What's new
  • If you were supposed to get an email from the forum but didn't (e.g. to verify your account for registration), email Wes at [email protected] or talk to me on Discord for help. Sometimes the server hits our limit of emails we can send per hour.
  • Get in our Discord chat! Discord.gg/stararmy
  • 📅 April 2024 is YE 46.3 in the RP.

Acceleration/Speed Update

Zack

Zack

Inactive Member
The problems are as follows:
Retconing is a pain,
Ships move absurdly fast,
A large portion of people don't understand acceleration,
A large portion of people don't understand space travel,
'Top Speed' as a measure for anything in space,
Being able to blow up a planet using a shuttlecraft,

I don't think there is any argument that these are problems. We've done speed retcons before but they have only replaced absurd speeds with slightly less but still quite absurd speeds. A lot of people don't understand how acceleration works nor can the be bothered with doing the math behind it. Finally, having established that it takes only a round of gameplay for a shuttle to go from stop to .4c, you can quickly do the math and figure out that a shuttle craft has enough kenetic energy to liquify the entire crust of a planet should someone decide they want to ram one with their shuttle.

The proposed solution: Using top speed as a measure of change in acceleration per round of RP much in the same way that DR is a measure of damage per round. Namely, a ship can change its speed by 1/10th of its top speed per round (with a corrisponding acceleration stat on starship tables, something like Speed per round: or Acceleration: #####km/r.

This would require no retcon (everything is already in place for this), it would allow ships to move realistically without anyone having to learn how acceleration works, and top speed starts to represent something a bit more realistic (a sort of abstraction of how much fuel/energy is avalible to the ship). This would also pave the way to a gradual speed reduction for ships without actually nerfing anything that is already in place.

Thoughts?
 
I disagree that some of what you call "problems" are actually problems, but as to the solution you offer ...

"Rounds" can be pretty nebulous. In Miharu, a "round" is essentially every time the GM posts responding to our actions. How do we define a "round"?

Also, you freely admit you're essentially just trying to smooth over the path toward a speed reduction, i.e. retcon. Again. Why should we support this if the point is just a retcon anyway?

Also, does anyone try to ram a shuttle into a planet? I'd like to see that.
 
The DR system is very nebulous too, but it makes sense to base things on 'rounds' or whatever because the DR system is also based on 'rounds' of whatever. This would give a standardized time for players to all figure out how fast they are going, what they are doing, how much damage they can deal ect. It is also open ended enough to allow later changes (like DR updates, definition of a round, and other more DnD style modifications if we choose to go that route.)

I'd also like to point out that this will make ships go slower, but it won't change any actual speeds. This means no retcon has to occur, anytime a character has said 'this can go at x-speed' they will still be correct. Just under this change how ships move in space will be far more realistic.

And yes, any character can destroy any planet provided they have a shuttle or power armor. Worse yet this isn't even up to GM interpretation, based on what has already been allowed in the setting. Currently there is no possible way to shoot down or stop an attack like this, it happens and in the fraction of a second it takes to occur there is really no opportunity to shoot down or otherwise stop the attack.

It is absurd, but that is because the speed rules for ships don't make any sense in the first place (again, top speed doesn't mean anything in space and is a completely useless measurement.). If you want me to start having the NMX run around and blow up planets using single power armored soldiers then by all means I'll start doing that.
 
This thread got off on the wrong foot. Whatever arguments gets brought in go through the Uso's filter of "I am right and you are all wrong". This is frankly a can of worm which is largely best left closed.

I see it very lacking in respect, and I suggest that if Uso wants to carry out an appeal that he makes it an intelligent and respectful one.

With these points considered, I recommend a thread lock.
 
Assuming a T8 Kuma shuttle weighs a little over a ton (1000 kilograms just to make the math easy) and traveling at its max speed (which we have established in the past takes only moments to reach) of ~1125000000 meters/second you end up with:

(1/2)(1000)(1125000000)^2 = 632812500000000000000 Jules (or ~6.2x 10^20 J)

A quick look at the boom table and you can see this clocks in as a little bit more than one metric ton of anti-matter or 43 Gigatons of energy. Though this isn't going to deathstar a planet it is going to be enough to wipe out a considerable amount of landmass, make that landmass glow, and cause a nuclear winter style event and this is a low balled estimate.

Just something to think about if you disagree about the speeds being high, and keep in mind the T8 is on the lower end of the spectrum when it comes to weight and speed.
 
And yet, I don't care.

From all I've ever experienced on SARP, ships at lightspeed don't crash into planets. There's a Star Wars-esque thing about planets that prevents them from crashing into planets at lightspeed, something about gravity or some such nonsense.

That hand-waving works good enough for me. Go ahead and have the NMX start ramming planets for all I care; other GMs prefer much more interesting interaction, it seems.
 
Uso, I think every player who is capable of flying a ship knows they have to get the proper authority to do it.

Player > GM > FM > Admin

I don't think it's going to happen very often.
 
So they have to always check in with the GM before they do anything?

The rules allow players to do this kind of thing, I'm suggesting we change them so they don't. After All GMs can't just say 'you're not allowed to shoot your gun' or 'you aren't allowed to fly your ship' because there is no reason for the characters to not do those things.

And honestly, you don't need approval from a GM to fly at full speeds.
 
You forget Uso that the GM IS THE LAW of the plot. The GM is the DM, he decides the fate of ALL ACTIONS that happens within HIS OR HER PLOT.

If it was not for this, a certain incident on a Nep ship which a player attempted to GODMOD his way to KILLING the entire ship would have resulted in not to fun fanfare.
 
I'll stick with what Scot says: GMs don't let ships crash into planets at full speed and waste everything. It's a bit lame, to say the least.

You want to do that, Uso, and prove the science of it all, go nuts. Other GMs, with players under them, can stick with what the current speeds. If a player wants to crash a ship into a planet at full speed and blow it up, it's up to the GM to figure out how well it works.

Or, as I said on the IRC, if the GM wants to play pure science, they can.
 
Player's Rights would say otherwise. Even if you were right, wouldn't it be better to have a rules set that at least mitigates these kinds of problems (by requiring acceleration time, which in turn gives some time for the offending shuttle/whatever to get shot down) than forcing the GM to intervene somehow every time?

What if a player wants to kill an enemy army by smashing into it with is power armor? Or blow up an entire enemy compound using that same armor instead of having to go inside? These are valid options for players and killing their creativity just makes this a game of the GM writing what happens.
 
The rules do not indicate that the player has the right to control the universe, only their character.

I have the right to maintain sole control over my character's actions
I have the right to maintain sole control over my character's development and nature.
If my character dies permanently, I have the right to create a character

etc.

A GM can kill the player off at a whim, however they cannot control what a player does with said character.

These rules are obviously in place so that no one "Puppets" your character unless the player hadn't posted in a long while, however do not say that the player has the right to veto a GM's decision

I have the right to refuse any roleplay that makes me uncomfortable, especially sexual or strongly violent role-play, without negative consequences on my character or myself.
I have the right to ask for a retcon or edit of the last RP session, if I feel my character was played incorrectly or left out at a vital time.

As you can see, these also do not allow the player to have full control over the plot to allow their character to do anything.
 
That is like saying if a GM hands a player a gun that is completely operation, he can force the player not to use it even if they want to fire it.

Flying a shuttle or power armor is such a simple action that you don't need GM approval, and at the speeds they currently accelerate at you can turn towards a planet and accelerate to full speed almost instantly, providing no chance to be shot down.

Even then, you'd be so close to the planet (or already in the atmosphere) that when your vehicle breaks apart it is still going fast enough to destroy that side of the planet.
 
Uso said:
Player's Rights would say otherwise. Even if you were right, wouldn't it be better to have a rules set that at least mitigates these kinds of problems (by requiring acceleration time, which in turn gives some time for the offending shuttle/whatever to get shot down) than forcing the GM to intervene somehow every time?

What if a player wants to kill an enemy army by smashing into it with is power armor? Or blow up an entire enemy compound using that same armor instead of having to go inside? These are valid options for players and killing their creativity just makes this a game of the GM writing what happens.
Click to expand...
GMs do things differently. Some let their players go entirely PvP, I bet, as you would like, Uso. Others act as chief editors of a story. Others are inbetween. It's up to the player to figure out how the GM works things.

If a player wants to do any of those things, the player likely could try. Depending on the GM, different things could happen based on that action.

I think you're not seeing players and GMs working as a team in order to create a good story. That's how I see it. You seem to take it as a more adversarial relationship. That's plausible, too.

I prefer to let players and GMs work that out together, instead of us pressing rules on them as to how it should work. Your supposed "speed update" falls into the category of "pressing rules on them" in my book.
 
FTL Speed, STL speed, DR, and other 'rules' are pressed on players too and for good reason. It makes the setting more accessible, easier to understand, easier to work with, and in every way better. Why not get rid of all the speed rules if you feel that they are restricting players and GMs? (rather, I don't think your 'pressing rules on players is a bad thing' logic really holds up here)

I fail to see how moving toward adding in acceleration is a bad thing. You can't even buy a car/motorcycle/whathaveyou today without hearing some stats like 0-60, cup holders, and the status of power windows.
 
Doshii Jun said:
I'll stick with what Scot says: GMs don't let ships crash into planets at full speed and waste everything. It's a bit lame, to say the least.

You want to do that, Uso, and prove the science of it all, go nuts. Other GMs, with players under them, can stick with what the current speeds. If a player wants to crash a ship into a planet at full speed and blow it up, it's up to the GM to figure out how well it works.

Or, as I said on the IRC, if the GM wants to play pure science, they can.
Click to expand...

I somewhat agree with Doshii on this that it truelly should be to the freedom of the GM.

Some GMs want their systems to stay the way they are without people crashing things. This is especially in the case of Azorea, which Fay worked months of planning and delicate research to make that system. Preserving the system intact is one of the few things he asks of the site, and for everything he done for it.

Still their is nothing to say someone like the mishu could use old broken starships as weapons.

Afterall they do have the https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=mi ... _of_fear...

whose to say it cannot start chucking starships when it runs out of rocks?
 
So wouldn't you want to have rules protecting your things from people blowing them up with their power armors instead of just hoping you'll get your way because that is how you think it should be?
 
I don't really like any of those rules either, Uso, but they've been established and there they are. Enough GMs use them to keep them around, and players like them.

I'm not in a position to "get rid of all" of them, but I'm flattered you think I am.

Directly, I feel it's just another rule and impediment to roleplay. If you like acceleration so much, you include it in your submissions. Why should everyone else?

No one's complaining about the problem but you, Zack, and I question your motives for doing so to begin with. Your love of arguing, having your way and preference for PvP are well known, and I feel you're proposing this in part to achieve at least some of those ends, especially PvP.

After all, if factions don't fight each other, why do we need to know how much damage things do across the entire RP? Let the FM and tech submitter figure those things out.
 
Doshii Jun said:
After all, if factions don't fight each other, why do we need to know how much damage things do across the entire RP? Let the FM and tech submitter figure those things out.
Click to expand...
That is a good point Doshii >>.
 
RPG-D RPGfix
Back
Top