Discussing Link Gate tech/purposes, Wormhole aspects

[Legix]

While I agree that we should be able to discuss things being canon or not, I have to agree that if someone is breaking setting fundamental rules, then it's really not a debate whether someone has a tag or not. A plot either de-canonizes that section, gets a changing on the rule to reflect new canon, or it can't be canon as a whole. Anime filler is fluff precisely because it breaks the norm of the setting, even if it's a great setting/element. If people want to have great RP, nothing stops them from making non-canon incursions and making things that wouldn't normally exist.

And they can honestly pound sand if they don't like it. Everyone should respect the setting's rules. It's precisely why I might WANT Interdiction, but I'd never make/use it because I want my plots to be canon. So I pound sand and sparingly gripe about it. But I sure as hell wouldn't break the rule and then flaunt it becoming canon.


That all aside, because this topic is ass and spawned from just more people trying to do whatever THEY want without caring for the overall setting (as far as I can tell, it's got to do with Zack doing something that is apparently against the rules). I've not seen it actually happen, but it genuinely had no interest here nor the rant about canon/non-canon.

This is about Toshiro's tech/gate. I'm not posting anything here because I've told him my thoughts on it, but I am posting here to be the sane voice that shouldn't HAVE to be me.

Stop the fighting about canon and non-canon and discuss the technology purely in relation to his submission/idea/article.

 

[Wes]

The IC restriction against FTL inside star systems is for the protection of those systems. If you could create a wormhole on a planet, with the other end connected to a sun, that would obliterate the planet. It would also be something that couldn't be defended against. For the sake of keeping our detailed planets like Nepleslia and Yamatai around, I think wormholes should be limited to use in deep space.

 

[Toshiro]

Alright. Then I can set it up so that this system works, but still respect that limitation. By just ensuring that one end is stabilized inside the ship, and requiring that the other end respect this rule or also be stabilized and inside the ship (for internal plumbing purposes), I can knock out its combat use inside such situations (aside from providing plasma inside the ship for conventional main guns) while still letting the system work to power ship systems and making escape pods and SS Pods more survivable. Adding a 5 meter diameter size restriction to even this level of protection will help further.

Also, I am actually glad to see the discussion about how it would fit in the rules, and even the related canon vs. non-canon (provided it doesn't derail the topic to excess); because as long as its worked out here ahead of time, that means those discussions may be less likely to happen later than if I just rushed to submit it. Already I've amended the article to reflect the content of these posts, and will be continuing to do so.

 

[Primitive Polygon]

Not to just dump Freespacers into the conversation or anything, but it is worth noting that the Ley Lines are indeed an expansive and functional system that's very similar, and are capable of transporting entire starships. There are even mentions of developing miniaturized versions on the wiki, so that they can be used for things like transporting individual payloads directly to a weapon system on a ship. The White Lament mothership had one as a plot device, so, just so we are clear, it's actually my fault this was used in one of Zack's plots a while back.

Personally, I think the best way to control them is to;

• Make it so they require massive amounts of power, that would take even Aether systems a long time to accumulate.
• Be made of rare materials, at least rare enough that the faction owner should note down the location of every device, rather than just bringing them up mid-plot.
• The idea of them not operating within hill spheres should also include the influence of CFS systems, as well as other gate systems.
• Absolutely require a gate at both ends, zero exceptions. This includes the necessary power requirements, regardless of sending or receiving matter.

Created the Astral Locksmiths specifically to guard this sort of technology, but it does make sense that other factions would have stumbled upon it by themselves.

 

[Toshiro]

Those limitations on the larger versions could explain the 5 meter limit on this submission. Materials needed for the larger versions, energy consumption with size scaling, and stability concerns.

 

[Primitive Polygon]

Hum... It still allows for the projection of a gate to something which is not a gate, the heart of a star(s)...

Perhaps this should just be a question of usage, rather than if it's physically possible? Like, are we talking mega spoilers, if you want to tell us what this is actually for?

 

[raz]

The IC restriction against FTL inside star systems is for the protection of those systems. If you could create a wormhole on a planet, with the other end connected to a sun, that would obliterate the planet. It would also be something that couldn't be defended against. For the sake of keeping our detailed planets like Nepleslia and Yamatai around, I think wormholes should be limited to use in deep space.

Wait, you said IC restriction?

As in melting a planet with a sun via wormhole is a conceivable, do-able thing in-character that factional governments are (or possibly can be) worried about?

I don't really mind the rule, but that's a kind of hilariously specific hypothetical situation that doesn't even seem necessarily achievable by anybody IC.

 

[Toshiro]

The intended primary usage at this point is to siphon plasma from the heart of a star or quasar into a ship so it can use that plasma for various things including power, STL plasma engines, and STL plasma guns including a main gun. While an old school "Link Device" weapon is possible, it'd only work outside of a Hill Sphere, period, where combat is rarer.

Secondary purpose is to rapidly deliver escape pods and SS pods from inside a ship to the outside of a star system/Hill Sphere for emergency FTL departure.

Tertiary purpose would be mining stellar plasma for materials created by nucleosynthesis in a plasma state.

Quaternary purpose is scientific research, such as peeking into the heart of black holes. Not sure what the consequences would be though.


The justification for being able to enter the heart of a star is that it's the center of the hill sphere and a point of gravitational equilibrium. Thus, the wormhole can go there but can only be routed to the inside of a ship or outside the star system. In certain cases with multiple stars in a single system close together, even this isn't possible.

 

[Toshiro]

I've made further edits and more explicit elaborations on the limitations of the use of the system. I've also included OOC commentary to the bottom of the wiki article in the "OOC Notes" area in this regard. It has identical IC and OOC limitations. It is also possible to escape directly to a waiting vessel outside the Hill Sphere/Star System, but only if the target's barriers are down, it's not at FTL, it's not using any CDD propulsion or stealth the exact location is known, etc. It also lets escape pods and the SS Pod be deployed without even obviously leaving the hull.

Combat use, however, is successfully disabled within a Hill Sphere/star system.

Any other concerns before I submit, or anything I've overlooked?

I'd like to thank everyone for participating as well. Your feedback has heavily influenced the article in ways I believe are for the better, and rendered it into a more balanced and less abuse-prone system.

 

[Nashoba]

Toshiro, I see no problem with your proposal. Especially since the HSC have a The Transfer Vortex which is a short range wormhole system for transferring personnel and cargo.

 

[Toshiro]

Ah, I see. These have different purposes and technologies, but do have at least similar scales. The restrictions are also different, but functionally have results that hinder their combat abuse while catering to their differing roles. Yours likely work within a Star System/Hill Sphere without restriction, mine can move with the vessel and go through the shields of the vessel employing it (though those shields alone and no others).

I also realized my system could be used to deploy probes or take long range sensor peeks from outside star systems, so that was also included, though it could cause IC consequences if used to spy on a different nation's holdings or other purposes. Still not a combat use.

 

[raz]

Toshiro wanted me to come here and post a note.

Wes posted in chat that he thought it was decided that a Link Siphon couldn't work. Toshiro contends that there is no force of gravity exerted upon matter at the center of a celestial body as an explanation as to why it will work. I think the words were "actually zero gravity." I disagree with Toshiro's assessment and don't believe "zero g at the center of celestial bodies" is scientifically supported.

As a further note, I don't particularly care if we allow this or not. Just didn't think we should start making up more dubiously-credible scientific excuses when we could just say "space magic!"

 

[Toshiro]

Submissions require some technological feasibility, so I can't simply do that. The structure of the tech is also important because it creates the IC limitations I require to match the OOC limitations I want to create.

Shall I change "actually zero gravity" to "functionally emulate interstellar micro-gravity"? Is that suitable? There is a bit of undefined play in just how much gravity that is.

Wes' concerns seem to be more geared toward using the tech to make a sustained wormhole to use against a planet, which is a functional impossibility with the tech.