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Faction Rights

We all know what rights factions have. You talk to the FM first.

This document is overly litigious for the purpose of ensuring "faction rights."
 
That's already the way it works though :s
 
Rules require punishments. Are we prepared to go that route?

I understand the frustration of faction managers who want codified rules, on the wiki, that they can lean on and use against GMs who seemingly overstep their bounds.

I remain of the mindset that GMs are the principal entertainers of players on this site, and therefore should have the most power. Fred's "factions as PCs is wrong" theory also holds true here, and these "rules" reinforce that.

Yes, I speak not just as a GM but as a co-FM. I'm perfectly happy losing power as an FM to maintain freedom as a GM.
 
Doshii Jun said:
I remain of the mindset that GMs are the principal entertainers of players on this site, and therefore should have the most power. Fred's "factions as PCs is wrong" theory also holds true here, and these "rules" reinforce that.
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Yes. That. Took the words out of my mouth (or typing fingers, whatever). It's definitely the worst disease SARP is presently suffering from.
 
I understand what you two are saying but you are missing the point.

For starters, I don't agree with GM's having more power than an FM (Given that FM's are in-charge of running an ENTIRE faction, while GM's ONLY have to worry about their plot). By this, I mean that they shouldn't be allowed to do whatever they want with another faction, this is espically true when a GM decides to misprotray the other faction.

All we FM's ask, is that you take the time to communicate and talk to use FM's before you use the assets that we've created for our faction - but also - so that we can help you understand how those assets would function.

Taking the military ship of one faction, and using that ship to attack your plot-ship, without even bothering to talk to that faction's manager. Or taking a group of soldiers, and doing the same thing, will lead to drama and problems.

I remain of the mindset that GMs are the principal entertainers of players on this site, and therefore should have the most power. Fred's "factions as PCs is wrong" theory also holds true here, and these "rules" reinforce that.
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Not true Doshii, and it really does sadden me that you think this way.

You're right, faction's are not PC's... however, that doesn't mean that a GM should have a right to do whatever he wants with the faction, possibly even going as far as going against how that faction operates culturally.

And the rules do not reinforce it, all these rules do is help ensure that FM's for factions are talked with so that they can discuss how certain assets can be used. In a way, this also helps ensure that no one can take military assets from one faction (Say, a Nep taking Yam military assets) and using those Yam military assets to attack the Gartagans in an effort to try and create a war.
 
Kyle said:
it helps to ensure that FM's are talked with before anything in our factions are used in ways that don't conform to the culures of those factions.
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This is already the rule in-fact. We don't need to codify it with something that can be lawyered and laboriously pointed to at every turn.
 
It does indeed hold true. So we went ahead and made some hard rules.

As far as enforcement goes? Yea we have gone that route and enforced rules in the past so Doshii the answer to that questions is: We already have.
 
raz said:
Kyle said:
it helps to ensure that FM's are talked with before anything in our factions are used in ways that don't conform to the culures of those factions.
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This is already the rule in-fact. We don't need to codify it with something that can be lawyered and laboriously pointed to at every turn.
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And in fact, that's exactly why we don't need something like this.
 
What you guys fail to understand is that by adding a faction into the setting, the true purpose of it is to add another element for plot roleplayers to enjoy. The medium of that narration is the Game Master.

A race after being introduced is not something static that should be protected at all cost by its FM so that it remains something matching his vision. No. Too late, it's submitted. It's part of SARP and both bad and good things can happen to it.

It's not anything rigid either where the FMs word is law - kind of like people turn to me for proper depictal of the Mishhuvurthyar/Umbrals, but I don't own them: people just respect my ideas on them. They could very well do thier own thing and/or not heed what I say. I could disagree, but it doesn't mean their action would be oh-so-wrong.

There's another point which is that when a GM typically decides to use NPCs of another faction... he is essentially taking ownership of them. He's grabbing the asset you put at SARP's disposal, and helping fleshing it out. He's taking interest in the work, and interpreting it in his own way.

My position on other factions so far is pretty much to not touch them even with a 10' long pole because there's so much fscking overprotective drama going on with them. Something was created, but then the creators are so overprotective of their vision that they don't want to see it interpreted and used without thier exact ruling on how it should go. Exception absolutely cannot happen because somehow all of them have mystical hive minds keeping them precisely in line with the expectations of The Great Creator FM dude.

That stringent adherence, combined with the FM's apparent need to run the 'face of thier faction' on the SARP's political sphere along with handling whatever military is exactly what makes them into giant player characters.

Also, expectations on getting any faction-centric playerbase? Don't. Seriously, don't go there. There are repeated examples of how this typically does not work consistently/long-term. Getting butthurt over your creation not getting a playerbase is nothing else than your expectations having run too high. If you manage to make something look cool, it might captivate people enough to want to jump on the bandwagon while it lasts (like a Melisson-centric mishhu plot might've had, from what I've heard). But it's never a guarantee.

I honestly think we should change the guidelines for faction creation to incite future submitters in very well damn clearly knowing that what they are creating is to be easily used, accessible, interpreted and *gasp* disposable. In roleplay, if one-shots are good and strike interest, it's likely that people will want to see more. But right now the creation of new aliens civilizations seems to require entirely too much effort - which in turns puts the ego of people also on the line and heavily raises any emotional stakes they have in it.

This really needs to be fixed.
 
This is not about any level of butt hurt. This set up is designed as hard factoid to look at that away there are no misunderstandings.

The whole purpose of it is to ensure thet GMs and FMs speak to each other about using sarp elements so that there are no inconsistencies in the canon. We are talking about the protection of the singular Canon that is in place.

As far as factions. Star Army is a faction too. I am sure You would take offense if your ideas suddenly got railroaded with out somebody even approaching the subject with you.
 
I am basically against this because I dislike codified rules when we have gentlemen's agreements that work just fine and have worked. Rules written down just give people something to point to when they don't get their way, even when those rules may not specifically protect something. We should continue using common sense, good judgment, and working together.

Ira said:
As far as factions. Star Army is a faction too. I am sure You would take offense if your ideas suddenly got railroaded with out somebody even approaching the subject with you.
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Happens all the time. Wes doesn't even like the things that some of his faction's GMs do but Yamatai deals with it. Factions are setting elements. FMs have a right to protect their creations to a certain extent so that they may grow into organic things that everyone uses.
 
Happens all the time. Wes doesn't even like the things that some of his faction's GMs do but Yamatai deals with it. Factions are setting elements. FMs have a right to protect their creations to a certain extent so that they may grow into organic things that everyone uses.
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But the thing is, GM's do not have the right to violate that factions military policies, culture, or regulations JUST to tell a good story. An example; using a pacifist faction's defense forces as an aggressor in your plot when it wouldn't make any sense to begin with, you'd be violating canon then.

Now, if that faction has pirate groups, gangs, or terrorist groups then I can agree that those can be used - for the most part - without consulting an FM. But if you plan on using military assets or civilian assets, then you talk to a GM.
 
Kyle said:
But the thing is, GM's do not have the right to violate that factions military policies, culture, or regulations JUST to tell a good story.
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I vehemently disagree with the bolded part.
 
raz said:
Kyle said:
But the thing is, GM's do not have the right to violate that factions military policies, culture, or regulations JUST to tell a good story.
Click to expand...

I vehemently disagree with the bolded part.
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Then what's the point of creating cultures, regulations or policies for a faction if a GM isn't going to follow them? We may as well just throw out all of Yamatai's, Neplesia, Gartagens, etc.... policies, as they obviously mean nothing.

I'm sorry, but telling a good story does not mean you misrepresent or violate the canon of a faction.
 
So if I had a good idea for a story and it violated Yamatai's established canon...it would be okay do do so?

*Edit*

Also this is not just against preventing GMs from doing things with out discussing them, this is also geared towards anybody, other FMs, even players.
 
Kyle said:
Then what's the point of creating cultures, regulations or policies for a faction if a GM isn't going to follow them? We may as well just throw out all of Yamatai's, Nepleslia, Gartagens, etc.... policies, as they obviously mean nothing.

I'm sorry, but telling a good story does not mean you misrepresent or violate the canon of a faction.
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Okay. Does that mean as SAINT manager I have carte blanche to go into 44th Fireteam, Sakura II, Byakuren, 21st Squadron, and Luca's plot — all of which I have have been lead to understand have significant SAINT elements — and scold people on the things I personally believe are done in a way that misrepresents Star Army Intelligence? Should I be able to declare those things un-canonical?

I am aware that an organization manager isn't the same as an FM but the principle is identical.

The answer is "no."
 
We need to be considerate of the fact that all plots are part of one big campaign and what happens in one plot will affect other plots.

A GMs is responsible for making sure his portrayal of the universe meshes with the site canon, and FMs are responsible for maintaining what a faction's canon is.

If an FM and GM are fighting for dominance, something's wrong. There has to be some give and take, and communication. That's why we have plot planning threads.
 
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