Ghoul-B

[Kilian]

Oh? I didn't know that the damper field already had an approved version here. Don't mind my post then. It was simply the fact that I have met the 'damper field' in different sci-fi areas in the same meaning I explained above. I guess the source of this whole damper field issue is not here then. Sorries Uso.

 

[Zack]

sok, just check your facts next time. Just because it works a certain way in star wars dosen't mean it really works that way. I read your posts they were just... wrong.

 

[Karma Mechanic]

In the sense of what characters do with it, no it does not have to be justified. If people won't use it in RP then it won't be used, simple as that.

No, there must be IC justification aswell; and this is nothing new by the way.

The description you gave says the weapon was added to give the ship full 360 degree protection when landing, though the weapon is far less practical and much more complicated than many other things that could be used for that task.

In response to both you and Zakalwe, it is a contridiction to say a government/police force doesn't care at all for it citizens, to justify a ship made to have non-leathal weapons; governments/polices forces that don't care about citizens don't bother to have non-leathal weapons in the first place.

Additionally, if you want the ship approved you could change to established tech for now, and begin a new approval request thread for the weapon, if you are so desperate to push through a new technology.

Ontop of this the people saying that it won't be used are people who aren't playing in Nepleslia and who don't have a say in what they would use.

I don't belive this exclusive attitude of yours is in the spirit of the site. Attacking other peoples positions, because they happen to be playing in a plot at the moment that may be differnent from yours isn't right; If something has to do with the RP at all, all players opinions are valid reagardless of what stance they hold on the particular subject. Yours isn't the only important opinion in this(or any) discussion, everyones is.

Oh? I didn't know that the damper field already had an approved version here. Don't mind my post then. It was simply the fact that I have met the 'damper field' in different sci-fi areas in the same meaning I explained above. I guess the source of this whole damper field issue is not here then. Sorries Uso.

Please refrian from disscussing ethier any further in this thread as they are off-topic. If you would like to continue disscussions on the particular topic, it would be very much appreciated if do so in an alternate thread. Then if any points do become valid to this discussion you can reference them with a hyperlink, thanks. ^_^

 

[Zack]

My point is you really aren't in a position to say what the nepleslian goverment would or would not do. Let the corporations and the goverment worry about how they are going to sell/use the ship.

If there aren't any arguments against the tech of the ship other than those that should be carried out in character then I'd like to have this approved.

 

[Fred]

Okay okay, time to put an end to this. You guys are going in circle.

I myself can't seem to see why that Penrose disruptor couldn't make the cut as a type of disabling weapon as it is presented in terms of effect. I haven't seen anyone (or noticed, sorry) give a visual description of what it looks like when in use, so, I'll just assume if fires is continuous electric blue beam. If my mental image is wrong, by all means, correct me.

Now, this could possibly be replaced by the scalar cannon, but scalar cannons have hazards of their own, which include frying nerves and making ammo cook off (though arguably this could be a functionality, not a side-effect). The dangers would be there and whatever IC implications would still be valid.

Regardless... with the turn this discussion has taken, it seems the prevalent concern isn't quite what the feasibility of the weapon, but rather if it would be used in play for Nepleslia's police force. I myself believe that even though Uso is stressing that IC stuff would be roleplayed out... it's actually produced by Geshrinari Shipyards, which - up to my knowledge - no one really has control on.

I believe by this point it should be either for Tom or Wes to decide if the said ship variant and it's weaponry will make the cut, given what they feel Geshrinari Shipyards can produce and what the Nepleslian police would be allowed to use ICly.

Additionally, I haven't seen the Penrose disrupter approved anywhere. Perhaps this ghoul variant could be equipped with already approved technology and then, when you can come up with the sort of weaponry you'd want (as presented in the contribution boards), you could make another variant.

 

[Zack]

The area of effect would look slightly blue from blue shift but that is about it. I'll edit that into the discription.

 

[Karma Mechanic]

Okay okay, time to put an end to this. You guys are going in circle.

I myself can't seem to see why that Penrose disruptor couldn't make the cut as a type of disabling weapon as it is presented in terms of effect. I haven't seen anyone (or noticed, sorry) give a visual description of what it looks like when in use, so, I'll just assume if fires is continuous electric blue beam. If my mental image is wrong, by all means, correct me.

Now, this could possibly be replaced by the scalar cannon, but scalar cannons have hazards of their own, which include frying nerves and making ammo cook off (though arguably this could be a functionality, not a side-effect). The dangers would be there and whatever IC implications would still be valid.

Regardless... with the turn this discussion has taken, it seems the prevalent concern isn't quite what the feasibility of the weapon, but rather if it would be used in play for Nepleslia's police force. I myself believe that even though Uso is stressing that IC stuff would be roleplayed out... it's actually produced by Geshrinari Shipyards, which - up to my knowledge - no one really has control on.

I believe by this point it should be either for Tom or Wes to decide if the said ship variant and it's weaponry will make the cut, given what they feel Geshrinari Shipyards can produce and what the Nepleslian police would be allowed to use ICly.

I'm going to have to disagree, and say that the discussion isn't over yet, my comments so far have mostly concerned with the weapon in the context of its use on a police craft. I was hoping to avoid having to get into the physics at the current time, because it seems people often just kind of stare at me blankly and say "I really don't understand, so lets go with SoD" when I do, to which I then have the reaction of -_-# . If everyone isn't going to be sated until they get this, I will post it then. You'll have to excuse me for at least a short while though, as translating this will take a little while.

Additionally, I haven't seen the Penrose disrupter approved anywhere. Perhaps this ghoul variant could be equipped with already approved technology and then, when you can come up with the sort of weaponry you'd want (as presented in the contribution boards), you could make another variant.

Yes, I sujested the same thing in my last post a few hours ago...

My point is you really aren't in a position to say what the nepleslian goverment would or would not do.

I hope by that you don't mean that you think you are the only person that has ever read the Nepleslian forum, we don't just post JP's to up our post counts. The way I read that, you imply that everyone else in the forum is ignorant to the entirety of Nepleslia.

 

[Zack]

Nepleslian military and police policy would be determined by either Emperor Blackman or Admiral Davis, both of which are played by Tom, not you.

So if there are still no objections to the tech aspects of the ship...

 

[Karma Mechanic]

Nepleslian military and police policy would be determined by either Emperor Blackman or Admiral Davis, both of which are played by Tom, not you.

So if there are still no objections to the tech aspects of the ship...

I'm starting to believe you don't read my posts at all:

I was hoping to avoid having to get into the physics at the current time, because it seems people often just kind of stare at me blankly and say "I really don't understand, so lets go with SoD" when I do, to which I then have the reaction of -_-# . If everyone isn't going to be sated until they get this, I will post it then. You'll have to excuse me for at least a short while though, as translating this will take a little while.

I do object to the tech of the ship, and I am working on a translation of my thoughts, please read posts before you start declaring yourself the victor of a discussion. -_-;

 

[Zack]

Then... post... it...

You can't just say I have an argument, not post it, and expect it to have an effect.

 

[Cora]

Active Denial Field: The ship contains an ADF system on the hull that uses microwaves to stimulate pain receptors in the body, forcing targets to turn away and flee. Very effective against un armored targets but not intended for combat use.
Primary Purpose: anti-personnel
Secondary Purpose: sensor disruption/
Damage: Less than lethal.
Range: <1 mile
Rate of Fire: continuous.
Payload: Effectively unlimited, so long as the ship provides power.

I have an objection with this. Microwaves cannot selectivly active pain recptors.

 

[Karma Mechanic]

Then... post... it...

You can't just say I have an argument, not post it, and expect it to have an effect.

again please read... my posts

You'll have to excuse me for at least a short while though, as translating this will take a little while.

really,... it's been like 5 minutes, -_-;

 

[Zack]

Microwaves penitrating only a short distance into the skin will trigger the pain receptors and do minimal damage, creating a sensation like standing way to close to an oven.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System


And you've had sense June 2nd to post it.

 

[Cora]

...Ok. so you're going to burn people to make them stop attacking...

Yeah...

 

[Zakalwe]

Nothing wrong with that. Several already approved technologies use Active Denial technology.

 

[Karma Mechanic]

Ok here is what you've all been waiting for ~_^, my arguments specifically regarding the tech. I've tried to keep the arguments accessible to everyone so you don't have to be a theoretical physicist to understand everything allowing everyone to enjoy its creamy noughty center ^_^.


Firstly, concerning the theory of a quantum-foam made up of virtual particles (which I will get into in a moment) contains various flaws which render it useless. Specifically a model in which pairs of spontaneously generated particle pairs existed wouldn't allow normal mater to exist in the forms it does, because one half of the virtual particle pair could annihilate a particle that wasn't part of the original pair, causing the rapid annihilation of not only a few circuits or DNA strands but of anything above the sub-atomic in the universe; and I'm quite sure I exist, so I don't think suspension of disbelief is keeping me from being annihilated.

If complete annihilation isn't enough to sway someone's faith in the theory, they should also know this theory leaves us with a spontaneous generation of an entire universe worth of these virtual particles. Unfortunately, this leads to the problem of ‘wouldn't a number of particles like that also have mass?' the answer is yes they would have mass!, and ‘wouldn't they have other effects, just like all other matter?' yes that's right too! This is an unsolved problem, because if the model has these virtual particles, they still must have real effects, you know those effects that we have in the most fundamental laws of physics, which when the theory is compared to actual data it fails. The predicted value for the energy of these virtual particles would be either infinite or an extremely large number, which isn't the case when compared to scientific measurements, when compared the predicted to observed values give a discrepancy on the order of 240 orders of magnitude (which is even beyond insanely off!). In the theory, with the energy value as it is predicted, implies a massive gravity field that is not at all observed Whats the conclusion from this point? That if there was a sea of virtual particles, there would be a number of observable effects, which isn't the case, the difference is beyond anything reasonable, in effect making the theory somewhat less credible than the FSM (may his noodly appendage be upon you ^_^ ).

Now concerning virtual particles specifically, virtual particles are normally used as a simplification device in Feynman diagrams (you know when your teacher says "Things don't really work quite this way, but doing this saves us from having to write a large number of advanced mathematical formulasâ€

 

[Tom]

I'm not extremely concerned with the IC ethics behind this weaponry, as, if people are reading the Nepleslian forums (particularly the later sections of the Street War), things are spiralling out of control.

Not to metagame the future or anything, but since the government and military (acting each on their own, oddly enough) simultaneously managed to anger both the major gangs of Nepleslia, a need for brute force suppression does not seem out of the ordinary.

My real concern is that Geshrinari Shipyards is the company making this weapon. Since the recent legislation by the senate directly placed them and Zen armaments at odds with the government, I don't see a reason why GS would make this ship. Not to speak on Wes' behalf, but it's my belief that Yamatai (since it has very strong control over its internal matters) would not need this kind of ship.

This is a ship that I see NAMs (I WILL write the damn company up) building.

With that, I'll let ya'll argue over the physics of the weapons on the ship (that's not my forte).

 

[Zack]

Well because virtual particles are used elsewhere in this site and are even supported by Seven Hawking with his theory on hawking radiation and supported by modern quantum mechanics I will have to disagree with your first statement. A phenomenon like this would hardly destroy the universe.

The weapon also does not create virtual particles it creates an environment where the threshold of quantum foam is increased. The energy release would be from the quantum foam rather than from the ship so the energy requirements are hardly a concern.

The Penrose interpretation of the universe holds that gravity is what holds things into one state of reality. Particles on the quantum level are far to small to be anchored to one reality so they experience the effects of quantum foam. This is far more believable than the current Copenhagen interpretation which holds that something doesn't exist until it is observed and as Einstein said, "I'd like to think the moon is there even when I'm not looking at it.â€

 

[Fred]

Scribbles, I'm going to go ~_~# on you. I tried reading. I got to the second paragraph. Then I gave up XD

I'd point Tom's post out though. I think it outlines one particular, important element: Maybe the Nepleslians should be making their own ships if they have an organisation that takes care of that. He also settled the IC approval element, I think (As I consider NAM to belong to Tom).

Thanks for your input Tom.

 

[Cora]

The Penrose interpretation of the universe holds that gravity is what holds things into one state of reality. Particles on the quantum level are far to small to be anchored to one reality so they experience the effects of quantum foam. This is far more believable than the current Copenhagen interpretation which holds that something doesn't exist until it is observed and as Einstein said, "I'd like to think the moon is there even when I'm not looking at it.â€