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Rejected Submission International Currency Exchange Update

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FrostJaeger

Chief Parakeet
Banned Member
For Reviewers:
  • Contains Unapproved Sub-Articles? Nope.
  • Contains New Art? Nope.
  • Previously Submitted? Nope.
  • Changelog: Link
  • Checklist Requested? Yes.
 
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Edto Xar'Sivaree said:
The Vekimen have an economy page that indicates their value. 10 scal to one DA. Could the page be updated to match that page please.

https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=wip:faction:vekimen_defensive_task_force:economy

For reference.
Click to expand...

A faction that...
...isn't going to have a 1:20 KS:Scal exchange rate, @Edto Xar'Sivaree, because that would be akin to saying that a United States dollar is equivalent to 20 Congolese francs.
 
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I agree with Frost. Especially given his argument and the fact that the page the Scal exchange rate is based on has not yet been approved.

It seems a good opportunity to provide advance feedback on something that's currently a work-in-progress.
 
An Economy is based on an amount of Valuable Good, ((Gold, Oil, Food, Etc Etc)), and the amount of physical Currency the faction makes.

Say the VDTF has... 4 million KS worth of gold, and they use that to back their dollar, and only print 80 million Scal.

The Scal would be worth 1:20 KS to Scal.

That is how a dollar works.

This is why Germany went into a massive recession after WWI and the Mark became worthless. Because they just printed so many marks that they didn't have the backing for that the currency inflated rapidly.

Thus, a currency is worth whatever an FM says it is worth, because they can decide how much currency the faction distributed. This is why it is Illegal in canada to store money outside a bank. Because it removes the money from circulation and the government cant keep track of it, so they claim it as lost or destroyed, and print more money to replace it to try and keep the dollar steady. Then you put that money back into circulation via purchasing things or putting it into a bank account, and the currency inflates.

As a note, Wes himself told me in the past, that I can actually sell the mining rights to the planets in my system, which means that my system itself has a value. I can back my currency with my system, and give that there are in fact, 0.0041% of Yamatais population, I only need 0.0041% of actual currency. So if I have several BILLION KS worth in my system given resources and the like, I could theoretically only print 0.0041% of the currency. so if I have 20 billion ks, I could print 820,000 Scale. That means that a Vekimen would have the same Number of Scal as the average Yamataian Citizen has KS in theory.

So that would be 820,000 scal being worth 20 billion KS... 24,390.24 KS to 1 Scal.
 
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Just giving my two cents, but while I do think it'd be a struggle for them to retain a 1:20 ratio with KS unless they had more resources, I also don't see it actually being a problem. Technically most currency in the setting is digital, but also no one keeps track of how much is in circulation, and most transactions are calculated in KS or DA anyway, so I can't really see it doing much to effect the site, cause 1:20 or 1:100 it is still the weakest currency out of the factions and there's plenty of room for any new factions to come up in between.

I'm more concerned about why the Pact's being marked as not being able to have international transactions because of no valuation of KS and DA. I don't really follow all that's going on on that front, but a scan over their pages and I couldn't find anything saying they refused to valuate the KS and DA. Also simply that's not how international transactions work. Even if there was no valuation, if they wanted to interact with a different nation, that nation would decide how much they think the currency is worth.

Edit(Hopefully before approval): I also think that part is being a little heavy handed, cause I know not all factions or corporations were asked if they were going to do business with the Pact. <.<
 
Yea. I can’t really sign off in this. Because there is no collaboration between any of the faction managers on this. It has just been made and I don’t care for the way this is being just submitted with out any care or discussion, or actual input.

Secondly we aren’t allowed to even change the article to account for economic growth or decline? What?

Also while economics is complex, money value is generally defined by how much money is in circulation.

Suggestions: the faction managers should have a discussion on how we do the economy.
Having it written in stone needs to change as economies will by nature fluctuate. Also it should be stipulated if the economy is a backed economy or a trust economy. That would also be a measure for the value of currency.

All in all economy is at best fluff people rarely write about.


For now I will simply revamp my own economic page to define it better.
 
Syaoran said:
Just giving my two cents, but while I do think it'd be a struggle for them to retain a 1:20 ratio with KS unless they had more resources, I also don't see it actually being a problem. Technically most currency in the setting is digital, but also no one keeps track of how much is in circulation, and most transactions are calculated in KS or DA anyway, so I can't really see it doing much to effect the site, cause 1:20 or 1:100 it is still the weakest currency out of the factions and there's plenty of room for any new factions to come up in between.
Click to expand...

I added some to my post, sorry if that's against the rules but afterthoughts and funny idea's come when you least expect it. I at least got a chuckle from my 24k KS to 1 Scal idea.

That piece of paper in your wallet that says "In God we Trust" and has a number and an important political figure on the back? It's worthless. It is physically worthless. What is worth something, is the federal reserve of gold and other resources, as well as, more importantly, the economic confidence of the country, given the american dollar is a fiat dollar that isn't fully backed by resources.

Now. I could easily make the Scal a dollar backed ENTIRELY by resources. Easily. I just have to say its backed by resources. My Scal is backed by resources. Then all I need to do is figure out how much all those resources are worth in KS. Then, I take that number, and multiply it by 20. Then I say the Komodo Government prints that number of Scal.

Honestly, I have a population of ~100,000, with, by right of first contact, my suzerainty with the Union, and all that other fun IC and OOC business, an entire system worth of resources.

Your average Vekimen is hilariously rich compared to your average ANYONE IN THE SETTING, with the same level of distribution, if it werent for the Government keeping the vast majority of that wealth in storage, and out of the public's hands. If the VDTF held the same ratio of currency as what I assume Yamatai does, and distributed the rest among the population of Vekimen, you would have Vekimen maing it rain on the DAILY.

This is why money is weird.

VERY long story short

Unless requested edits are made, I do not approve this as the FM of the Vekimen. 1:20 or I do not Approve what I have that right to do so over. This is an indication of the value of the average value of my dollar, not the worth of my faction. I will not approve a number I do not personally set for the value of my money, and this does not extend to the worth of my faction, which is the faction backing said dollar via with Confidence or with Tangible value through resources of any kind, the latter being directed by resource value, and the former being dictated by how much confidence other factions have in the VDTF.
 
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The most surprising thing is that the Gartagen Union has the sector's second most valuable currency.

As to the Vekimen: they should obviously have a currency valued below other factions (since every other faction has multiple systems or has a preexisting civilization within their one), but a quick glance at the chart itself gives me the impression that they're Bolivia-tier. And I think that's the wrong impression for players to get from an article like this.

Maybe ease up on the low valuation. Even if the value of a scal increased by half of what it currently stands at, readers will still see that the Vekimen are a less resource rich faction right now while not needlessly inflating their national buying power.
 
Arieg - Lord of the NTSE-Today at 3:10 PM
Anywho.
Basically the KS is the perfect economic weapon.
Because changing its value up or down won't matter to the host economy.
Aka Yamatai.
Tis why the Pact considers it worthless.
To them its a weapon.
Click to expand...
As per his own words in Discord. Hope it helps provide a reason, @Syaoran, as I also have little idea or knowledge on any of this.
 
Edto Xar'Sivaree said:
Your average Vekimen is hilariously rich compared to your average ANYONE IN THE SETTING, with the same level of distribution, if it werent for the Government keeping the vast majority of that wealth in storage, and out of the public's hands. If the VDTF held the same ratio of currency as what I assume Yamatai does, and distributed the rest among the population of Vekimen, you would have Vekimen maing it rain on the DAILY.
Click to expand...

I would advise against making claims as to how much wealth your faction's people have compared to others <.< Not only does it muddle the point, but it also stirs up a lot of argument, as this is something that can't be clearly quantified because there isn't enough information on the site for any faction to really tell how much the average person has in assets.

Legix said:
As per his own words in Discord. Hope it helps provide a reason, @Syaoran, as I also have little idea or knowledge on any of this.
Click to expand...
While that is telling, that also doesn't make the Pact currency non exchangeable. Because there are several other currencies. Even if they claimed "No other currency has value" as Edto said, money is backed by gold in the reserves, so it would still have value. Even -still- it would also be about how much the other nations perceive the pact currency as being worth(within reason of it's circulation and backing). It wouldn't just become a worthless currency unless all the nations specifically said that they will not deal in it, even if they called the KS worthless.
 
Well, I don't believe "I do not approve what I have the right to, I am approached and asked what I think is right." Implies I am up for discussion. I for a fact know this chart will never change, and thus chart is value of a dollar, not value of my faction as a whole.

Honestly, I have heard multiple times of frost approaching people and asking about their money. I was never approached so this chart doesn't use my input period.

I do not approve it as FM of Vekimen until a later date, or until my own requested edits are made.
 
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Eh, my beef with this is the lack of consultation with faction managers on the subject.

I also don’t care for the way people can edit information on the article about their faction.
 
If you would like to change the "Constitutional Dominion of Ersetu Currency" header to something more general about non-convertible currencies and include the Kudhacari then I won't complain. But I won't feel left out if you don't. Any chance at free wiki backlink publicity is great, though ^^;
 
I was originally going to write a JägerBomb™, but I'm tired, so here's a tl;dr:
 
@Wes can you weight in about the conversion rates in relation to your faction?

Also, I don't see any debates in here about the merits of one faction's currency compared to another's going far unless Wes weights in to establish - without question - how that stuff would be like.

Otherwise this article might be better not existing, or only including elements from factions that do happen to be agreeable to it.
 
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