Making Star Army More Alien/Diverse

[Wes]

Last night in the chatroom, someone remarked that the chibi collection looked "like a WASP convention." Harsh words but the point is well-taken: Star Army is currently not as diverse as a sci-fi universe should be.

On a species level, the most glaring issue is that almost all races look human. Abwehrans (particularly females) look human. Iroma look human. Lorath look human. Where's our

So here's my proposal:

1. Count the list of known species.
2. Within those, count the ones that look human.
3. Figure out what percent currently looks human.
4. Create and encourage the creation of non-human races (mostly background but perhaps some played ones).
5. Mild retconning/updating of existing races to be less human/more exotic. For instance, I can work towards making new Nekovalkyrja more exotic skin colors like blue and purple by changing what's common on the CCG.
6. GMs make an effort to have more aliens appear in their RPs (where it makes sense).
7. More alien artwork on the site.
8. Set goals and continue until we can get the "looks like a human" percentage down to 50% - or at least become as diverse as the other two big universes starting with "Star."

We could also start calling Nepleslians (the species) humans.

Your input is appreciated

 

[Gunsight1]

Adding some less human alien races would be cool for some diversity. I don't think our lack of non-humanoid aliens is something we should feel overly bad about though. Many scifi universes out there are nearly if not entirely human/humanoid based, Battlestar Galactica, Honor Harrington, Macross and Crest of the Stars to name a few that do just fine in that respect.

That aside, the universe is a big place and we are set in a small piece of it. It would be awesome to start bimping into new more unique neighbors.

 

[Wes]

Even having non-human heads/faces would be a good start. Making Star Army a more varied and interesting universe will be a gradual process and it will probably be a few years we start seeing a major difference. But I do think it's something that those involved with the canon (GMs, article submitters, etc) should have as one of their goals.

 

[Gunsight1]

For sure. The more creative and uniqe the universe becomes the better.

 

[Fred]

I don't think we should take such comments as an incentive to retcon things in the setting that are well-used. Twisting the nekovalkyrja color range, frankly, feels forced.

Encouraging being exposed to more diversity seems the way to go. For example, the Yamataian Empire has two 'alien' species - the Phodians and the Kodians - whom could stand to be emphasized more... even though their creators have moved on from the setting. The mere act of portraying a Phodian caretaker on the Eucharis could already be eye opening to people whom didn't know the race at all.

The rest comes from out encounters and stories, depending on how much the GMs involved which to stretch their imagination and how they are allowed to extend the scope of SARP.

 

[Nashoba]

I do not see changing the colors of the Nekos as a real item. We have never told someone they couldn't chose a rare color.

As for adding alien diversity, I think I have already done enough with the work on the Hidden Sun Clan. They even have some very nice artwork. And sometime in the future I will probably run a plot with them as the characters.

Perhaps promoting some of the ones we have would help. Unfortunately most of our 'aliens' stay in their own space, so when we describe a scene we are limited to what is in the local area.

 

[Moogle]

I just got a second idea for a race with bird heads. You know, like Horus. I mean, the "Egypt was really aliens" idea has been done to death, but still. It'd be another way to get nonhuman diversity into the setting. And by humanoid, do you mean bipedal races with one set of arms and a head where it ought to be? Or do you mean ones that look very human-derived in most aspects?

 

[Doshii Jun]

Hang on here.

The comment makes it sound like all of our characters are white and that we need more blacks, Asians, Latinos and other U.S.-viewed minorities.

I see where the statement might be coming from, but I don't get the problem.

If we're talking about aliens, we've been over this before. Wes, you've always wanted more alien-like aliens. The Chelti are a good start; Cadet's got a race in the fire too. So that's getting worked on.

If we're talking about racial minorities? We've had black players who didn't create black characters; we've had First Nation players who didn't create First Nation characters. We've had white players create dark-skinned characters. There aren't as many because, well —

Yamatai is very much like Japan! Which is extremely homogenous!

Even so, the "look" does little. Making Neko look like black people won't make them start playing out what we know as black culture, and even if it did, it would be forced at best. I would take this moment to state how the problem is a certain FM does not reinforce the extreme differences between Nekovalkyrja and Yamataian (human) peoples, but I'll pass.

Instead, we should admit to ourselves that what the real problem is, simply, is that sci-fi is a pretty white culture in the end and that we haven't tried to incorporate other cultures in the setting, as a whole. I don't see our lack of gumption to try and bring in new cultures as something to feel bad about; we're not here to do that. If it was, it would be "Star Anthropology."

The Iroma are a decidedly different case, and Hackman deserves props for that. The Hidden Sun Clan also has an immensely different flavor.

Retconning should be an absolute last step. Absolute. Not something lightly bandied about to solve a problem not even clearly stated.

 

[Sigma]

I wish to point out - the Kohanians. They're dormant and have had little development in recent years. So... the issue from my perspective is not the lack of non-human aliens but rather, the lack of focus on them. Once I get done with the Nep wiki pages, I could (assuming MoonMan has no plans for them) make them a playable sub-group within the DIoN.

Scot's Aeonic are on hold because the guy has RL going for him. The Kohanians.

I don't see where the problem is. Not once have I had a player come to me and say "Sigma, we need more aliens cos too many of them are human-like." This is, like the Drei issue, a minor concern that is being exaggerated without good cause. If the player base don't see a need for it, why introduce it? Is our Role Play so severely hampered by the lack of non-human aliens?

This is a whim. Not a well thought out plan conceived and agreed upon by the staff. Doshii's comments and Nashoba's concerns are testimony to that. I cannot obey the whim of one man, no matter who he is, without the consultation of the players I represent. That would be contra to my code as a Game Master.

 

[Wes]

Read this article - it contrasts with us and kind of shows some ways species could be more diverse/important here.

The comment makes it sound like all of our characters are white and that we need more blacks, Asians, Latinos and other U.S.-viewed minorities.

We do. And I don't mean this in the sense of "oh, we should eat more broccoli not because we like it but because it's healthy" but rather that I would like to fight against the American cultural bias that assumes that a white male human is the "blank slate" and that anything different is a "special interest" or invisible. We discussed this in the "Race in SF" panel at Dragon*Con and I really want to apply some of the lessons learned on both a racial and a species level. Star Army is a great universe but it's very resistant to change so I'm going to push change even in the face of some resistance.

The Chelti are a good start; Cadet's got a race in the fire too. So that's getting worked on.

I agree. There are a couple of races here and there that we could show off more.

Yamatai is very much like Japan! Which is extremely homogenous!

Yamatai is not as homogenous as Japan. While Yamataians (Minkan and Nekos) make up a majority, there is still a huge portion of Yamatai that is a mixing pot of races and cultures and even in the majority species there are various cultures and subcultures. Yamatai's monoculture isn't universal.

we haven't tried to incorporate other cultures in the setting, as a whole.

I believe it would me more interesting if we did.

And by humanoid, do you mean bipedal races with one set of arms and a head where it ought to be? Or do you mean ones that look very human-derived in most aspects?

I mean mostly human looking, like humans with funny ears or altered faces or extra appendages.

I do not see changing the colors of the Nekos as a real item. We have never told someone they couldn't chose a rare color.

I think if we present examples and write that we're looking for more diversity, players making new nekos will be more likely to chose more diverse neko appearances. And it's an easy change we can make to the site without any retcons. As for other species, Abwehrans have retconned the tails away and no one seemed to care, so some changing of features is certainly possible if the FM is interested. It'd be like the Klingons going from TOS to TNG. The updates, if any, could be applied to new characters and be optional for existing ones.

Additionally, we should be careful about having all aliens be enemies. In a nutshell, let's add flavor and gradually move in a direction that shows that we're part of a greater universe.

Not once have I had a player come to me and say "Sigma, we need more aliens cos too many of them are human-like."

No offense, but Nepleslians are the default human race. It makes sense that people joining Nepleslian generally want to play humans.

 

[Sigma]

I believe it would me more interesting if we did.

Seriously? You think you can play other cultures? Yamatai, according to the wiki is Japanese, almost none of the Yamataian players show an understanding of the underlying mindframe of Japanese society. It's more Western than it is Asian. Don't ask me how because there are just things in the subconscious which never seem to correspond with Chinese or Japanese society when I read Yamataian role play.

No offense, but Nepleslians are the default human race. It makes sense that people joining Nepleslian generally want to play humans.

Aaw, isn't that just stereotypical? Labeling Nepleslian players as one thing without proof. I suppose we should all just roll over and accept that your presentation of Nepleslian players' thoughts and likes are correct. No need for me to ask how many Nepleslian players who've told you this. For the record, I do take offense that you wish to speak for an entire faction's playerbase, including myself.

 

[Abwehran Commander]

I will state it here.

I only retcon Abwehran stuff if it is rarely used, not very well known, or not documented via art.

Therefore, retconning Abwehrans (even when I want to do so) will not happen.

 

[Fred]

Aaw, isn't that just stereotypical? Labeling Nepleslian players as one thing without proof. I suppose we should all just roll over and accept that your presentation of Nepleslian players' thoughts and likes are correct. No need for me to ask how many Nepleslian players who've told you this. For the record, I do take offense that you wish to speak for an entire faction's playerbase, including myself.

Can you explain what you're not exactly happy about? I hardly want to slight you in any way, but I don't see what it was that Wes said that would provoke such ire. I won't go out of my way to put labels on the things you identify to, but I'll admit I thought very similarily of the Nepleslians. Or, at least, my yamataian characters kind of did. It also seemed, barring a few variables, to be how it was portrayed to me.

Not to mention how I feel you're ignoring one point: Wes created the Nepleslians. They've been created and defined by him a looong time before you even joined SARP. Not to mention how, as setting manager, he's in the role where new people joins his roleplaying community and Wes has expectations of what his site can provide to appeal to these new members. It's not upstaging the opinions of the current playerbase so much as his job to do so.

However, it's also clear that Wes' obvious bias toward Yamatai skews things in a certain way for him too. Perhaps he's become out of touch to your own perceptions since you're a presently active and very involved Nepleslian plot GM and made up your own (likely quite valid and up to date) interpretations, but I think this situation would merit an update to explain the difference of opinion rather than be all upset about it.

 

[Ira]

Well, it was me who made the WASP comment. I just want to clarify I was joking.

I do want to see more alien looking aliens. We do need more antagonists. But we should flaunt our alien aliens more.

As far as the aesthetic. I have made it clear when I made the Gartagens, the faces were only humanish so people could have ease of description.

I am unwilling to alter the faces due to the fact that well, I spent money on the current art I have and I as the FM am satisfied. Plus I did crowd source and got the impression that the majority are satisfied.

 

[Wes]

Sigma: I second Fred's post. I'm not sure why you're offended. I wouldn't be offended if someone said the equivalent of Yamatai ("Most people that join Yamatai want to play Nekovalkyrja.") any more than "most people go to a steakhouse to order steak."

As you have observed, Yamataian culture is not Japanese. It's a hodgepodge of elements from various sources. I will continue to expand the article when possible.

Ira: I don't think anyone has beef with the appearance of the Gartagens. They're one of the setting's best alien designs!

 

[Ira]

Well thanks, I do want to point out though that Jimmy's Chelti look fantastic. Nashoba's HSC fit the niche too. I have no issue with the current races we do have, but variety is always good.

I do have a race that needs more work but I hope to get them added to our site in the future

 

[Sigma]

Sigma: I second Fred's post. I'm not sure why you're offended. I wouldn't be offended if someone said the equivalent of Yamatai ("Most people that join Yamatai want to play Nekovalkyrja.") any more than "most people go to a steakhouse to order steak."

The issue is this - How can you, Wes, speak for every Nepleslian player? It's a broad, general statement that doesn't seem, to me, to be a fair assumption to make. I am perfectly willing to admit that my reaction was more aggravated than necessary but the point is that it seems insulting to label most Nep players as only interested in playing humans.

Nor does the comment take into account the basic underlying principle I implied. Not one player in either of my plots have commented on alien races and their respective appearances. If we are GMs and FMs, then our decisions ought to have grounding in the playerbase's support. Not a passing fancy or ill-conceived plan. If this was on your mind, this should have been in the staff forum and agreed upon between all of the Global Mods.

upstaging the opinions of the current playerbase so much as his job to do so.

Except it is. If one were to read this thread, one would see that there is no clear consensus to this plan. The clearest part about Star Army is that it's about "collaborative story writing". Without consensus, how can there be collaboration? I've presented my solution with regards to the Kohanians and unused races two posts ago.

When I have Doshii sounding very reluctant and two FMs on the fence, this does not seem, to me, to be an idea that would go well.

 

[Moogle]

Just putting in my two cents, he clearly said people that go to Nepleslian "generally" want to play humans. There was no "only" in that statement. I mean, you can play a Kohanian that lives in Neplesia, or maybe a Spacer, but generally (same word he used) people play humans in Neplesia.

Just sayin'

 

[ShotJon]

Hello. It's me. A player.

So anyway just kidding. I want to say that any and all ret-conning sucks. It does not matter if it is for the better or the worse, it just sucks.
Other thing, why do we have so many human looking races? Gee I wonder why. My guess it was probably because their FM wanted them looking that way.

Then I would like to note that as there are people who get off by having universe filled with aliens looking like a butter you left on sun for two months, there are such players (me one of them) who would rather have aesthetic aliens. So what they look like humans? They are at least more pleasing to the eye and I have easier time bonding with the character that way.

As for adding more cultures again I don't really see the reason for it other then that you want to be seen less racist or something. If player does not want to create black guy, he won't. That is how it work pretty much. I am white so I play white people and it is not because I hate black guys, I just could not identify with the character as well. It is the same with all my Yamataian character, none of them has asian features. Why? Because I am not asian and I would not know asian culture works and if I tried to do one I would just bastardize it. Just wanted to share my thought on this matter.

(Also linking mass effect is really cheezy seeing how the main races act like humans and only look different )

 

[Doshii Jun]

Read this article - it contrasts with us and kind of shows some ways species could be more diverse/important here.

I've read the article before. Mass Effect doesn't incorporate black culture, or Asian culture or Latino culture. It incorporates alien cultures — which is great, something that we do as it is and something we will continue to do.

An Anglo-Saxon male human is not the "blank slate" of SARP. It IS the blank slate of Mass Effect, so we can feel good about that. (Unless you go with FemShep; mmmmm, Hale-Shep.)

The comment makes it sound like all of our characters are white and that we need more blacks, Asians, Latinos and other U.S.-viewed minorities.

We do. And I don't mean this in the sense of "oh, we should eat more broccoli not because we like it but because it's healthy" but rather that I would like to fight against the American cultural bias that assumes that a white male human is the "blank slate" and that anything different is a "special interest" or invisible. We discussed this in the "Race in SF" panel at Dragon*Con and I really want to apply some of the lessons learned on both a racial and a species level. Star Army is a great universe but it's very resistant to change so I'm going to push change even in the face of some resistance.

Wes, are you black? Latino? First Nation? I'm certainly not, and I wouldn't insult those cultures by trying to jam them into Star Army just to make me feel better about myself, or change how people view my site, when I don't know anything about them.

Nashoba does, and he did. Let's recognize that! Let's play that up somehow, if that'll make ya feel better — if Nash is up for it.

Let's take it a step further: do you want religious diversity too, Mr. Atheist? We can get in some Islamic culture, a little Hindu, maybe even some Lutheranism! You let me play "space Jew" when I first started, but that was me on my own. We could get serious about this, eh?

What I'm trying to point out here, as politely as I can, Wes, is that we players play what we want, and we don't want you trying to make us something we're not, don't want to be or don't have the knowledge to play.

Yamatai is very much like Japan! Which is extremely homogenous!

Yamatai is not as homogenous as Japan. While Yamataians (Minkan and Nekos) make up a majority, there is still a huge portion of Yamatai that is a mixing pot of races and cultures and even in the majority species there are various cultures and subcultures. Yamatai's monoculture isn't universal.

I pointed that out here, so you're right. But the perception we have is of Minkan and Neko because those are not just the CCG choices, but the chosen perception of Yamatai. We're Star Army; our plots are about fighting and wars and conflict, not the more mundane stuff. We leave the highly varied "ethnicities" to Nepleslia, who has more cultures and has mutants on top of that (even if we don't see them much).

we haven't tried to incorporate other cultures in the setting, as a whole.

I believe it would me more interesting if we did.

I think it would be awesome, but if we do, then we'd better get someone who knows them and can play them with accuracy and integrity.

This isn't something you can just sneak in through the CCG in 20 minutes and feel better about it, Wes, and Post-Panel Passion aside, it's something worth taking a long time to explore, and wait for the right player to come along.

Stating in the CCG that "Yamatai has a wide range of cultures, but its dominant one is the Kyoto-centric" blah blah blah is a good start, though. It defines that the northwestern Yamatai ethos is the dominant one, but leaves room for others. You could also spur players to introduce other areas of culture in Yamatai or in other factions, if their FMs are willing, but make sure they meet a standard — submit it to the NTSE and wikify it.