[NAM] Negative Energy Recoil Drive

[Zack]

I would also like to point out that overlapping aether taps aren't even in this submission.

 

[DocTomoe]

I would also like to point out that overlapping aether taps aren't even in this submission.

Uso... just... just... agh.

 

[Zack]

If there is anyone left who still wishes to vote no please give you reason why and let me try and change your mind first. I also wouldn't mind knowing why the other people voted against this submission.


As for DocTomoe, feel free to quote where overlapping aether taps appear in this submission. I can bet you won't find any because they aren't there. I would like to remind people that this is about the NERD and not other submissions.

 

[Toshiro]

I voted no because of various reasons, including concerns of its exclusiveness and the fact it's simply so powerful.

Also are concerns of game balance. There is a strong movement to REDUCE FTL speeds across the board and tone down the tech, and this flies in the face of everything that movement stands to accomplish.

 

[SUBLIMEinal]

Also are concerns of game balance. There is a strong movement to REDUCE FTL speeds across the board and tone down the tech, and this flies in the face of everything that movement stands to accomplish.

Don't tell me you're ignorant enough to actually believe that, Toshiro.

 

[Cora]

Also are concerns of game balance. There is a strong movement to REDUCE FTL speeds across the board and tone down the tech, and this flies in the face of everything that movement stands to accomplish.

Don't tell me you're ignorant enough to actually believe that, Toshiro.

Don't tell me your ignorant to think people can't do it Omega.

 

[Zack]

And what do you have to back that statement up with Toshiro? No FTL speed is listed because that is for ship submissions to deal with. As such FTL speed isn't an issue because all the device does is allow a ship to travel at FTL in a way that is already in use in this universe.

This also does nothing that hasn't been done before and stays well within what is established tech in this setting. The only really new thing is shearing FTL which had been OKed by Wes unofficially once previously to this submission and is plasuable as far as tech goes in this universe. It is not even more powerful than most weapons as it only has a mere 7 as a damage rating and has affected by interdiction fields.


Feel free to quote where in the submission it says that this submission moves faster than other FTL systems or where it is so overpowered. You'll find none of that.

 

[Toshiro]

Also are concerns of game balance. There is a strong movement to REDUCE FTL speeds across the board and tone down the tech, and this flies in the face of everything that movement stands to accomplish.

Don't tell me you're ignorant enough to actually believe that, Toshiro.

Try looking at the Miharu and its main ship's max speed of less than 18,000c before calling me ignorant. Also the entire SRP system could be taken as a step in the right direction. If you're going to post an argument, give a reason instead of resorting to insults, or I won't take you as seriously in the future.

Whether it has been done before or is technically plausible is not my concern. It is game breaking even in the current setting, and MUCH more so the way things are developing.

 

[Cora]

Since you don't give a maxamum Fold speed for this engine.

You have a blank cheque to make ANY damned speed you want. Idiot.

 

[Toshiro]

Cora, you stop insulting as well please.

 

[Zack]

Toshiro, this is a thread for the NERD and you are way off topic.

If you want to complain about the maximum FTL speed of this submission feel free to quote the maximum speed of the FTL in this submission.


As it stands the FTL speed is decided on a per ship basis (to account for things like size and the power output of the ship).

 

[Toshiro]

I'm talking about the drive itself being an issue. The speeds are only mentioned in other submissions, so I can only use them for reference. I am not off topic at all.

It's BECAUSE you don't mention the maximum FTL in this submission I have to look at others, which alone is a red flag. You wanted a reason, I gave it, and thus far, I am not very convinced otherwise. You have yet to address my specific concern.

Try setting a max speed in the design itself. Personally, I'd like to see max speeds for all types of FTL, even if they aren't ship specific.

In addition, your efforts before to get 25LY/M have been largely curbed...this time. I don't want to have to see the drama from that occurring everytime you use this drive either, which is supposed to have been a bit more limited anyway. Your other submissions seem to indicate that you plan to pursue making this a more common drive.

The Epee contains the controversial Negative Energy Recoil Drive system to assist in moving stealthily. As such it is intended to remain a limited issue unit until production of the NERD can be increased.

This also concerns me, and while from a different submission, it is directly relevant to the NERD and your intentions for it.

 

[Zack]

Again FTL speed is for ship submissions. 25 ly/min is a point to point system and not part of the NERD. It is a Nermian point to point system rather than a conventional warp drive system.

The quote you provided only deals with the ship itself having a NERD. I don't see why anyone should complain about me using (then) approved tech.


I would also like to point out that other scout ships go up to 250,000c and the Epee only hits 100,000. It is slower than other ship's FTL.

 

[Wes]

Just a reminder. This poll will be over at midnight, so if you haven't voted yet, please do so! Thank guys, and remember to keep it civil.

 

[Toshiro]

Even in such an instance, it is still too powerful and a ripoff of the Yamataian systems, which are already under considerable debate. Even IF the NERD WERE usable and not gamebreaking, it would need postponed at the least until things were decided.

Also, I believe it was approved on the condition it was limited, which you seem to have no intention of following from the wording in that submission.

I gtg for the night, so I am done with this whole thing.

 

[Jadg Wolf]

The only problem I can see in all this "balance" drama is that this is another overpowered concept, only not for Yamatai and thus unapprovable.

I was writing a more detailed explanation of my reason for voting Yes, but decided that since talking about things I don't understand will just get me into trouble anyway, I'd abstain and just vote. I really don't think a lot of voting to begin with as it enables any random forum member with a variable amount of tech knowledge to come in and vote on something they don't understand (sort of like me), but as long as Yamatai has one-hit kill, planet-annihilating weapons, I see no reason why Nepleslia can't have powerful engines.

 

[Zack]

Even in such an instance, it is still too powerful and a ripoff of the Yamataian systems, which are already under considerable debate. Even IF the NERD WERE usable and not gamebreaking, it would need postponed at the least until things were decided.

Also, I believe it was approved on the condition it was limited, which you seem to have no intention of following from the wording in that submission.

I gtg for the night, so I am done with this whole thing.

In what ways is this too powerful? In what way is this not limited? The fact is the NERD is usable and is not gamebreaking and the ONLY reason why this poll is up is because people have bitched to Wes instead of taking their comments to the tech forum.

 

[Fred]

The thing you need to understand, Uso Tasuki, is that the Star Army Roleplay is currently plagued by ships whom have utterly unrealistic traveling speeds - something even you have ridiculed at some point. The introduction of the SRP system allowed us to tweak engines so that they would become more cost effective and some of us have taken the opportunity to contribute to that.

The current speeds in the SARP very often defeat the purpose of the actual roleplay that is in fact being implemented. They don't match the use we should and can make of them - this isn't a case of people not being to accept being in a futuristic setting with high technology, but rather that big numbers have been put in places and that we simply can't respect them due to how ludicrously logic-defying they are.

I'll use a metaphor and present to you cars. Cars are generally used for specific purposes in mind. The domestic car, usually used for transit from one's home in downtown to more bustling traffic areas in the city proper usually goes at 110-120kph top, though it could reach around 200kph if it was pushed. In the same manner, Formula One racing cars typically range more around the 300kph and can probably be pushed higher to the 400+kph.

However, following the same metaphor, SARP vessels such as the ones produced by KFY go up to 2800kph! Even if they are made for - lt's say - racing... they are still ludicrously too fast! There's no way they can make proper turns on the Formula One race tracks going at that speed! So, even if KFY makes super-powerful engines, their cost and effectiveness are actually not needed all that often unless they actually have to travel in a straight line for a very long time without the use of fold drive systems - which are better made for such activities.

You, in turn, have been trying to make ships that go to 3500kph, simply because you feel you can, because there is precedent, and because you wish your submissions to be hot and totally miss the point that even if you do get that kind of speed out, you won't be able to make proper use of them... and so, your engine systems on the starships proper end up being a huge waste of materials.

Pardon the expression, but haste makes waste. Literally, here. And people keep doing it.

I tried making a detailed starship battle with the Miharu and considering how distances were being spanned and I quickly noticed how needlessly powerful some aspects of engine drive systems were in the SARP, which leaves people like Vesper and Lady Xerena to look at us, point and say "You suck!" And that might be more right than we'd like to admit!

So, with the SRP system being up, I decided that we needed to work to lower our top speeds. Most GMs I talked to agreed. Wes implemented a economic way to achieve that. Now, very fast means around 20 000c. Good fold speeds are below 1 ly/m (with .4 being fairly good).

With your drive system, you either have the choice of cooperating and participating to that endeavor, thus helping technology as a whole in the SARP and setting yourself as a good example... or keeping going for stuff OVER9000 and continue getting slapped by a wet trout.

Your choice. Help the SARP get better or help it stagnate.

 

[SUBLIMEinal]

Even in such an instance, it is still too powerful and a ripoff of the Yamataian systems, which are already under considerable debate. Even IF the NERD WERE usable and not gamebreaking, it would need postponed at the least until things were decided.

Also, I believe it was approved on the condition it was limited, which you seem to have no intention of following from the wording in that submission.

I gtg for the night, so I am done with this whole thing.

A. Wait, what Yamataian system does this rip off?
B. This isn't gamebreaking. The difference between going 10 LY/min and 25 LY/min in this setting is, what, 10 minutes, max?
C. Uso has submitted no more than 4 submissions using this tech, most of which will see only limited use, and all of those within one plotship.

 

[Cora]

So, the Alliance will be using the Tandam, the BASIC, the Epee and the Intercepter? Why would that cruiser need a fighter, a destroyer a land based armor and an anti-ship land based armor?