Star Army is a landmark of original sci-fi roleplaying.

Opened in 2002, Star Army is like an internet clubhouse for people who love sci-fi, roleplaying, anime, and/or gaming. New members are welcome!

NTSE Issues

Discussion in 'Setting Discussion' started by FrostJaeger, Dec 11, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. FrostJaeger

    FrostJaeger o v o
    Site Supporter FM of Elysia Game Master

    Joined:
    May 1, 2015
    Messages:
    1,327
    Likes Received:
    714
  2. Zekec

    Game Master

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2016
    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    156
    Zack likes this.
  3. FrostJaeger

    FrostJaeger o v o
    Site Supporter FM of Elysia Game Master

    Joined:
    May 1, 2015
    Messages:
    1,327
    Likes Received:
    714
    Why are you making personal attacks against me, @Zekec?
     
  4. Cora

    Cora Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,874
    Likes Received:
    29
    @FrostJaeger it isn't an attack, you asked a question, and got an answer.
     
    Gallant, Zekec and Ira like this.
  5. Ira

    Ira Ser Spit
    Site Supporter Game Master

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,763
    Likes Received:
    485
    Perhaps you should ask him why he said that @FrostJaeger maybe use this as an opportunity to understand others?
     
  6. Ira

    Ira Ser Spit
    Site Supporter Game Master

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,763
    Likes Received:
    485
    Okay. So I will say what my issues are.

    The NTSE is a hostile place. When ever somebody makes a submission it swiftly turns into rather mean spirited verbal boxing match. It is uncomfortable to see the NTSE mods get called names, have their bumped off of submissions at request, and otherwise disrespected.

    This lack of compassion or respect has resulted in the loss of players and Talarn.

    The NTSE is a place for discussion, quality control and getting articles to the point where they can be approved. It is not a stick to be used to beat people that you dislike with. The NTSE is a very hostile place.
     
    Rizzo and Ethereal like this.
  7. FrostJaeger

    FrostJaeger o v o
    Site Supporter FM of Elysia Game Master

    Joined:
    May 1, 2015
    Messages:
    1,327
    Likes Received:
    714
    It's an attack when there's no evidence to support it, @Cora.

    The burden of proof lies with @Zekec, not me, @Ira.

    Please refrain from derailing this thread, @Ira, as it is not about me.
     
  8. raz

    raz A Princess of Yamatai
    Necromancer FM of the Kudhacari Game Master

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2005
    Messages:
    2,627
    Likes Received:
    1,512
    I think this about some people, too, as I've stated in the past.

    So, should we just all stop writing articles because some members don't have high opinions of other members? Essentially everyone boycotting the NTSE until the people they disagree with are gone?

    That'd be ridiculous. It's not the solution.

    People just need to learn some basic respect for others.
     
    FrostJaeger likes this.
  9. Ira

    Ira Ser Spit
    Site Supporter Game Master

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,763
    Likes Received:
    485
    Respect works both ways. You will not get respect until you give it.
     
  10. ArsenicJohn

    ArsenicJohn Guest

    The first thing I have noticed recently is with articles being approved, then someone coming along with a problem and getting the article pulled back into submissions. That is pretty insulting to the mods.

    Another problem is with inappropriate behavior, such as the behaviors listed in Toshiro’s article. Sarcasm, passive-aggressive behavior, overgeneralization, shifting topics. None of those things should be tolerated.

    The people causing issues are not NTSE mods, I should point out. I’m not going to point fingers because that doesn’t solve anything.

    Next thing is telling people what they did wrong without giving advice on how to fix it, which makes people feel like they were attacked. The goal should be to help the article be approvable, not to say why it shouldn't be approved.
     
    Rizzo, Kim and Acewing13 like this.
  11. Ethereal

    Ethereal Busybirb
    Site Supporter Necromancer Game Master

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2015
    Messages:
    748
    Likes Received:
    662
    Some people are known to object to every single submission by a person they don't like despite its usefulness, even mods. That's just a fact from an outside-looking-in perspective. In NTSE it's incredibly hard to stop opinions influencing how you see proposed additions to the setting. That's not to say you need to force people out but rather people should check themselves before posting to see if they're being purposefully inflammatory.
     
    Rizzo, Gallant and Zekec like this.
  12. CadetNewb

    CadetNewb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2009
    Messages:
    6,626
    Likes Received:
    1,362
    This is actually the root of why I've decided to take a break from the NTSE.

    A lot of the criticism being made in submissions is purely just that, and is not constructive. Rather, it is obstructive in nature. Further making things less welcoming for anyone making a submission is the way they're posted. It is extremely bureaucratic, using the rule of law rather than the spirit of law. The NTSE has become an unwelcoming place for new players, and even for older ones like myself, a headache.
     
  13. Zekec

    Game Master

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2016
    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    156
    It is not a personal attack when it is true. All you do is complain, all you do is fight and argue with others(Including moderators an admins), heck, you even were banned because of it. I can name many people who find you annoying, intolerable and an outright jackass at times. Let people alone and do their NTSE submissions and reviews, the moderators are more than capable of doing their own job. You are an unnecessary thorn in the NTSE that make things a lot more complicated and stressful than needed. That is not only to you, but anyone who constantly bickers and fights on the NTSE, it scares people away.

    And as this stands, I believe there is a lot of evidence to support it.
     
  14. raz

    raz A Princess of Yamatai
    Necromancer FM of the Kudhacari Game Master

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2005
    Messages:
    2,627
    Likes Received:
    1,512
    This shouldn't be a thing. I'll tell people what I know won't work, but I'm not going to be creative for them. The last time I suggested alternatives a GM accused me of trying to run their plot and they still whine about it to this day.

    Because of this, it's clear to me that helping certain people is like yelling at a brick wall. So I've personally got to the point where I just say my piece and leave, resigned to the fact that the broken elements will be allowed to pass through. It's essentially useless to care about the shared universe aspect anymore because a ton of people have forced wacky, canon-breaking stuff through with great frequency lately.
     
    FrostJaeger likes this.
  15. CadetNewb

    CadetNewb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2009
    Messages:
    6,626
    Likes Received:
    1,362
    I suppose there's no point beating around the bush. What Frost does was a nightmare to deal with as an NTSE mod, especially the way he tries to crush a submission with huge, multi-linked, multi-quote posts that are a pain to read through.
     
    Rizzo likes this.
  16. Ira

    Ira Ser Spit
    Site Supporter Game Master

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,763
    Likes Received:
    485
    You don’t come across as helpful at all. You come across a superior, cruel, and mean spirited. You hold grudges and it obviously colors your Judgment. You like only the submissions of people you personally like and that is it.

    So everything you said works both ways. It is like screaming at a brick wall.
     
  17. CadetNewb

    CadetNewb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2009
    Messages:
    6,626
    Likes Received:
    1,362
    Looks like someone's phone is (was) acting stupid.
     
    #17 CadetNewb, Dec 11, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
    Ira likes this.
  18. Syaoran

    FM of Abwehr Game Master

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2014
    Messages:
    3,498
    Likes Received:
    1,344
    The worst part about all of this is that all of this is true and legit problems, and the actual NTSE system itself isn't even in the discussion. People have in the last year or so stopped thinking about what's going to make the site better and started just trying to "Stop their enemies". And it's just gotten dumb.

    Also people jsut plain don't know what -constructive- criticism actually is. Constructive criticism only has to do one thing, and that's provide insight. That does not mean they have to give you a solution. But that also means they can't just shout "WRONG". It means telling them something wont work and explaining why you believe it wont work. -That- is being constructive because it is providing insight, even if it doesn't fix the problem.

    However the same problems that show up in the NTSE are already showing up here. We're talking about the NTSE not people, stop taking direct jabs at eachother and grow up.
     
  19. raz

    raz A Princess of Yamatai
    Necromancer FM of the Kudhacari Game Master

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2005
    Messages:
    2,627
    Likes Received:
    1,512
    This isn't true whatsoever. It's impossible to object to things that I'm either uninformed about or have nothing wrong with them.

    The fact that Frost has some genuine questions that were immediately discarded and answered in a petty, personal, irrelevant manner goes a long way to prove which group of people on this site "hold grudges." So don't even start this thing where you tell people they're acting in the way you are; your perspective isn't universal, nor do most people act like you do behind closed doors.

    What a ridiculous thread.
     
    FrostJaeger likes this.
  20. Ethereal

    Ethereal Busybirb
    Site Supporter Necromancer Game Master

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2015
    Messages:
    748
    Likes Received:
    662
    People need to stop reading into actions that have nothing to do with them and taking them to heart, making "enemies" as Syaoran says.

    Most of the time it's something tiny but miscommunication and reading into things convolutes it to the point you have people being mortal enemies for no reason.

    That's really the root of all that's wrong with the site, everything else is just stemming from that.
     
    FrostJaeger likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page