NTSE Issues

[Syaoran]

Well what you said cadet does sort of fall in line with what I was thinking about. One thing I've noticed for the site is we have a pretty good set of "don'ts" for the site. But One thing I've noticed we don't really have at least not that I can recall having seen is a good list of how to discipline people when they make infractions. That could be one reason things don't happen often on a disciplinary front, because people just might not be sure what the action that was against the rules was worth.

 

[Ira]

Maybe a more codified disciplinary rule set up?

 

[Fred]

So it can just be used to score more points against the 'other team' in Reports? You guys are already playing this game and it's only yielding you mixed results.

Syaoran already said it clearly: change begins with you.

 

[Edto Xar'Sivaree]

When the NTSE works, it works. When it doesn't, it doesn't work.

What makes the NTSE not work? The lack of compassion and Empathy. That's what makes it not work. As I said in my previous post. Go into NTSE discussions with the goal of being nice. Complimet things the submitter did right so they will take your criticisms better!

These things aren't so hard. You are allowed to have complaints, but people don't like it when that is all your bring to the table. People work hard on the NTSE Articles they write up FULL STOP. There is no and if or buts to that. People work hard on them. People work to make them look good, they work to have them make sense, and sometimes people arent quite there. You dont have to not tell them that for fear of hurting their feelings, but throw in soething that will soften that blow.

Why does this seem like such a difficult thing? Hell, @raz did it on my military article, I went through and did exactly what he suggested. People can actually go see that I did. Why? Because he said some nice things. Instead of the constant "This is wrong fix it" I usually get from the NTSE I was told what I was trying to do was cool, and then I was told how to make it work better. Made me feel better about actually doing it.

 

[CadetNewb]

If NTSE Mods could actually, you know, moderate the threads they're reviewing, that might help actually.

EDIT: Ninja'd

 

[Syaoran]

I don't think an explicit or codified list is the answer. But I do think matching 'average' punishments to 'average' offenses is a good idea. So that a mod has somewhere to work from. We're talking about when it's clear that someone has broken the rules in some way. This is just so that a mod can know what punishment they should be giving without having to come up with their own or try to find a precedent.

 

[Ametheliana]

Complimet things the submitter did right so they will take your criticisms better!

It is heavily implied that they did things right. Everything I did not say was wrong, was right.

Cadet, nobody wants to bash your name into the ground so don't expect criticisms.

Thanks to everyone for not making this too crazy. It can be more civil but it's not bad. Thanks.

 

[Ira]

So it can just be used to score more points against the 'other team' in Reports? You guys are already playing this game and it's only yielding you mixed results.

Syaoran already said it clearly: change begins with you.

So basically the reports don’t do anyhing.

Fred you’d have banned me if I spoke to them the way they have spoken to me.

I’m not playing a game. I want them to stop being their shit to my side of the fence.

 

[Edto Xar'Sivaree]

It is heavily implied that they did things right. Everything I did not say was wrong, was right.

Have you seriously gotten a submission that was so wrong, there was nothing you could compliment? I find this shockingly hard to believe.

If everything you did not say was wrong, was right, then say what was right. How is this a difficult thing to understand? Will saying nice things about stuff, commenting that things were actually done right, make you melt? Cause you intense physical pain? Make you lose internet connection? Is there any negative you will suffer from saying something nice?

 

[raz]

I’m not playing a game. I want them to stop being their shit to my side of the fence.

The Iroma were our side of the fence. Azorea was our side of the fence. The Lorath were entrusted to anyone but Asteria. SAINT is our side of the fence.

You guys provoked the ensuing drama in each of those instances, knowing the response it'd elicit. If you can't take criticism when you encroach on others' "sandboxes" — as y'all call them — then don't put your ideas into the public square in the first place.

 

[CadetNewb]

Your side of the fence? I'm sorry, but I didn't know you were the FM Raz - we cleared that historical detail with Soresu since I thought he was the FM.

 

[Syaoran]

@Fred can I ask that post squabbling about personaly gripes with other people and not about improving the NTSE be removed? I know it's not my thread but some people just wont let it continue down what it was meant for.

 

[CadetNewb]

I hate to say this Syaoran, but those 'personality gripes' are a large part of what's dragged down the NTSE for the past year. Like we agreed on earlier, we need to do better than that.

 

[FrostJaeger]

You know what I think, @Fred? I think this entire goddamned thread should be deleted, because it was stupid of me to even make it in the first place - well played, @ArsenicJohn, well played - and because you know what?

I'm tired of this witch hunt that @Ira, @CadetNewb, @Zack, @Gallant, @Acewing13, @ArsenicJohn, @Edto Xar'Sivaree, @Arieg, and quite a few others have been participating in. I'm tired of their dishonesty, their metagaming, their hostility, their harassment, their hypocrisy (especially in this pathetic joke of a thread), and their ignorance of anything - be it rules, canon, common decency, and so on - that gets in the way of their precious roleplaying.

I'm sorry that you had to see this, @Bullroarer. Truly, I am - because I know that if I had seen this level of bullshit back when I first joined in 2015, I would have left immediately.

So yeah, @Fred - please remove this mistake of a thread from the forums.

 

[Ira]

The Iroma were our side of the fence. Azorea was our side of the fence. The Lorath were entrusted to anyone but Asteria. SAINT is our side of the fence.

You guys provoked the ensuing drama in each of those instances, knowing the response it'd elicit. If you can't take criticism when you encroach on others' "sandboxes" — as y'all call them — then don't put your ideas into the public square in the first place.

The iroma are not yours. They are Soresu’s we spoke to Soresu on the subject before doing anything. Once that dialogue was made the change to the page was made to nod at the rp that had taken place. Which was the proper protocol. The iroma have been apart of the setting for a long time. The Lorath were apart of the setting too and apart of the region that Asteria is currently located in. RP happened and I have no problem acknowledging it.

All I see from you is attempts to halt people from roleplaying on a roleplay site and that needs to stop.

This site is not a bunch of sand boxes. Factions have interacted before and will interact again.

 

[raz]

Your side of the fence? I'm sorry, but I didn't know you were the FM Raz - we cleared that historical detail with Soresu since I thought he was the FM.

Let me know when Soresu does anything to keep the Iroma a front-page faction with a forum.

I say this not as an insult to Soresu. Never fought with the guy at all even though we share differing opinions on so many things, and I think he's great. But c'mon. Bringing the Iroma into Asteria without considering how it impacts the whole site's narrative is flat-out insulting to those of us who have been using the Iroma in the spirit of their intended isolation.

 

[Edto Xar'Sivaree]

and quite a few others have been participating in. I'm tired of their dishonesty, their metagaming, their hostility, their harassment, their hypocrisy (especially in this pathetic joke of a thread), and their ignorance of anything - be it rules, canon, common decency, and so on - that gets in the way of their precious roleplaying.

Why was I lumped in here? I've made very few posts, and all of my posts have bee rather neutral. I don't how "Hey, everyone should really just be ice to each other" can be considered any of this.

 

[CadetNewb]

@FrostJaeger , the whole point of this thread is to productively air our grievances and work out something that'll make the site better. Since we're all part of this, I suggest pitching in?

EDIT: If you spoke with him, you'd know that Exhack's greatest regret was having the Iromakuanhe isolated Raz. I'm just trying to do something right by him.

 

[Fred]

So basically the reports don’t do anyhing.

Heh. Hahahaha.

What sort of lame comeback is that, Ira? Trying to go sensational on me?

Do you know the story of the boy that cried wolf? Hopefully? Basically, in some village a kid was crying wolf to get a rise out of the adults going all in harm to protect him and the rest of the village from this supposed wolf. But it was a prank that the kid happened to pull more than once. So when a real wolf showed up and that he cried out in warning, the rest of the villagers didn't believe him. So the kid got eaten by the wolf.

That's the nature of most of the reports were seeing. As Syaoran outlined for you before, people have kind of been at war over the NTSE and one of those outlets have been reporting petty stuff. We hear people cry wolf a lot. If you cry wolf a lot, then it makes crying wolf in the first place a lot less effective.

Staff-side, we try to deal with the reports as well as we can. If anyone is making reports less effective, it's those that are being trigger-happy with them and counting on Staff to resolve all their conflicts.

You think me indifferent? Perhaps you simply don't understand just how ridiculous it's gotten. I haven't made the comparison "10 years old squabbling to know who'se turn is next on the videogame console" lightly.

Shape up and have some accountability. Part of conflict resolution, once it's gotten to this point, begins with you. Your entitlement to feeling in the right, any sense of self-righteousness... that's all secondary concerns now. All of those won't fix the issue.

* * *

@Syaoran
I'm not censoring any of this thread. I'm letting people brawl. I've allowed the NTSE to comport itself like somesort of rotten bureaucracy and it hasn't helped. The pus needs to come out.

So, by all means, BRAWL. A degree of civility is still appreciated, but conflict resolution begins with the people here, not the Staff censoring them.

 

[Syaoran]

Your side of the fence? I'm sorry, but I didn't know you were the FM Raz - we cleared that historical detail with Soresu since I thought he was the FM.

There's a difference however between talking about fixing the NTSE and just throwing gripes out there. Walk about the behavior and ways to fix it, don't talk about the people themselves.