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NTSE Issues

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raz said:
Let me know when Soresu does anything to keep the Iroma a front-page faction with a forum.

I say this not as an insult to Soresu. Never fought with the guy at all even though we share differing opinions on so many things, and I think he's great. But c'mon. Bringing the Iroma into Asteria without considering how it impacts the whole site's narrative is flat-out insulting to those of us who have been using the Iroma in the spirit of their intended isolation.
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Okay. Let’s correct your perspective.

No we did not bring the iroma into Asteria. The Iroma were already on Asura III when Asteria formed as a result of events that occurred in the past. TFL. All that happened was an addition to the wiki acknowledging this particular bit of writing.
 
@Fred

It wasn’t come back. I was basically noting what you said about the reports. It indicated to me that they aren’t taken seriously at all.

Yea, I’m saying it your assement of me is utterly wrong. That is a lot of assumptions, and I really dislike that lack of respect. I am not a Child and I’d appreciate it you did not condescend to me like I am one.
 
Then I misread.

Though it doesn't make the nature of the response any less sincere. Though it does put my wry amusement in a bad light, for which I apologize.

@raz
...and yes Raz. Festivus.
 
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I know this is off topic, but it's rather rude of you to handwave what we're saying Raz. Soresu and I are both first generation Iromakuanhe players from Bahram Wing after all. We RP'd directly under Exhack himself. No matter how you feel though, it doesn't excuse what you posted in that thread. That's offensive.
 
Its cool Fred, I recognize you have a difficult task here and are handling it in the best way possible.
 
CadetNewb said:
I know this is off topic, but it's rather rude of you to handwave what we're saying Raz. Soresu and I are both first generation Iromakuanhe players from Bahram Wing after all. We RP'd directly under Exhack himself. No matter how you feel though, it doesn't excuse what you posted in that thread. That's offensive.
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The way you feel is offensive to me. But you don't see me throwing around how I roleplayed with Exhack, too, and stayed up many late nights with Ex and Revolver voice chatting about the Iroma. Even after Bahram ended — there was actually more time without Bahram running while he was around than there was it running — he left me with the impression that he liked the Iroma being their own anime mecha playground with little contact or presence in the Kikyo Sector because that contributed to their mystique.

So don't try to discredit me by saying you know Exhack better. You don't know what I've done just as I don't know what you've done. As you said "that's unacceptable."
 
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He liked it that way at first, but as time went by, he came to realize that having the Iromakuanhe safe up there also meant being excluded. We may disagree on this, but that does not excuse something like this;

raz said:
Frankly, you guys repeatedly take the intellectual hard work of others, repackage it in ways their creators don't approve of — either explicitly or implicitly — and then call it the best thing on the block. I know if Ex still gave any sort of darn for SARP that he'd have stopped this from happening, and seeing it after you've already ignored a creator who was still around tell you not to mess with their stuff doesn't inspire confidence.

It's frightening and discourages participation for a sizable portion of active creators. Seemed like everyone was over doing disrespectful things like this.

I genuinely believe these words, believe it is important for someone to say, and don't mean any of it as an insult. So please just do not if you're thinking about it lmao.
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That kind of posting is unacceptable in the NTSE, and quite frankly @Fred the fact that something like that hasn't been dealt with does not help ensure confidence in the whole thing. I know you got your work cut out for you, but I thought something like that was an easy one.
 
It's not meant to be offensive and that was stated. It's what I believe. Knowing that my words were a genuine, objective concern regarding the future of the site means you're responsible for how that makes you feel.

Why would I be punished for discussing a real problem? None of you have been punished for literally, actually, in multiple ways telling Frost to leave.
 
HEADING BACK OVER TO HOW THE NTSE COULD BE BETTER

IDK if I've said it, but being nice to submitters really goes a long way to making the process smooth. Acknowlegment of the things the submitter did right or well makes them feel better. This means they will be more likely to comply with what it is you are asking them to do. Humans by nstict dig their heels in when they feel bad or attacked. Don't make them feel that way. They will follow you. Leading a horse to water is far easier if you're stroking it and telling it that it's doing a good job, it just need to take a few more steps, and getting them to trust you, than if you'e constantly beating it down to get to the water, ignoring that it's doing good to go with you.
 
raz said:
It's not meant to be offensive and that was stated. It's what I believe. Knowing that my words were a genuine, objective concern regarding the future of the site means you're responsible for how that makes you feel.

Why would I be punished for discussing a real problem? None of you have been punished for literally, actually, in multiple ways telling Frost to leave.
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Did you even read the TFL rp or what Soresu said about it?
 
@CadetNewb it sure did involve me, but frankly, dealing with your bruised feelings offered me little ways of moving forward. I chose a goal-oriented path to resolve the thread itself. If you choose to believe that wasn't any good, well...

I'm sorry, but you hurt the feelings of other people too. So does he. So do I. If the site's leadership acted on every easy little thing that gets reported, half of you lot would be banned already!

So, there's a good load of judicious restraint that has to be employed. You all have feelings.

And you all have an ability to communicate as adults in the age-range that you are in. And hey, turns out that when you use it rather than focusing on your own self-righteousness, you get to learn more about the other perspective. Did you know Raz had more of a personnal stake in the Iroma because of his own personnal involvement with Exhack? Probably not? Well, good thing we now know.

So, about this?
CadetNewb said:
@Fred the fact that something like that hasn't been dealt with does not help ensure confidence in the whole thing.
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Look to your own ability of conflict resolution first. Look at your own ability to decide to feel offended and figure out if it actually improves your own agenda or not.

And before you critique my handling of things, just picture how I feel about Raz. How biased I am when Raz is in question.

Judicious restraint. Some people like Raz. Some people look up to him. Some people appreciate him. Open your eyes and see it. See what Raz might be championing for. See what you can actually do about it, what you want to foster, and tailor your expectations and your goals accordingly.
 
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Aw, Fred. I like you and think you generally act pretty mature. We just disagree and get into spats like OGs often do. Thank you for your kind words.
 
raz said:
Aw, Fred. I like you and think you generally act pretty mature. We just disagree and get into spats like OGs often do. Thank you for your kind words.
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I'm afraid I don't really believe you, so, I cannot say the feeling is mutual and I labor to forget certain things I've experienced.

Do feel free to prove me wrong. >_>

I won't dwell on this more here because the nature of our conflict is not NTSE-centric, so, this isn't about me and you.

...

So, does anyone else have any smack-talk left in them?
 
So the takeaway is we don't like each other, which is fine. But why can't we agree to keep this crap out of the NTSE? We are not controlled by our emotions. If Frost could limit his bullet points to three items at a time and be a little more tactful, then he might not bother people so much. Other than that I'm not sure how to resolve this, but it should not spill over to the NTSE. If we stick to the checklist everything should be fine.

And I agree with Ame about something - people should not have to apologize... in an ideal world, but the world is not ideal. Humans are all flawed and those flaws sometimes cause conflict.

I was going to leave it at that, but Frost wanted to accuse a whole list of people of serious misconduct without providing a shred of evidence. So please tell me @FrostJaeger when I have exhibited "dishonesty, metagaming, harassment, hypocrisy, and ignorance of anything - be it rules, canon, common decency, and so on - that gets in the way of my precious roleplaying." I admit to displaying hostility at times, fine, maybe a little hypocrisy but I have not been dishonest, I have not harassed anyone or metagamed, and I am not ignorant of rules, canon, or common decency. Go ahead, post the screenshots or whatever you think will prove these accusations.
 
You need screenshots?

You think more finger pointing is actually going to help when the finger pointing has already been done? Who actually really cares about the facts? Do you need to be proven 'right' or 'wrong' that much?

Why don't you ask the question that actually matters? " @FrostJaeger why do you go all rule-lawyer on NTSE threads with such fervor? What's in it for you? What are you trying to champion for? Why go so far in face of this much opposition?"
 
If I have done all that I should be banned. If Frost wants me gone, fine, I'll take my ban if he can prove I've done all this.
 
Fred said:
You need screenshots?

You think more finger pointing is actually going to help when the finger pointing has already been done? Who actually really cares about the facts? Do you need to be proven 'right' or 'wrong' that much?

Why don't you ask the question that actually matters? " @FrostJaeger why do you go all rule-lawyer on NTSE threads with such fervor? What's in it for you? What are you trying to champion for? Why go so far in face of this much opposition?"
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it's not unnatural for people to demand evidence to substantiate a claim.
 
Looks like most of this has calmed down. And the reason Fred is making his comment about evidence is because honestly it doesn't matter what anyone did or didn't do. If you yourself know you did one thing wrong, then you did something wrong. That's just about everyone in this thread as I said before. It doesn't matter how much or what exactly anyone did at this point. Because if we really started keeping track just about everyone would have at least a week long suspension, and that's not productive. Nor is playing a frankly stupid game of tit for tat.

Unless someone can honestly say they have done absolutely nothing wrong, just let all this go. It's just pot calling the kettle black.
 
On the topic of not hating and making the ntse something better to deal with...

I've heard come arguments not voice in this thread but to me directly and I assume they are shared about what I have been saying.

Being nice doesn't mean showering people with all the compliments. Don't call a turd a diamond just to spare someone's feelings.

In the same breath however, telling someone what they did right as well as what they did wrong goes a long way. Does everyone need it? No. But coming from someone who has had their creations maliciously shit on, I've seen the memes, I've heard the comments, and boy was the ntse hell what with all my submissions becoming a massive fight and people mentioning anything and everything wrong about my submission no matter how tiny, or how related to the actual submission it was. Some people have admitted they treated me like shit and I have accepted those apologies and intend to move forward with them, but stress here causes serious real life issues sometimes and I hope to god whatever happened to me doesn't happen to anyone else ever.

So just be nice. Seriously. Submissions are people's creativity and no one likes to hear only negatives about their creativity. No one is paid to be here, so a little kindness shouldn't be too much to ask. Mention the right and the wrong.
 
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