Rejected Submission [Pact] Helka-Alpha Star System

[Arieg]

Submission Type: Faction Controlled Star System
Template Used: Modified Star System Template
Submission WIP URL: https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=wip:helka_alpha
Submission Destination URL: https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=system:helka_alpha

Faction: Colonial Pact
FM Approved Yet? Yes
Faction requires art? Yes

For Reviewers:
Contains Unapproved Sub-Articles? No
Contains New art? Yes
Previously Submitted? Yes - Template disagreement.

Notes: Once more with passion?

 

[raz]

Only far ranging traders and prospectors have stumbled upon and traded with this lonely outpost.

Estimated Population - 12,564,621,400

While far-flung from its home faction, the system seems more like an "overcrowded hiveworld outpost" since its denizens are "packed like sardines" and all. No comment here on the numbers.

Also, I still think it's important to detail how deep under the sector or far away from the closest Kikyo Sector planet it is. The article says how long it takes to reach "their motherland," so what's the problem with a little light year figure thrown back in? @Fred once said something to me about how if something isn't on the wiki you can't RTFM, and I totally agree. This seems like an essential piece of information for players and GMs to know.

 

[Kim]

The compromise was that Helka is on the same z-axis as the rest of the Kikyo Sector now.

 

[raz]

Oh, wow. That's insane, and literally everyone in the Kikyo Sector should have known 10 years ago. But okay, that answers that. Request for clarification there withdrawn.

 

[Kim]

This is conforming with what Fred proposed in the Pact relocation thread.

 

[FrostJaeger]

The only real concern that I see here is the number of orbital platforms, but, this is meant to stand out in-character. The ratio of orbital platforms to planets is abnormal, and is one of several good reasons for SAINT to investigate in the ongoing plot from what I understand. Even then, according to the military buildup page, it's only a guideline that's not supposed to be strict.

There's just one problem, @CadetNewb: your interpretation of the Military Buildup Limitations is unfortunately incorrect. The only guideline in the Limitations is the following paragraph:

If the number of active factional players is less than the number of star systems controlled by that faction, the faction is unable to expand. For example, a faction with four active members would only be able to colonize new worlds if they had three or less. This is to prevent small players from having a disproportionate influence on the SARP universe and to keep factions from sending a ship to every planet on the map at once.

Note: The above paragraph is a general guideline, and does not need to be tracked or adhered to in an “exact” fashion. It should only be invoked in the face of an unjustified factional mass-expansion, particularly one that is not done through plot-based roleplaying.

Everything else, including the part about "newly approved factions start[ing] out with one shipyard," is a mandatory rule that all factions are required to follow, @CadetNewb - and it would be extraordinarily biased (in my opinion) to argue that the Colonial Pact should be treated any differently or granted some kind of exemption.

***

More importantly, we have a plot or two waiting on this, and it's best to expedite the article along.

That's an invalid reason for "expedit[ing] the article along," @CadetNewb, as plots in the Open Roleplaying sub-forum are not affected by an article's approval status.

***

For these reasons, I'll mark this as APPROVED

For these reasons, I'd like to request that another NTSE moderator - preferably one who is not friends with @Kim, @Arieg, and/or @CadetNewb, in order to comply with the third item listed here - review this article.

 

[Kim]

@Fred

 

[raz]

Frost's coming on a little strong there, but I understand what he's getting at with the faction buildup thing. As a fellow FM, I'm striving to do things by-the-book for my faction, and it's kind of souring when others are given an exemption because it just drives up power levels beyond reasonable comparison for those of us who do abide by the buildup guide.

Not sure if that's his actual concern, but his post brought it to mind. Hope the good points he made don't get lost just because there's perennial, uh, disagreement between Frost and others.

 

[Fred]

@Arieg I've been reading around, and I don't see any indication that @Wes was wholly onboard with your numbers either. I have to lean a bit in favor of Frostjaeger's argument, you do have a lot of assets for a starter faction. There's also Raz that makes a compelling point about you being big enough to notice.

So, I'm going to ask you to try and comply with that. One shipyard. Perhaps a lower number of warships too - what you had is pretty impressive.

However, it's not my objective to actually get in the way of any roleplay you've already built on based on the previous figures you had. Therefore, I propose that your compliance to the above - if those metrics were important to whatever planned stories you had - be delivered via roleplay for what cannot be adjusted at the expense of roleplay.

Basically, trim down what you can first. Then use a narrated story event or somesuch to blow up the rest. Make a story out of this sudden vulnerability and the struggle to rebuild.

Meet that, and I think this will satisfy most of the concerns raised.

 

[Fred]

I spent 90 minutes, 75 of those past my bedtime, to address Arieg-related drama regarding this. My reward was Arieg rage-quitting on me and not coming back, despite my giving him a grace period to return and continue communication. Arieg has also pulled out his supposedly 'approved' article from the wiki.

The approach I intended to take was goal oriented. I didn't care to entertain any ongoing and perceived feuds, my focus point was going through this thread to focus on what Wes wanted:

Population: I was willing to entertain a compromise of 6 billion people (original 12b, Wes proposed 3b). It was determined that this number would still equate packed-sardines and very little of the planet is inhabitable.

Warships: no more than 250 warships supported. I don't mind indicators of civilian presence. The 140 warships I heard of is impressive, but within the set bounds and I didn't see Wes object over that.

Shipyards: Shipyards capable of producing warships should be limited to what starting factions get. I don't mind Arieg having more in the way of civilian shipyards, because it is my personal belief that there must be ten-to-hundreds of civilian vessels milling around the backdrop of our military-centric plots to help SARP function as a living universe.​

I believe establishing that was easily achievable to counter-negociate my previous point and present something that might meet Wes' satisfaction.

However, I'm faced with Arieg yanking supposedly approved content off the wiki (granted, it was content being adjusted, but it was approved). With those topics no longer existing, I'm faced with the thought that oh, this isn't the first time Arieg goes emo and yanks his stuff out. I recall that the previous time it happened, it was frowned upon and while we let it slide, he was warned not to pull of something like that again. This falls under wiki vandalism, especially in light of how it gets to inconvenience other people.

It's been argued to me that Arieg was very frustrated by the tedious process dealing with some NTSE personalities are... but I don't see why that has to concern me. I bent backward and offered an olive branch and it was slapped away. I don't recall myself suffering the temerity of other submitters before and I don't see why Arieg should be an exception.

Kim has also assured me that she was able to recoup from this. Not that this would be convenient for her, but she capable of doing it.

In light of all of the above, I UNAPPROVE this submission. In effect, there's nothing to say was approved, since there's nothing at the matching wiki links at the time of this post.

Furthermore, in light of what was effectively wiki-vandalism to which Arieg was already told not to do in the past, along with how he left three staffers dangling when he rage-quitted the process (something I deem highly disrespectful), I hold Arieg in contempt of the NTSE submission process and forbid him from creating any new submission threads until an apology letter is submitted to the Staff (Wes, Kim, Cadetnewb and I inclusively) before we consider reinstating that right.