Weapon Template Update

[FrostJaeger]

• Submission Type: Article Update
• Submission URL: Linky
• Original Article URL: Linky

• Faction: N/A
• FM Approved Yet: No, @Wes
• Faction requires art? Nope.

• Contains Unapproved Sub-Articles? Nope.
• Contains Links to Unapproved Articles? Yep.
  
• Contains New Art? Nope.
• Previously Submitted? Nope.
• Changelog: Linky

Tis' nothing but a minor flesh wound just a little something I wrote up. It - in my humble opinion and with no offense meant towards @Arieg - has the following advantages...

• It (mostly) preserves the pre-existing formatting of the current template, thereby lessening the visual differences between newer articles and older articles.
• It does not drastically increase the complexity of weapon submissions, as virtually all of the newly-added fields are not mandatory - they're either "if applicable" or "optional".
• It does not drastically increase the background knowledge required to create weapon articles - as it doesn't require anything more then the current template already does - and even provides links to several helpful Wikipedia articles.
• It does not force content creators to include extraordinarily-oversized lists in their submissions.
• It does not attempt to impose more realism on weapons within the setting.

...over what Arieg submitted here; lastly, I am formally requesting that the checklist be used by whomever reviews this submission.

 

[FrostJaeger]

To be honest I think we're just better off to sticking to the original with some modifications.

That's what this is, @Arieg.

 

[FrostJaeger]

Might I inquire about the status of this, @Wes?

 

[Wes]

There doesn't seem to be a consensus here, and personally I'm looking at the template and it's ugly and complicated and I'm thinking we could do better.

 

[FrostJaeger]

There doesn't seem to be a consensus here, and personally I'm looking at the template and it's ugly and complicated and I'm thinking we could do better.

What would you recommend changing/fixing/etc., @Wes?

Edit: Looking over previous messages in this thread, only @Arieg has posted any "dissent" - which in my opinion is probably because of the fact that this would effectively render his proposed template null and void.

 

[Ira]

I dunno it is way too complicated. These submissions should not look like operations Manuels.

We only need to know what the weapon looks like, what it sounds like, what it feels like. Anything else is fluff that won’t get written about.

 

[FrostJaeger]

I dunno it is way too complicated. These submissions should not look like operations Manuels.

That's why most of the template is optional, @Ira.

We only need to know what the weapon looks like, what it sounds like, what it feels like. Anything else is fluff that won’t get written about.

So we should include a weapon's texture - but not its tier - due to the latter being "fluff that won't get written about"? What if someone wants to...

• ...know how much a weapon costs?
• ...know how far they can shoot it?
• ...know how fast it fires?
• ...know if it's an assault rifle, a shotgun, or a machine gun?
• ...know what attachments it has?
• ...know if it shoots bullets, beams, or something else?

Is that also "fluff that won't get written about," @Ira?

 

[Arieg]

You know... as long as you presented enough information for it to be useful and allow the GM to determine just what the weapon does.... a template was never an issue.

 

[Zack]

Yeah, a decade or more ago we were trying to stuff everything we could into the templates.

We are a bit more hard science now, and a bit less comic book. We could do away with most of the stats I think.

I’ll try and find time to come up with an example this weekend

 

[FrostJaeger]

You know... as long as you presented enough information for it to be useful...

Everyone has a different definition of "useful," @Arieg.

...and allow the GM to determine just what the weapon does....

Similar to the above, some GMs - due to their different writing styles - prefer having more information then other GMs.

...a template was never an issue.

Then - no offense intended - why go to the trouble of making your own?

[...]

We are a bit more hard science now, and a bit less comic book. We could do away with most of the stats I think.

[...]

Doesn't being more "hard science" require a greater number of "stats," @Zack?

 

[Ametheliana]

I'm not saying I'm rejecting this because I can't do that. I just think this gets across the idea that I don't think the public reaction is good enough to put this into use and Wes himself does not like it.

I also want to say since we're having so much fun defaming Frost that he's a great guy and deserves a butt load of respect for what he intends to do for the site and what he wants to accomplish is sometimes shot down by y'all and it's infuriating for a mod to see on a "professional" level and as a person that has a friendship with the person you're enjoying mocking so fully and in such a confrontational manner.

Gosh, you guys are even my friends and I mean that but it needs to stop here on the forums. DM each other insults if you need to get it out, you have my blessing, but goodness gracious leave it off these forums!

 

[Zack]

I don’t think we even mentioned he who should not be named here.

It’s just a sign of the times. There aren’t a lot of other RP sites out there. We no longer need to be different by having hugely detailed articles. What we need now is to allow people to submit stuff more easily and maintain the level of quality of the submissions. It’s not something any one person is doing with templates either, a lot of stuff is built on older stuff that seemed like a good idea at the time but now we are at a place where less is more.

 

[Ametheliana]

#lessismore #minimalism #zackisahipster

I guess you can try to excuse your behavior, Zack, just like it'd be cool if you could be cool next time. No offense ^-^;;

 

[Syaoran]

Since you guys are still at this, why don't you all go back and ask; "What was wrong with the old weapon template" both sides are trying to change something that fundamentally wasn't a problem. The template could -look- better yes, but the information contained in it was pretty much just the level we needed, so why not focus on presentation instead of content. After all the only part of the old template for weapons that might've been difficult is describing how the weapon 'fires' in the first place, but as long as something gets in there that can explain the basics, it worked.

 

[FrostJaeger]

[...] There aren’t a lot of other RP sites out there.

This is the internet we're talking about, @Zack. There are hundreds of "other RP site out there."

We no longer need to be different by having hugely detailed articles.

"Why...should we make excuses to not make sarp the absolute best roleplay site on the internet?"

What we need now...

What you think we need now, @Zack.

...is to allow people to submit stuff more easily...

Like I've said three different times already, @Zack, that's why much of the proposed template is optional.

...and maintain the level of quality of the submissions.

How would this detract from a submission's level of quality, @Zack?

It’s not something any one person is doing with templates either, a lot of stuff is built on older stuff that seemed like a good idea at the time but now we are at a place where less is more.

Less can also be too little.

 

[Ametheliana]

Frost, you ignored a mod post. Would you mind abandoning this article so you can re-focus on more pressing issues on the site?

 

[FrostJaeger]

Frost, you ignored a mod post. Would you mind abandoning this article so you can re-focus on more pressing issues on the site?

Acknowledged.

 

[Ametheliana]

Thank you, Frost. At your leisure either decide to do that, fix up the article, or wait for Wes to overturn me.

I am not moving this thread unless you outright ask.

 

[Zack]

https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=wip:weapon_template_example <-- Basically this is what I was talking about. A lot of the description text can just be rolled into the about section. The only real stat that matters for the weapon is RPM, DR Tier is listed with ammo, and parts are broken out into other pages for that clean look.

Art is a must.

Additional stuff can always be added in if the person wants but this would be the minimum. Ammunition supply would be included in parts, and list how many shots per.

 

[Syaoran]

That is not really a good template. You reduce the amount of information when we already have an established standard. And if you cram all that into the about section it becomes too hard to scan for information. Also with such a low requirement it will create massive inconsistencies with article quality in terms of provided information.

 

[Ametheliana]

Sorry Zack

Not having bulletpoints for integral information is bad, forcing RP examples for every submission is bad, and minimalism is bad and just an excuse to be lazy unless you're going to keep things clean.