What can science officers/comm/sensor operators PCs do?

[Fred]

Once upon a time, SARP bridges had sensor operator/science/communication officer stations... okay, we still have it today. However, I have some problems with it as a Game Master and was hoping I could ask the community for input.

As a Game Master, I'm mostly in charge of transmitting what happens in my plot to the player characters, so that they may react upon it. Basically, all external stimuli comes from me.

In my first missions with the Miharu, I had player characters occupy those positions. unfortunately, I found myself facing large deficiencies. The first was that the Communication and Sensor Operators often end up needing to parakeet me in reporting things.

Basically, if I wanted Miyoko (Miharu's sensor operator) to report upon something she detected, I had to PM her player to give her the said readings and then she went and basically repeated what I tossed Kel's way in her own words.

Sensors in SARP are apparently rather hard to use. In Mission 2, I wanted to give Miyoko some spotlight by making a sensor survey to find a lost probe that was concealed. Apparently, though, the tools she had at hand and how they were detailed made it hard for the player (and me, I guess) to actually allow her to look like she was doing her job competently without glossing a whole lot over it.

Communication is about the same deal. I need to force feed information to the player and the said player goes through the motions of playing messenger. I find it rather ungratifying myself for the person to do, and the back-and-forth of messages in single post format often have things stretch out longer too.

The science officer posting is also tricky because of SARP's occasional technological inconsistencies along with the possible problem of the player or the game master having a limited understanding of spatial physics and such.

...the above end up making me much prefer having a non-player character be in charge of a perception/reactive role... in order to leave players in a situation where they can act and it puts me in the easier position of having the said NPC report the information and possible options as needed without intermediaries (also in the process quickening the pace a bit).

Doing so, though, sadly puts some people out of a job. I've seen people hold such positions and apparently manage to derive some fun from it, though... so I decided not to be too proud about the matter and ask for help.

You GMs whom have had these roles running successfully - any insights to offer? I'd also like to hear from the players of such crewmembers on how they cope with those roles, what they find fun and less fun about it.

Thank you.

 

[Revolver]

Well, here's my comment as a player of a Communications Officer. Personally, at least, my goal in creating a ComOps was to, as Sigourney Weaver did in Galaxy Quest, "Repeat the damn computer." And so yes, a lot of what I say to my commanding officer and to the PA squad to which I'm attached is just parroting 5tar.

Not all of it is just one-way communication from him to me, though, some of the information I ask him for in PMs trying to anticipate things that the other PCs might need. Whether it's maps, info or clearance to fire on other PAs that are showing up as friendlies.

5tar also keeps things interesting with all the other NPCs on the bridge that I interact with like the ComOps of the other, NPC squads. Things like, having to ask one for assistance when my squad got in trouble, or making sure the Bridge Commander (another PC) was kept abreast of developing situations. All together these make playing a Bridge Bunny a satisfying, interesting and fun experience.

While a lot of my bridge work is just ferrying messages back and forth between other players and the GM, it's a role I fully expected to play and I do enjoy it. I don't know how the other Players feel, but their characters are very appreciative of the help and information. I guess it seems like the Communications role is one that isn't hard to play, and it isn't very taxing on the GM as the information they're given is stuff that would've been given to the PCs anyway, but having a Player there to fill that role helps flesh out the bridge and as long as both the GM and Player realize that the character will be a parrot the majority of the time during combat situations, it can still be a rewarding experience.

 

[Gallant]

As far as sensors go, I've always tried to give the players raw material that they would have to decipher. In some ways this flies in the face of the commonly accepted "SARP computers give analysis too!" mentality, but if you give people RAW FACTS, their jobs become slightly more interesting because they have to process and apply those facts, themselves.

Sometimes this doesn't work so well. I'm not sure what to do for the communications officials - but I could easily see a ship's MEGAMI acting as the primary communications officer.

I also want to throw in something that Fred didn't mention; MEDICAL personnel. It's tough actually giving them things to do. Thoughts?

 

[Fred]

I appreciate the replies, but I'd really would like this thread not to be derailed (do your own ). This is seriously a big problem for me and I'd value any related input.

Anyone else would like to broach the topic? I'm sure there are plenty of you who'd have input on the more enjoyable ways they could roleplay on information node stations like sensors and comm (mostly sensors).

Please.

 

[Tom]

I would try to help out the comm/sensor specialists in the following ways, to make them feel special. I think, of course, it is absolutely essential to merge comm and sensors into one position, however.

Idea #1: Expertise

Give them superior knowledge and technical ability to be able to 'use' sensors/communications as much as someone with hacking capabilities would be able to hack a terminal. This means being able to recognize and decrypt encryption from enemies, be given the ability to detect and access 'hidden' communications, etc. I have a few examples that show wasys this can work without impeding either player freedoms or GM control.

Ex 1: Miharu is sitting out in space and is supporting an armor team planetside. Suddenly, communications are completely shut down. For his part, the GM reports to the player this development (how it happened). A player with initiative can use the wiki information about Miharu's comm/sensors to think up of a solution on his own or the GM can provide hints to a less-technically inclined player via the MEGAMI.

The player could decide to do things like.... change communication type, combine communication types, increase power to communications, a stronger frequency, to 'pierce' through the cloud of interference, etc. In essence, the comm/sensor specialist should be an 'engineer' for her systems and able to modify/use them in unique and interesting ways.

Ex 2: Miharu is sitting in space when, suddenly, the comm/sensor specialist is alerted to the presence of some slight anomaly or 'jump' in activity. The player investigates this without asking the captain (of course the specialist should have the authority to do so) and the GM, in his/her next post, reports her findings to the captain. The captain can then react and congratulate the specialist for good work, without impeding the GMs need to PM the player and slow things down. You can also do the same kind of idea with encrypted messaging. Let the player decrypt it... don't just assume the computer does everything for him/her.

Idea #2: The MEGAMI

The comm/sensor specialist should have a pretty intimate relationship with her. I'll bring up a comparison. An engineer is like a doctor to the MEGAMI; a comm/sensor specialist should be like a friend. While an engineer may become friends with the MEGAMI, the comm/sensor specialist is always attached to a terminal, in constant contact with MEGAMI. The specialist's job, indeed, IS to understand and be the MEGAMI's friend. In time, MEGAMI should be able to relate to the specialist, and may, in fact, pick up some of his/her quirks. Focus on developing this relationship when you have difficulty coming up with 'adventurous' or 'technical' things to do.

Make this something special, a connection that only someone who constantly talks and is in contact with the MEGAMI should have.

Idea 3: Electronic Materials support, telephone operator status

Some of this was mentioned by Revolver, but let's take it a step further. Let the sensor/comm specialist be the one to provide 'electronic' support to the PCs via maps, guides, status reports.

Also, perhaps the specialist could serve the role of a middleman in regards to ship-wide communications. He/she can direct messages in order of priority to the captain/officers on the ship. A potentially really cool aspect of this is that the specialist ends up seeing a lot of potentially classified or personal information, but is charged with the responsibility of keeping this information secret.

Potential conflicts of interest could abound here, and would provide a LOT of fuel for this player if you're going for more dramatic RP situations instead of the action-packed ones where these specialists tend to be left behind. What if the comm specialist gets a message that reveals something disturbing about his/her superior officers or star army command? Would the specialist do something about it, or let it sit inside and twist inside his/her stomach? Perhaps the specialist would take matters into his/her own hands?

As long as the GM and player discuss what they want to do with these kinds of stories, you can end up having quite an adventure that has ship-wide implications.

All from that little ol' sprite sitting at a computer terminal all day.

 

[Zack]

Talk with your players and either build a role around what they want to do or find players that can fit a role you want handled. If the player doesn't like the role, or the role can't be filled, then the role is not good for game play and should be removed/NPCed.

Also consider switching your format to:

Player Post: "Sensor Operator uses sensors"
GM Post: "The displays show this"
Player Post: "Character Reacts Accordingly"

That way they don't have to copy/paste any text and are actively involved in using the sensors, keeping watch on enemies, ect.

Ultimately though, sensor officer is not a fulfilling job. Sensors and computers can gather and distribute all information required, eliminating the need for a sensor officer altogether. The need to have someone look at the data generated by a sensor and deduce what it means was obsolete by the end of the cold war and in space it would be completely unnecessary. Unless you have someone who wants to do this kind of job, you probably shouldn't have it in the first place.



Science Officers need to know science, physics, ect, well enough IRL to allow their characters to be able to use it in game. This should require considerable work on the player's part, and there should be few science officers because of this, but ultimately that should be why science is the 'fast track' in Yamatai's Star Army. The amount of things a science officer can do in this setting is staggering! Ship design is probably the most popular but there is also forensics. Bypass razorwire by throwing a blanket over it, Remind the captain that trying to put out an electrical fire with any fire extinguisher that uses water will only cause more damage, navagate the ship when it has been damaged by putting on a space suit and using a coleostat, find out where the assassin fired from by looking at the impact angle and depth of their bullet holes, stop a sulpheric acid leak with a chocolate bar, and generally look for ways to apply science skills to the problems being faced by the crew. Most of the time tech inconsistencies and super-science shouldn't even be an issue.

A good science officer should be the go-to person for solving your problems.

 

[Nashoba]

Hi Fred,
As a player, my character only just got assigned to medical, and on the prior mission we did not have a science PC. So I haven't had an opportunity to see how it works there.

As a GM I have been thinking on this subject for the Aeon. I'm probably going to handle it the way I do in other games. Sensors are good, and computers as well. But they typically don't take the initiative. So I will be having my science officer/sensor operator post what they are scanning for. I'll provide the results. And then they can interpret them in how they report to the other characters.

 

[OsakanOne]

I tend to describe a phenomena as it would appear. It is then the job of the player to break it dow into usable lingo.

 

[Wes]

I put some of this thread into updated versions of the relevant pages:

https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=st ... operations
https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=stararmy:science

I'm going to try to respond to the OP post first:

Once upon a time, SARP bridges had sensor operator/science/communication officer stations... okay, we still have it today.

The difference is that today, almost all bridge stations are manned by the same occupation--starship operator. The older jobs have been merged. This means you can have a starship operator man more than one position and that if you want, you can rotate your bridge crew around to different bridge positions each mission.

As a Game Master, I'm mostly in charge of transmitting what happens in my plot to the player characters, so that they may react upon it. Basically, all external stimuli comes from me.

While that's true, you don't have to give them the full detail until they actually start looking. I agree with Uso's post: sensor officers should be posting their sensor use.

In my first missions with the Miharu, I had player characters occupy those positions. unfortunately, I found myself facing large deficiencies. The first was that the Communication and Sensor Operators often end up needing to parakeet me in reporting things.

The way I do it is I have Hanako give orders "Tell the starbase we are approaching and our status," and then have the communications crew member do the actual conversation either in the RP thread or over on the SACN. For sensors, you might want to give them some raw data and let them interpret it. Like, say you give them a mass sensor reading of a certain size and then let them look up what ship class it is in the wiki. Their amount of effort would then have an effect on the plot instead of just having them repeat things.

Sensors in SARP are apparently rather hard to use. In Mission 2, I wanted to give Miyoko some spotlight by making a sensor survey to find a lost probe that was concealed. Apparently, though, the tools she had at hand and how they were detailed made it hard for the player (and me, I guess) to actually allow her to look like she was doing her job competently without glossing a whole lot over it.

I agree that the wiki articles on our sensors could use significant help, making them more user-friendly and detailed, that way any starship ops or science player would be able to refer to them and feel confident.

Communication is about the same deal. I need to force feed information to the player and the said player goes through the motions of playing messenger. I find it rather ungratifying myself for the person to do, and the back-and-forth of messages in single post format often have things stretch out longer too.

If possible, some conversations could be JPed out in chat, particularly short back and forth exchanges.

The science officer posting is also tricky because of SARP's occasional technological inconsistencies along with the possible problem of the player or the game master having a limited understanding of spatial physics and such.

Maybe there should be some sort of test and/or tenure requirement for players wanting to play in the science field?

Doing so, though, sadly puts some people out of a job. I've seen people hold such positions and apparently manage to derive some fun from it, though... so I decided not to be too proud about the matter and ask for help.

Because of the boredom some medics have experienced, I asked for an automated medical center to be submitted for the Star Army, and Brian (Nashoba) wrote a great one up. Although this means less medical jobs are available, it's my hope that those players become science officers or bridge officers instead, and that infantry players and other away team members will get themselves some basic medical training--there will always be injuries.

 

[Rabbit Eclair]

As the purple-haired-Yamataian-player in question, I guess I should get in here and give some input, huh? This is going to be entirely from my perspective with playing with sensors.

I'm actually a lot with Revolver here. Repeating and interpreting the computer isn't that bad, particularly when there's an element of analysis involved. The exploding star thing way back when was a good example--the computer gave Miyoko a good amount of details, but ultimately, I did some independent research to have her elaborate on the problem a bit (and the great thing about having MEGAMI around is that 'Kel isn't sure so he looks on Wikipedia' can be nicely mirrored by 'Miyoko does 20 seconds of research on MEGAMI.')

There are really two big problems I've seen--making it an actually active post and the lack of easily-accessible information on the sensor systems.

On the first one, well, a lot of the position can just be covered by 'the character switches the sensors into [active/passive] mode and waits for something interesting.' I think part of the problem here is that the sensors are too broadly capable, inasmuch as I can tell from reading on the wiki--there's no real call for actively trying to scan each passing asteroid or anything. You turn the the omnidirectional sensors on and they work on everything within a bajillion light years, period, as far as I've ever seen any indication.

There are two ways I can see to handle this--either have sensor specialists pull double duty, so they can be doing something else while waiting for signals (which is sort of the position Miyoko's in now), or just constantly throw out stuff worthy of investigation. Instead of 'the sensors turn on and they don't detect any vessels nearby,' maybe 'the sensors turn on, detecting four thousand small planetoids within a five light-year radius, as well as three derelict ships.' Is there registration information on the ships? Is there any indication of what happened to them? How long have they been here? Can we deduce anything about the system by where they are? What about the asteroids; are they dense enough for us to use as cover? Dense enough that we'll need to plot a course through them? Dense enough that somebody could be using them as cover? If so we'll have to take a closer look or give them a healthy leeway. Even if none of this ends up pressingly relevant to the mission, it's something to do--as your specialist in looking at things, the sensors specialist is the one who should have to worry about being extra alert. If sensors are just something you can turn on and wait for them to yell about enemies, there's no real reason IC'ly or OOC'ly to have somebody specifically for the role.

The way I see it, sensors are a ship's sensory organs. Nobody wants two paragraphs describing exactly how I look at a strange rock and decide to squint because it's sunny and then my pupils dilate and then I tilt my head so that I'm looking directly at it and and and. The interesting part is what I'm seeing.

Sensors in SARP are apparently rather hard to use. In Mission 2, I wanted to give Miyoko some spotlight by making a sensor survey to find a lost probe that was concealed. Apparently, though, the tools she had at hand and how they were detailed made it hard for the player (and me, I guess) to actually allow her to look like she was doing her job competently without glossing a whole lot over it.

I agree that the wiki articles on our sensors could use significant help, making them more user-friendly and detailed, that way any starship ops or science player would be able to refer to them and feel confident.

... and largely also this. "Omnidirectional sensors of the M-IES include aetheric/quintessential field/differential/particle/wave sensors, scalar field sensors, subspace mass sensors, soliton sensors, moh sensors, unified field mass/energy sensors, neutrino/tachyon sensors, and the all-seeing eye of the TQP-RDD." I can tell you what tachyons and neutrinos are, but I couldn't tell you what a neutrino/tachyon sensor within SARP does in practice to save my life. The MEGAMI article fleshes some of them out, but there are still redundancies--It looks to me like both the Subspace Mass Detector and TQP-RDD would be useful for detecting big objects at long-range, so it doesn't look like there's much reason to use the former over the latter. And then there are some that I haven't seen any real detail on: What does an Aether Wave Detection and Ranging System do? Judging by the name, I'd think it detects thinigs using aether, but there's already a sensor for that. Whatever it does, it can do it up to 10 light-years away. The few sensors whose purposes I can describe are omnidirectional, so they fall into the 'turn it on and wait for something interesting to show up' problem I mentioned earlier.

 

[Fred]

What about the sensors and communication systems offered by the UOC's MIKO Computer Suite?

When Andrew and I worked on it (before he decided to steal it to make it UOC use only, royally screwing me over what I had intended to use for Miharu's refit), the goal was pretty much to improve on Yamatai's IES and make the devices offered by it more approachable.

Here's a list of the sensors and comm systems tied to the MIKO. What do you think of them?

 

[Zack]

It looks nice, and it is good to see a decent writeup for the hyperspace communications (which are blocked by interdiction, something most people forget) but really you shouldn't need to explain what fiberoptics, radio, and lasers are. If the player REALLY doesn't know and can't figure it out then they shouldn't be playing with those systems.

 

[Rabbit Eclair]

What about the sensors and communication systems offered by the UOC's MIKO Computer Suite?

When Andrew and I worked on it (before he decided to steal it to make it UOC use only, royally screwing me over what I had intended to use for Miharu's refit), the goal was pretty much to improve on Yamatai's IES and make the devices offered by it more approachable.

Here's a list of the sensors and comm systems tied to the MIKO. What do you think of them?

They look much, much more approachable.

 

[Teddo]

Well, here's my comment as a player of a Communications Officer. Personally, at least, my goal in creating a ComOps was to, as Sigourney Weaver did in Galaxy Quest, "Repeat the damn computer."

Holy shit!!! That WAS Sigourney Weaver! I totally never recognized her!

and what's also amusing is that I was thinking about that line just recently.


I mean... *cough* sensors and stuff. yeah. I definitely disagree with the 'parakeet' and 'they have to look for it' concepts. As has been pointed out, omnidirectional sensors. I think a good method is just giving them some raw facts of what they see. That way, it even takes some of the burden off the GM. The player handles putting it in nice IC wording for everyone.

 

[Wes]

When Andrew and I worked on it (before he decided to steal it to make it UOC use only, royally screwing me over what I had intended to use for Miharu's refit)

Yamatai has access to the MIKO plan too, we just haven't taken it upon ourselves to produce any (kind of like the Ionoche, another Star Army pre-UOC design that went to the UOC after the split).

If you want to use it for the Miharu refit, I'm fine with it.

 

[Fred]

Naww. At that point it would be like crying over spilled milk. I'm just especially miffed the idea, from my point of view, effectively went to a waste.

The concept of the MIKO computers was effectively to pose as the hardware that would house a ship's semi-sentient AI, and have in addition precise components to it that would define the computer's roles.

I've always felt like people innately preferred calling the computers in the SAoY "Megami" and "Kami" by default, so my objective with that was to dispose of the whole CIES, WIES, MIES and KIES nomenclature to allow those two primary 'god' names to be used... via the Miko computer unit. The specific capabilities of the said computers wouldn't be based on the AI labels (which I imagined Megami would be for a female AI persona and Kami for a male AI persona) but on the added hardware suites.

The UOC Mikos, though, barely tapped (as in, they didn't) in that thematic. They could've been called anything else (like "M.Q.C.S.") and done their jobs while tapping on the modular idea I brought up to Andrew along with them. Andrew wrote most of the thing from sparse draft notes I had - so he's entitled to much of the credit for fleshing it out... the thematics behind it are a wholly different thing in my eyes though.

When it was first submitted, I was okay with it because I didn't mind it seeing wide use and compromise through Andrew's NovaCorp-based MFY, but then there was the UOC separation, and then the adamant point of view that the Mikos should be unique to the UOC - barring me from using it as a possible upgrade to the currently somewhat convulted Kessaku Integrated Electronic Suites (no offense meant to you, Wes - I just think they're old and didn't stand the test of time very well).

I'd consider myself a lesser man if I went and used it anyways. I know it'd create drama. But yes, I have resented it for a long while now and been more or less pissed at seeing a good thematic idea get tossed in the figurative garbage in my eyes. It's also once of the few ideas I had that I thought was thematically good and that I lost, and feel concern that I can't find an equally better one, hence my frustration.

This is kind of a tangent on this thread, though.

 

[Ametheliana]

I expected a lot of fun to be had as a science officer and I haven't been let down. I've been on the away team, though, I think that helps quite a bit in avoiding the issues you face. There is always something science-y to be done aboard or away, though, and I think that there are more options than the ones you were giving yourself.

I'm also happy there is no test like you mentioned, Wes.

Maybe there should be some sort of test and/or tenure requirement for players wanting to play in the science field?

Not because I don't think I would have passed, but because it would have deterred me from playing what has been really fun to play.