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Yamatai - Midori-Class Scout Ship
- Thread starter Nashoba
- Start date
Fred
Retired Staff
I've been waiting to comment on this. Here's what I hope you'll find a constructive review of the Midori.
About the Midori Class
Would it not be more accurate to say that the Midori-class is a successor to the Nozomi-class?
Visuals:
It's pretty decent, though the front looks a tad boring. I'll miss the Yui's teardrop shape or the Nozomi's interestingly shaped prong prow - it looks more round than sleek (DOGA limitations, maybe?). The sensor booms aren't the most visually appealing concept ever, but it's an original one (and they do give, when stowed, an interesting shape to the rear of the ship).
The deckplans are well detailed to make this good plotship material, but I find them rather bland looking. The Yui-class' deckplan was more appealing to look at for its choice of colors and the Nozomi-class's deckplan had small drawings of the furniture inside the rooms as well. On the bright side, though, it looks like the Midori's deckplans have more sense and can stuff in a little more hardware than before, with less crew needed to run it (though I find it has lots of onboard vehicles for a crew of 14).
Overall it's functional and utilitarian, which was probably the point. Unfortunately it lacks a bit of the sense of glamour I felt from the predecessors.
Propulsion:
High STL speed makes it nimble in combat. Moderatingly high speed not on par with interception duties but still pretty fast (but it also means interceptors will catch up to it). Fold speed high and probably pretty good for fast deployments.
It looks adequate for a long-range rapid-deployment scout. If this follows the new stat tables, though, I would have thought outpacing interceptors to escape confrontation would've been a priority.
Deck 1:
Using Avionics for ship sensors in SARP is a first, I think (at least that I noticed). I find it a little odd given these are ships and not airplanes... but okay. *shrugs*
I'm a little surprised about the bridge. It's positioned more at the front of the ship than I would've expected - the Yui and Nozomi predecessors had it positioned close to the center-line or the rear, which made the bridge less prone to taking damage in frontal attacks. Ramming speed for Midori scouts is probably not as attractive an option as it was before (no complaints - just pointing it out).
The shuttlebay is at the back of the ship like the Yui was, rather than splitting the ship in the middle like the Nozomi. Good move.
Deck 2:
Unnamed room left of the laundry. Free space? A label saying so might be useful.
Strange location for the laundry - I would've expected it to be on Deck1. Space constraints, probably.
PA Rack without a rapid launch bay? I'm glad to see that - airlocks don't see enough use in SARP. ~_~
The layout is occasionally awkward. You have to cross engineering to get to the vehicle bay? There's a recreation room and a fabrication room next to the main computer rather than sensors? (I would've thought the sensor booms would've been closer to the main computer, though the IES' proximity to the avionics makes sense).
I'm hoping that when it roleplay, due to this, the ship will feel more submarine-like than previous KFY offerings. I was picturing engineering more like a machine shop-like area with monitoring tools, pressure tanks, conduits, life support hub and specialized instrumentation to handle the drive areas while people could still walk through it to access the vehicles.
Also, wouldn't it be a good idea to make the doors leading through the cargo bay, engineering and vehicle bay bigger to account for large pieces of cargo being carried around? (I would've said the same thing for the shuttlebay, but the shower and toilets are in the way).
Overdeck/Subdeck:
The subdeck serving as maintenance area was a feature of the Yui. I'm glad to see it returned in the Midori, and even used in the same far as an overdeck.
Armored Hull:
Whoa! This thing has twice the hull armor a Plumeria has. I'd really suggest, considering this is a scoutship, to see it toned down to 50cm or less.
Escape pods:
Huh. At first, I thought you had the possibility to pack in 3 shuttles to allow your crew to be evacuated... but now I see three escape pods.
If they are under an hinomaru symbol, do you plan to add it to the model?
Also, escape pods, last I heard, were 3.5m x 4m x 4m. Would that really fit into your overdeck?
Passageways:
Do they lead to the base of each booms? Are they used for maintenance? If so, I think it'd be more evocative for the users to mention it.
Also, I thought Star Army ships combined airlocks with passageways. I find it a little odd how you decided to have an airlock only on one side of the ship - most KFY vessels tend to do it symmetrically.
Armament:
Geez, those Z1 torpedoes are pretty convenient. I'm not sure earlier vessels could have had afforded having small aft tubes like that with the AS-7s.
I like the ammunition loadout for the torpedoes. Just enough to last a short fight, with the Minori hitting brutally hard.
The positron cannons leave me a little at odd for a few reasons:
1. It means the Minori needs to store anti-matter somewhere. Anti-Matter is volatile and finite, making it an odd choice for a small long-range vessel to use as its backup weaponry after the torpedoes.
2. The Minori is obviously a ship that can make atmospheric entry in order to use its vehicles. However, once in an atmosphere, anti-matter weapons won't function. Unless it would rely on its small supply of torpedoes (of questionable use within a biosphere) the Midori could lack much in the way of defensive capabilities.
3. The position of the mounts are over the fore/dorsal side of the vessel; that seems to limit its field of fire to a degree. Seeing the lack of AA capabilities, wouldn't it be a good idea to position the cannons as turrets on each side of the ship? That would allow each turreted weapon to account for much wider firing arcs.
Also, I think the graviton projector might be better positioned at the rear of the ship, between the shuttlebay and the vehicle bay. That would allow it to tow vessels and to ease in the arrival of cargo, shuttle, etc (since there's no graviton projector inside your shuttlebay).
About the Midori Class
Would it not be more accurate to say that the Midori-class is a successor to the Nozomi-class?
Visuals:
It's pretty decent, though the front looks a tad boring. I'll miss the Yui's teardrop shape or the Nozomi's interestingly shaped prong prow - it looks more round than sleek (DOGA limitations, maybe?). The sensor booms aren't the most visually appealing concept ever, but it's an original one (and they do give, when stowed, an interesting shape to the rear of the ship).
The deckplans are well detailed to make this good plotship material, but I find them rather bland looking. The Yui-class' deckplan was more appealing to look at for its choice of colors and the Nozomi-class's deckplan had small drawings of the furniture inside the rooms as well. On the bright side, though, it looks like the Midori's deckplans have more sense and can stuff in a little more hardware than before, with less crew needed to run it (though I find it has lots of onboard vehicles for a crew of 14).
Overall it's functional and utilitarian, which was probably the point. Unfortunately it lacks a bit of the sense of glamour I felt from the predecessors.
Propulsion:
High STL speed makes it nimble in combat. Moderatingly high speed not on par with interception duties but still pretty fast (but it also means interceptors will catch up to it). Fold speed high and probably pretty good for fast deployments.
It looks adequate for a long-range rapid-deployment scout. If this follows the new stat tables, though, I would have thought outpacing interceptors to escape confrontation would've been a priority.
Deck 1:
Using Avionics for ship sensors in SARP is a first, I think (at least that I noticed). I find it a little odd given these are ships and not airplanes... but okay. *shrugs*
I'm a little surprised about the bridge. It's positioned more at the front of the ship than I would've expected - the Yui and Nozomi predecessors had it positioned close to the center-line or the rear, which made the bridge less prone to taking damage in frontal attacks. Ramming speed for Midori scouts is probably not as attractive an option as it was before (no complaints - just pointing it out).
The shuttlebay is at the back of the ship like the Yui was, rather than splitting the ship in the middle like the Nozomi. Good move.
Deck 2:
Unnamed room left of the laundry. Free space? A label saying so might be useful.
Strange location for the laundry - I would've expected it to be on Deck1. Space constraints, probably.
PA Rack without a rapid launch bay? I'm glad to see that - airlocks don't see enough use in SARP. ~_~
The layout is occasionally awkward. You have to cross engineering to get to the vehicle bay? There's a recreation room and a fabrication room next to the main computer rather than sensors? (I would've thought the sensor booms would've been closer to the main computer, though the IES' proximity to the avionics makes sense).
I'm hoping that when it roleplay, due to this, the ship will feel more submarine-like than previous KFY offerings. I was picturing engineering more like a machine shop-like area with monitoring tools, pressure tanks, conduits, life support hub and specialized instrumentation to handle the drive areas while people could still walk through it to access the vehicles.
Also, wouldn't it be a good idea to make the doors leading through the cargo bay, engineering and vehicle bay bigger to account for large pieces of cargo being carried around? (I would've said the same thing for the shuttlebay, but the shower and toilets are in the way).
Overdeck/Subdeck:
The subdeck serving as maintenance area was a feature of the Yui. I'm glad to see it returned in the Midori, and even used in the same far as an overdeck.
Armored Hull:
Whoa! This thing has twice the hull armor a Plumeria has. I'd really suggest, considering this is a scoutship, to see it toned down to 50cm or less.
Escape pods:
Huh. At first, I thought you had the possibility to pack in 3 shuttles to allow your crew to be evacuated... but now I see three escape pods.
If they are under an hinomaru symbol, do you plan to add it to the model?
Also, escape pods, last I heard, were 3.5m x 4m x 4m. Would that really fit into your overdeck?
Passageways:
Do they lead to the base of each booms? Are they used for maintenance? If so, I think it'd be more evocative for the users to mention it.
Also, I thought Star Army ships combined airlocks with passageways. I find it a little odd how you decided to have an airlock only on one side of the ship - most KFY vessels tend to do it symmetrically.
Armament:
Geez, those Z1 torpedoes are pretty convenient. I'm not sure earlier vessels could have had afforded having small aft tubes like that with the AS-7s.
I like the ammunition loadout for the torpedoes. Just enough to last a short fight, with the Minori hitting brutally hard.
The positron cannons leave me a little at odd for a few reasons:
1. It means the Minori needs to store anti-matter somewhere. Anti-Matter is volatile and finite, making it an odd choice for a small long-range vessel to use as its backup weaponry after the torpedoes.
2. The Minori is obviously a ship that can make atmospheric entry in order to use its vehicles. However, once in an atmosphere, anti-matter weapons won't function. Unless it would rely on its small supply of torpedoes (of questionable use within a biosphere) the Midori could lack much in the way of defensive capabilities.
3. The position of the mounts are over the fore/dorsal side of the vessel; that seems to limit its field of fire to a degree. Seeing the lack of AA capabilities, wouldn't it be a good idea to position the cannons as turrets on each side of the ship? That would allow each turreted weapon to account for much wider firing arcs.
Also, I think the graviton projector might be better positioned at the rear of the ship, between the shuttlebay and the vehicle bay. That would allow it to tow vessels and to ease in the arrival of cargo, shuttle, etc (since there's no graviton projector inside your shuttlebay).
This review is for: Midori-Class Scout Ship
The submitted article is/has…
[X] A general topic sentence under the title header
[X] Artwork (Art will probably be required only for PC races, starships, power armor, and guns.)
[X] Needed and/or useful to the setting
[X] In the proper format/template
[X] Proofread for spelling and grammar
[X] Easy to read and understand (not a lengthy mass of technobabble)
[X] Wikified (terms that could be a link should be a link)
[X] No red and/or broken links
[X] Reasonably scientifically plausible
[X] Reasonably neutral point of view
The submitted article is/does not…
[X] Overpowered (or cutting tech for a faction with little or no roleplay)
[X] Obtusely redundant
[X] Contain copy pasta descriptions of systems or interior compartments
[X] Unauthorized by faction managers or player-controlled corporation
[X] Contain references to IC events that have not occurred (SM must authorize retcons)
[X] Use second-person language (“you” or “your”) unless it is an instructional guide aimed at players.
[X] Use bombastic language (“virtually immune,” “nearly indestructible,” “insanely powerful,” “horrible effects”)
[X] Use an unbalanced header/text ratio (many headers but sections are one-liners)
[X] Use major unapproved sub-articles that should be submitted separately
[X] Lacking Detail
[X] Images hosted on sites other than stararmy.com (Photobucket, Imageshack, etc are not allowed)
The article has…
[X] Speeds in compliance with the Starship Speed Standard, if applicable (SAoY scouts category)
[X] Damage Capacity and Damage Ratings in compliance with the DR Guidelines
[X] The in-character year of creation/manufacture. (Should be current year. Future years not allowed).
[X] The Standard Product Nomenclature System, if applicable.
Summary
Looks great!
Status: , Pending
Notes
Nomenclature Ke-D5 is already taken by the Type 30 Space Yacht. Ke-D6 is available.
Civilian ship needed to pair with it.
You just barely got into the Level 2 starships DR category, lol
Tall decks! Maybe good for filling with food boxes for long trips.
No AA guns? Where is the anti-battlepod defense?
(If a military starship) URL of accompanying civilian ship is: UNKNOWN
I intend to finish this review by: June 1 2010
The submitted article is/has…
[X] A general topic sentence under the title header
[X] Artwork (Art will probably be required only for PC races, starships, power armor, and guns.)
[X] Needed and/or useful to the setting
[X] In the proper format/template
[X] Proofread for spelling and grammar
[X] Easy to read and understand (not a lengthy mass of technobabble)
[X] Wikified (terms that could be a link should be a link)
[X] No red and/or broken links
[X] Reasonably scientifically plausible
[X] Reasonably neutral point of view
The submitted article is/does not…
[X] Overpowered (or cutting tech for a faction with little or no roleplay)
[X] Obtusely redundant
[X] Contain copy pasta descriptions of systems or interior compartments
[X] Unauthorized by faction managers or player-controlled corporation
[X] Contain references to IC events that have not occurred (SM must authorize retcons)
[X] Use second-person language (“you” or “your”) unless it is an instructional guide aimed at players.
[X] Use bombastic language (“virtually immune,” “nearly indestructible,” “insanely powerful,” “horrible effects”)
[X] Use an unbalanced header/text ratio (many headers but sections are one-liners)
[X] Use major unapproved sub-articles that should be submitted separately
[X] Lacking Detail
[X] Images hosted on sites other than stararmy.com (Photobucket, Imageshack, etc are not allowed)
The article has…
[X] Speeds in compliance with the Starship Speed Standard, if applicable (SAoY scouts category)
[X] Damage Capacity and Damage Ratings in compliance with the DR Guidelines
[X] The in-character year of creation/manufacture. (Should be current year. Future years not allowed).
[X] The Standard Product Nomenclature System, if applicable.
Summary
Looks great!
Status: , Pending
Notes
Nomenclature Ke-D5 is already taken by the Type 30 Space Yacht. Ke-D6 is available.
Civilian ship needed to pair with it.
You just barely got into the Level 2 starships DR category, lol
Tall decks! Maybe good for filling with food boxes for long trips.
No AA guns? Where is the anti-battlepod defense?
(If a military starship) URL of accompanying civilian ship is: UNKNOWN
I intend to finish this review by: June 1 2010
Fred, that would be Wes' call. I started this based on this entry from the SAoY Equipment page
Yui-class Scout (Outdated - needs modernization or replacement)
Actually the decks are 4 meters, the five was left over from cut and paste. And my interpretation of the 4 meters is 3 meters are actual space that the people move through, .5 meters above and below are for structural support, and comprise the space for maintenance conduits. Between two decks.
Adjusted the armor thickness to a total of .4m
As for the escape pods dimensions are:
Length: 3m
Width: 3m
Height: 3m
Location of the Escape pods is 2.5 meters of overdeck clearance, and the .5 meters of the ceiling structure for deck 1.
Added text to clarify the location, and how entry is gained.
As for vehicles, I am leaving that up to the individual crews, I'm just showing what can fit in the space provided.
Avionics changed to Sensors, sue me, I momentarily lapsed back to my Air Force Days.
As for the bridge location, first is "set in a reinforced bulkhead area." to help protect it from damage, please note that the space indicated is square but the bridge is more circular.
As for the empty room next to the laundry, the page already says this
"Free Space
On deck two starboard side there is an empty room. This space was left free so that the crew of the ship could customize its usage. "
And you are visualizing the Engineering space correctly, that main space other than the reactors is mainly control, the two decks of Drive area is where the CDD, FOLD and STL drive components are located.
Actually I had forgotten to include the AA, thank goodness for the Over and Under decks.
Also included a the description of the access to the Sensor array to the page and the images.
Added an image showing the Hinomaru jettisoned, the hull sections above the pods ejected and the three escape pods launching.
Civilian design Henkei Ge-Y1-5a - Patrol Variant
Civilian design Henkei Ge-Y1-5a - Patrol Variant
Kai
Retired Staff
What I'm wondering is why this ship has such a high DR when it has a relatively thin (.2 m) shell of a Medium armor, when a Larger ship with thicker armor in the Heavy class Has lower DR.
Kai
Retired Staff
I did read that wrong, but it's still only .4 meters (if you read it correctly) of Yamataiaum. If This is allowed to have 20 SP with thinner armor of a Lower class, then I should be justified in adjusting what I submitted to having greater than the maximum DR.
Doing this would set a bad precedent.
Doing this would set a bad precedent.
SP is set by a ship's size class, modified by armor material. However, thickness isn't even included in the system and there's no chart that matches thickness to SP...so any thickness-based concerns are irrelevant when you attempt to apply them to SP.
I have no idea why you listed 18 SP in your submission, but that's an issue with the Kouken and not the Midori. If you want to change it to 20 SP, make a thread for it. This is the second time I've said this and I would not like to repeat myself again, Kai.
Additionally, we're approximately 16 hours away from the ship stats system being revised, where armor material isn't even a factor in SP.
I have no idea why you listed 18 SP in your submission, but that's an issue with the Kouken and not the Midori. If you want to change it to 20 SP, make a thread for it. This is the second time I've said this and I would not like to repeat myself again, Kai.
Additionally, we're approximately 16 hours away from the ship stats system being revised, where armor material isn't even a factor in SP.
Kai
Retired Staff
I'm not complaining the Kouken's SP is too low, I'm pointing out that the Midori's is too high.
it uses a weaker armor, which means it shouldn't have 20 SP anyway, regardless of thickness or size class.
I don't know how the new system works, and if it throws out armor material as a factor in the strength of a ship's armor, then it is not realistic or even logical at all. Why are you changing from one broken system to another broken one?
Anyway, My comment Is that a ship that's barely in its size class, with a Medium grade armor, should not have the maximum SP for that size class, it's ridiculous.
it uses a weaker armor, which means it shouldn't have 20 SP anyway, regardless of thickness or size class.
I don't know how the new system works, and if it throws out armor material as a factor in the strength of a ship's armor, then it is not realistic or even logical at all. Why are you changing from one broken system to another broken one?
Anyway, My comment Is that a ship that's barely in its size class, with a Medium grade armor, should not have the maximum SP for that size class, it's ridiculous.
Soresu
Well-Known Member
Technically it should classify as "Yamadura" due to the fact both are used, and in negligible enough amounts that both should count as one solid layer. Multiple Shield Layers do not inherently strengthen a shield, and neither should this (I'm just kind of working off the multi-shield thing here.).
Soresu
Well-Known Member
Still. The Durandium content of the double layer hull outweighs the Yamataium by sixty centimeters in makeup. Instead of using the Durandium if the intent was for the max value, why not just use straight Yamataium and avoid the fuss?
Even though Durandium is "lighter", it still makes up the majority. It should theoretically count as a medium armor due to the lower heavy armor content. Ultimately however, the decision rests with you as you hold sway over KFY related military vehicles.
Even though Durandium is "lighter", it still makes up the majority. It should theoretically count as a medium armor due to the lower heavy armor content. Ultimately however, the decision rests with you as you hold sway over KFY related military vehicles.
Fred
Retired Staff
This kind of debate is especially what the DR guidelines are not supposed to do.
Nashoba decided that his Midori scout would have the best armor value possible. As I see it, the controversy ends there.
I really don't see why there would be such controversy over the actual thickness of the armor. My Himiko-class Miharu has 150cm of double-layered yamataium armor with zesuaium plating and xiulurium plating... and today I find it silly and think that if I would go and redo it, it should be more like around 75cm.
Oh boy, even then, I'd have a 30 SP ship that would have less armor than Kai's ship. Would I be in the right mind to go and tell Kai that his thickness isn't right because it ends up being over my own standards? Of course not.
But the point is that I felt satisfied that I had given my ship the heavily armored feel I wanted it to have. If Kai wanted a heavy armored feel to his ship, that caused him to choose to make the fluff text for the armor thick.
I was the one whom made a comment earlier to convince Nashoba to make the armor less thick, and it was only because I thought it'd make sense for a scout to have slightly thinner armor than what the Plumeria gunships (active frontline warships) have.
I don't get you guys. The values for the thickness are thrown up in the air in a very arbitrary fashion. It also shouldn't matter that much, because we all have our different standards of viewing these kinds of things. Let's not start tripping over the specifics of this. I don't see the armor thickness of the Midori bothering the RP of anyone.
Nashoba decided that his Midori scout would have the best armor value possible. As I see it, the controversy ends there.
I really don't see why there would be such controversy over the actual thickness of the armor. My Himiko-class Miharu has 150cm of double-layered yamataium armor with zesuaium plating and xiulurium plating... and today I find it silly and think that if I would go and redo it, it should be more like around 75cm.
Oh boy, even then, I'd have a 30 SP ship that would have less armor than Kai's ship. Would I be in the right mind to go and tell Kai that his thickness isn't right because it ends up being over my own standards? Of course not.
But the point is that I felt satisfied that I had given my ship the heavily armored feel I wanted it to have. If Kai wanted a heavy armored feel to his ship, that caused him to choose to make the fluff text for the armor thick.
I was the one whom made a comment earlier to convince Nashoba to make the armor less thick, and it was only because I thought it'd make sense for a scout to have slightly thinner armor than what the Plumeria gunships (active frontline warships) have.
I don't get you guys. The values for the thickness are thrown up in the air in a very arbitrary fashion. It also shouldn't matter that much, because we all have our different standards of viewing these kinds of things. Let's not start tripping over the specifics of this. I don't see the armor thickness of the Midori bothering the RP of anyone.
Soresu
Well-Known Member
I don't care if the armor is thick or not. Thickness was being brought up, and I was using it as an example by way of total material makeup of the plating itself. Going by what he listed, it shouldn't count as a heavy armor by admission of the described section. I'm trying to focus more on the makeup of the hull and (DR Scale) class of it.
So I ask again. Why not just use straight Yamataium instead of a double layer hull and avoid the fuss if the intent was for the maximum allotted value?
So I ask again. Why not just use straight Yamataium instead of a double layer hull and avoid the fuss if the intent was for the maximum allotted value?
While there is Durandium armor parts the main armor layers are pure Yamataium. You woudn't reduce the Plumeria's armor for adding a leayer fo the weaker Xiulurium stealth armor and we shouldn't reduce the Midori's armor for having an extra layer of Durandium. There's more than enough Yamataium that it could easily be its own armor even if the Durandium was replaced with a reservoir of coolant or something.
I agree with Fred. The armor thickness and extra layers are just fluff.
I agree with Fred. The armor thickness and extra layers are just fluff.
The Durandium is not part of the armor. It is part of the ships frame. The double hull design was so that the Xiulurium was present on the out layer.
For anything to do damage to the ship, it has to get through .4cm of Yamataium.
Its not different than most of the ship designs I've made except that this one has the Xiulurium. The frame of the ship is not the armor. ANd its the armor that determines the ships defenses.
For anything to do damage to the ship, it has to get through .4cm of Yamataium.
Its not different than most of the ship designs I've made except that this one has the Xiulurium. The frame of the ship is not the armor. ANd its the armor that determines the ships defenses.
