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Rejected Submission 4th Elysian Empire

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Zack

Zack

Inactive Member
Submission Type: NPC group
Submission URL: https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=wip:faction:4th_elysian_celestial_empire

Faction: 4th Elysian Empire / USO
FM Approved Yet? Yes
Faction requires art? Yes

For Reviewers:
Contains Unapproved Sub-Articles? No
Contains New art? Yes
Previously Submitted? No

Notes:

One of the NPC groups that has shown up in the western starmap area during the course of the 188604 plot. I'm just now getting around to putting together what I have on them into wiki articles.
 
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Either its an NPC faction that is part of what I'm doing with my plot, in which case I give my own FM approval for it.

Or since its a break off of the old Elysians then Wes is FM in which case he said it was ok in the GM thread for 188604.

Either way, posting it here is where we sort out what needs to happen for approval.
 
Whichever. I wasn't aware he had given approval of anything. Can you link to it?

EDIT: Oh, GM. I'll look for it.
 
Doshii Jun said:
Wouldn't @Wes still be the FM over Elysian elements?
Click to expand...

Elysia, like Xiuluria, is a Suzerainty. Definition follows.

Suzerainty (/ˈsjuːzərənti/ or /ˈsjuːzərɛnti/) is a situation in which a powerful region or people controls the foreign policy and international relations of a tributary vassal state while allowing the subservient nation internal autonomy.

This is from Wikipedia.

It is my understanding that Elysia was completely subjugated by the Star Army of Yamatai. Everything to do with Elysia has to do with him, even if he delegates it to Frost. Has this been run past @Wes?
 
I understand breakaways, extremist remnant groups, etc., But @Gallant has a point. From what I know, Elysia was completely absorbed to Yamatai. Why would a fourth empire arise if it would be immediately threatened by the largest empire in the area?
 
This sub-faction seems very, very, very bold for an unsupported government-in-exile. I'd find it more plausible if they found help, rather than bootstrapped themselves, or if they were more cautious and in hiding. Otherwise it seems strange that their lives aren't so consumed by gunboat diplomacy and resource-gathering that they don't have much time left over to be credible antagonists.

Clarify, does the 'True Elysians' restriction include Caelisolans? If so, it'd also be useful to clarify what their status is in this new-new-Elysian society, if not as citizens. It's not clear if Plebeians have higher status here than elsewhere, either, since the word 'Elysian' is used every time.
 
For the millionth time, it's "Kikyo Sector," Zack. Wew.
Doshii Jun said:
So this is the one-world spin-off?
Click to expand...
Since that's exactly what Zack referred to in his post, I'm gonna go with "obviously." So this was approved before Frost took over.
 
Fixed the sector name. That's probably a mistake I'm going to make again as spell check can not save me.
 
Two things that really stuck out to me as thing I'm not sure about it being "in-character" for the Elysians to do:
  • Making copies of people's "souls" for this breakaway
  • Making these "chimera" slaves out of mixed ST bits.
If the soul is sacred to Elysians, they shouldn't be messing with this way.

Also the article doesn't properly indicate it is a small breakaway NPC faction that has little to do with the real Elysian empire that continues to exist as as a part of Yamatai.
 
Aside from this not seeming very Elysian at all, and it not going through @FrostJaeger who was put in charge of the Elysians, and is listed on the page that list FMs so there's no reason not to know he was FM if research was done. But from what I'm reading of this article it doesn't even really make sense, not only is their founding too far back, with the previous FMs not having made any steps for this previously(and stuff was being done with the Elysians between then and now) But also this is marked as an 'USO' article. Which makes absolutely no sense. Elysians have a habit of looking down on non Elysians, and USO is run by a -neko-. Why would they be disgruntled about being subservient to Yamatai and then hop in with USO? (Which it's not even explained how they ended up working together at all in the first place) This just looks like an out of character power grab to me.
 
They're antagonists. They're not working with USO, they're working against it. The reason they're doing so much with STs and chimeras is to make them look like obvious bad guys, and to explain how they might have enough power and resources to be a credible large-scale threat. It's the same principle behind reviving the imperial remnants, in either Star Wars or Star Fox, to go back in for another round under a new leader, with a new superweapon. I find that a bit cheap if there isn't a transition to a new threat hidden behind it, but it's still usually deemed acceptable for the sake of allowing a new story to happen.

There's a lot of things that are still unexplained that are troubling me, though. Elysian society has never, ever been 'for Elysians', since Elysians have been traditionally divided between the Patricians and Plebieans, the former of which hold a great sense of noblesse oblige toward the latter, and the latter who've traditionally served the former unquestioningly. That makes it hard to understand how they'd form a real 'nationalist movement', it seems it would require a thorough transformation of their social structure into one where all the all the old divisions are gone and have been replaced with new ones, French Revolution-style.

This article explains their new political structure and how they interact with other races, but it doesn't say anything about the new social structure of these Elysians themselves. It just keeps referring to them all as 'Elysians', as if we should already know what that means. It doesn't seem to be talking about old school Patricians and Plebeians, or the new system with Caelisolans in the middle. Instead it seems to be some sort of even newer group that's formed a more homogenous identity out of all or most of the old Elysian social classes. Sort of like a bunch of 'unfettered' ex-nobles and low-born Nietzschian academics performing a very grand experiment? That's my best guess at an explanation for this...
 
Wes said:
Two things that really stuck out to me as thing I'm not sure about it being "in-character" for the Elysians to do:
  • Making copies of people's "souls" for this breakaway
  • Making these "chimera" slaves out of mixed ST bits.
If the soul is sacred to Elysians, they shouldn't be messing with this way.

Also the article doesn't properly indicate it is a small breakaway NPC faction that has little to do with the real Elysian empire that continues to exist as as a part of Yamatai.
Click to expand...
I could see an extremist group defying standards. There are certain real world groups who skew their religious beliefs with political agendas and 'brain-washing' of their people to create terror cells. It's not right by any means but they still do it.
 
Rizzo said:
I could see an extremist group defying standards. There are certain real world groups who skew their religious beliefs with political agendas and 'brain-washing' of their people to create terror cells. It's not right by any means but they still do it.
Click to expand...
The population of this group however is 500 million. It's not a 'cell' It's actually a fairly large nation. The Elysian empire's population is ambiguous, but 500million is not a small chunk at all. In August Yamatai hit 10billion. That means this would literally be 5% Yamatai's population. And this is supposed to have gone unnoticed and started as an extremist faction that is rather counter to the culture it started in? Where did these 500million people come from?
 
Alright, I've added in some additional text at the top level to indicate they are separate from the other Elysians.

I've also changed the wording around in the ST section to emphasize that this group's ST shananagins don't count so long as they aren't using them on Elysians. This is part of the extremely Xenophobic Elysians from before when Zakalwe was their FM, in that they are allowed to do this stuff so long as it is violating non-elysians.
 
I feel like Navian made a good point. They're evil dudes who are supposed to be evil, so they might not conform to the standards of the parent nation they've left behind. Zack did clarify anyway, though, and I remember what he's talking about regarding Zakalwe's run of the Elysians. If it's still a problem for Wes, it doesn't seem like it'd be a very hard concept to axe.
 
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