Approved Submission El-M2-1a Lightning Slug Shotgun "Zeus"

META_mahn

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FM of Elysia
Jan 2, 2017
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#1
Submission URL
Submission Link
Submission Type: Weapon
Template Used: Weapon
Submission WIP URL: https://stararmy.com/wiki/doku.php?...eapons:power_armor:lighting_slug_shotgun_zeus
Submission Destination URL: https://stararmy.com/wiki/doku.php?...eapons:power_armor:lighting_slug_shotgun_zeus

Faction: Elysian Celestial Navy
FM Approved Yet? I am the FM.
Faction requires art? No

For Reviewers:
Contains Unapproved Sub-Articles? Yes (Ammunition article here https://stararmy.com/wiki/doku.php?...:weapons:munitions:power_armor:zeus_ammuniton )
Contains New art? Acquiring art
Previously Submitted? No

Notes: A guide on how to be horrifically lazy.
 
Likes: FrostJaeger

club24

Everything Is Magical
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#2
Just because I've had to do it so many times i noticed it instantly, just ensure you have text after every header and before lists or tables ^^ also im fairly certain that red links are generally frowned upon but they appear to be ammo types, im not sure if that changes procedures but I personally would recommend having it all done for one submission

Also just a consistency issue i noticed, it mentions expelling ionised particles to facilitate an electrical charge but then doesn't seem to expand on this function anywhere else. I think being a fairly big inspiration for its name and operating type this would be fairly important to include, as well as giving an explanation as to how or if this weapon would work in a vacuum where gasses are dissipated instantly.

I myself am interested as to how this system would work which I discussed with you in DM's a while back for a system i plan to eventually make. Also, I'm not well versed in what tiers are acceptable for what weapons but having tier 7 on a handheld, which can damage mechas easier or faster than standard handheld weapons does seem a bit large?
 
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Alex Hart

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#3
It does indeed seem a bit large. Tier 7 seems far too high for a handheld weapon for anything except mecha. I'd think that something like this would fall anywhere from tier 4-5.
 

META_mahn

Setting Submissions Mod
FM of Elysia
Jan 2, 2017
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#5
This isn’t exactly a rapid fire weapon, which is why I chose a higher tier shot. It’s a shotgun, it’s intuitively meant to hit incredibly hard. I tried to reflect that idea by having it use an comparatively slow primary weapon fire rate (for the setting) so it becomes more of a “hit very few times but hit very hard every time” deal.

I’ll reduce it by a tier if I have to, but in a given simulation it may actually do worse than a modest power armor automatic rifle. It’s only because of the fact that the Tier 7 can be used to breach holes in spaceships that it’s powerful. Again, reducing it too much may take away from how the feel of a shotgun should be.
 
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club24

Everything Is Magical
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#6
that's understandable, I can see why you would have made it a high tier to reflect th power a shotgun usually is accompanied by, however 1 per second is not exactly slow, while yes compared to other weapons it may be in the scheme of a fight a shotgun is supposed to be the weapon you win with one shot and generally this is reflected with a slower fire rate if its a pump or lever action sort of thing, if it's semi auto it will obviously be faster but these have their own drawbacks one of which may be less damage.

Personally I'd suggest dropping it at least one if not two tiers as generally speaking you wouldn't be going toe to toe with a mecha even in PA, even though its sarp, cause we all know how strong mechs can be. It doesnt feel massively op but it has a feel of just a tad high than what you'd expect if that makes sense.

Again i'm interested in how this gas cloud is supposed to facilitate an electrical charge in a vacuum, and going back to damage again I'd like to clarify, the tier shot includes the affect of this electro charge as well correct? otherwise that's stacking more damage on top which would definitely be quite strong. This submission so far is giving me a Dragons Breath shotgun feel so i can understand the desire for higher tier damage. I'm more worried about in future however where some things may be misinterpreted or exaggerated if its not properly defined or regulated.

Another option i can think of instead of trying to get gas to stick together in space is having some sort of contained charge
 

META_mahn

Setting Submissions Mod
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#7
Anti-mecha weapons for PA do exist but I’m not allowed to show any of them.

Again I’m not against lowering it to a flat Tier 6 as I always intended for the plasma slug to be the most commonly used, but I’ll go back to the fire rate thing (unless Ame or Wes or someone else states that it is in fact too OP).

Yes, it is a crazy high damage. But each slug also has travel time, something really nasty in space combat. Its range is pretty small, again something not desirable. And at one shot a second, in the speeds we fight at, that’s incredibly punishing if you miss a shot.

I’d say given all the conditions, if you land a hit you should be rewarded for it.
 

Arbitrated

The Smollest Smol
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#8
I think the redlinks should be fixed on both articles. I kinda understand what you're trying to do when you made them, but it's easier in the review to fix them and then change them later
 

club24

Everything Is Magical
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#10
Alrighty, I don't really know enough about damage to continue with that side of things, i guess just ensure the thing about travel time is explicitly stated and not left to interpretation or hidden as i never saw it when i looked over before although I'm basically blind anyway so hardly surprising.

But I'm still a little concerned with the whole lightning in space concept which you haven't responded to from either of my questions yet, the only real advice i can give for the rest of the gun is just ensure all the drawbacks you listed are clearly stated and easily seen, since its not the submitter who Im concerned with misusing its oth
 
Likes: Arbitrated

META_mahn

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#11
Yeah, that’s an issue that I’m working on with the gas. My idea for the shells is that they essentially also have their own gas-based ionized propellant so when you fire the gun the propellant vaporizes from a solid or liquid into a gas. This helps make it faster but also makes it a little less accurate. It also creates a mostly straight trail of ionized gas which should allow you to run current.
 
Likes: Arbitrated

club24

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#12
The way you've explained it, it sounds like it would need to be constantly expelling a considerable amount from the shell as it goes with the charge literally right behind it to even give it a tiny chance at conducting properly but it would reach a point of being incredibly inefficient with little or no result by the time you get there, considering it is a shotgun and has shorter range perhaps some sort of high strength hyper conducive wire could be employed similar to how taser guns operate.

To go one step further you could employ the wire tactic for vacuums and use standard atmospheric physics to cause a lightning effect if it's used planet side. Otherwise the only other things i can think of have the charge included in the shell itself which would detract from its aesthetic and original idea.
 

Zack

FM of Uso's Organization
Game Master
Jan 21, 2005
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#13
Is this a handheld weapon or a power armor weapon?

tier 4 seems far more in line with other weapons of the same power level. I think there is even a discussion about Madi’s gun where everyone seems to agree 6-7 is way too high for something like this.
 

META_mahn

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#14
It's a power armor weapon. Prrrrobably should've said that outright...I'm not making a Tier 7 handheld weapon. That's how you get your arms torn off. But I should say that yes, it's a pump action power armor shotgun. Fixed those details.

@club24 That is an idea, although ideally I'd still like there to be a lightning effect in space still so using ionized gas as a secondary propellant still isn't out of the question yet, but using the wire could help make sure it performs its job every time, but the trick would be to get the wire out. Although @Speeder01 was the original guy who thought of the whole ionized gas conductor idea from an RP site ago, so I suppose he's a good guy to ask how it should work.
 

Zack

FM of Uso's Organization
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Jan 21, 2005
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#15
How big is this weapon? Tier 7 weapons are generally low level anti-ship equipment such as mini missiles or A-10 style rapid fire cannons.

Tier 7 might make sense if it’s a shoulder mounted or crew served piece of gear, but not so much if it is held by a power armor. An armor weapon (that isn’t a big-style-gun) might be more like 4-5-6 in tier.
 

META_mahn

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#16
But it is a pretty big gun. It's a 4-gauge shotgun (the biggest shotguns go), and although I screwed up my math for how big a 4-gauge shotgun should be it's still not your average power armor rifle size. And the fact it's bullpup style means it's your power armor's shoulder area that's helping mitigate the recoil which lets you output more force than say, a regular rifle that you hold in your hands.

So yeah, thanks for making me go look up how big a 4-gauge is. Numbers on the sheet adjusted to fit size specs.
 
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META_mahn

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#17
Lowered fire rate to 0.667 rounds/s (40 rounds/min) because it still seemed a bit quick for a pump.
 

Zack

FM of Uso's Organization
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Jan 21, 2005
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#18
A 4-gauge is still something a normal human can fire without issue. This weapon also appears to be able to be used unaided as it doesn’t say a power armor is required. For example, the HPAR makes it pretty clear that the weapon will dislodge a user’s arm even if they are an ID-SOL and madi’s weapon has its own internal dampener.

Similarly, other tier 6 weapons are usually soda Can sized mini missiles while this is quite a bit smaller than that.

Other tier 7 railguns are starship-scale.

Tier 5 seems more in line with the sheer bull of this thing though. The size measurements and calling it a shotgun make it sound a lot smaller than a 88lb weight actually is.
 

Zack

FM of Uso's Organization
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Jan 21, 2005
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#19
Double post: a comparable weapon, the HPAR, is tier 5, which seems more in line with this submission.
 

META_mahn

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#20
Well, I'm fixing it to be VERY CLEAR it's to be used in a power armor. So get that right in your mind, please.

I don't think I'm breaking rule 4 by counterpointing your HPAR example: The HPAR isn't a good example, because it's an assault rifle. This is a shotgun. That's like comparing apples to bananas.