Corban Saezer
Universal Hunter
Posts: 139
(2/21/03 1:26 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
Energy vs. Mass Drivers Say that I'm trying to make a maneuverable ship that is very nimble...and has thin armor. However, the fact that it has a system which disrupts Lock-On Targeting makes it somewhat safe. People have to get down and dirty with this ship to actually hit it...which is why it's fast.
Now then, what sort of weapon would be the best for this sort of ship? Energy projectiles like a Laser or Plasma Cannon, or a Mass Driver System aka Railgun?
All things are subjective.
Derran Tyler
CINC-NDI
Posts: 75
(2/21/03 4:46 pm)
Reply It all depends, really..... Since I assume the ship has a pretty strong electronic warfare suite (hence the 'disrupts' targeting feature), it'd have to be drawing a lot of power to maintain that. Secondly, what kind of power plant do you have on this thing? Directed energy weapons like lasers and particle beam weapons draw A LOT of power, and since a lot of power is being sucked up by ECM, you might want to go with the mass driver because it doesn't have such a huge energy drain as the energy weapons. Though, you could go with the energy weapon, but since you only have a certain amount of energy you can devote to engines, your electronic warfare systems, and weapons, you'll have to sacrifice power in one to get power in the other. Directed energy weapons tend to hit instantly if you're within one light-second, and mass drivers are obviously slower. Also, mass drivers have a finite amount of ammo while energy weapons can operate (generally) as long as the power plant is intact.
PuroMalvagio
Co-Executive
Posts: 83
(2/21/03 8:46 pm)
Reply Re: It all depends, really..... However, if the Railgun/Gauss/Coilgun breaks down...it is 15 bloody times easier to fix in the field. Capacitors and electromagnetics...such simple @#%$, it's amazing.
Corban Saezer
Universal Hunter
Posts: 140
(2/22/03 12:00 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
I see...Railgun it is then! The simplicity argument bought me =/
This ship is designed to be self-autonomous and modular. A skilled fighter who's camped out in the middle of nowhere can service this ship and take off...and do stuff. I can't have it rely on waypoints and ships!...
...Bwahahah. *flies in a little bugger equipped with a bigass gun...and little armor. Zips around* o_o
All things are subjective.
The Omega Theory
Member
Posts: 3
(2/28/03 12:41 am)
Reply A problem.. What kind of propulsion is this baby gonna have cause if you up against something like this...
www.gundamw.net/paper/wallpaper6a.jpg
...you will have your ass kicked because of the Gundams/Mobile Suits extreme speed and flexibility.
They can fly right up to you at an incredible speed and change direction even faster than you because of the thruster array on the back of every space based Mobile Suit/Gundam.
The armour on these things is also very thick and the newer models have Phase Shift armour which allows it to adjust to the frequency of most energy weapons.
The Gundams would also be able to turn off any fission-based power or weapons because of the Neutron Jammers they are equipped with. They also would prevent you from calling any back up because of the radio Jammers they are equipped with..so it would be a good idea to equip your ship with laser based communication systems too.
(( As I am a Gundam pilot it is my duty to inform you of these things...because in battle you might get pissed off other Gundam Pilots. ))
Derran Tyler
CINC-NDI
Posts: 84
(2/28/03 1:11 am)
Reply Psh...
Quote: What kind of propulsion is this baby gonna have cause if you up against something like this...
www.gundamw.net/paper/wallpaper6a.jpg
...you will have your ass kicked because of the Gundams/Mobile Suits extreme speed and flexibility.
They can fly right up to you at an incredible speed and change direction even faster than you because of the thruster array on the back of every space based Mobile Suit/Gundam.
How do you know you can change direction faster than he can? Have you seen the stats on his unit yet? A MS' vernier thrusters are simply a requisite system because of the inertial factors of outer space. You need those just to change direction rapidly otherwise you'll keep on careening in one direction. So if your unit has vernier boosters, then you had better bet that this unit will have verniers because they are needed just to maneuver in space combat. So what makes you think you can maneuver better again? For all you know, this unit could be possessing a power plant and propulsion system that is so far ahead of those produced in Gundam that you don't even stand a chance. In other words: don't assume @#%$, it only makes you look retarded.
The armour on these things is also very thick and the newer models have Phase Shift armour which allows it to adjust to the frequency of most energy weapons.
Yeah, but what is phase shift armor gonna do if he decides to employ a rapid-firing gauss cannon firing depleted uranium slugs at ultra-high velocities? At the kind of speeds required for space combat, a pebble the size of a penny could shred through your armor like it's cool. Multiple, high velocity depleted uranium slugs poking holes in your armor and internal equipment won't be fun at all. And for some reason, I don't see how 'adjusting' armor to the frequency of a beam weapon will help anything. When energy weapons impact armor, they instantly destroy the molecular bonds at the point of impact and weaken molecular bonds across the grain of the target. By just vibrating the armor to the desired frequency, you don't stop the transfer of energy from the beam into the target materials.
Quote: The Gundams would also be able to turn off any fission-based power or weapons because of the Neutron Jammers they are equipped with. They also would prevent you from calling any back up because of the radio Jammers they are equipped with..so it would be a good idea to equip your ship with laser based communication systems too.
And how do these neutron jammers work? More than likely, the creators of Gundam Seed probably just created neutron jammers to make it a little bit different than the previous series since fusion-powered units were so preavalent. As far as your radio jammers go, those can always be gotten around unless it's a full RF spectrum jam. In any case, it'll be of little use to you if he's using tachyon communications or some other method.
In any case, I'm only jumping on your case because you are making a lot of assumptions. You don't know what tech level he's working at so don't try to just roll up and say that units from Gundam Seed will dominate him. Just remember: Whatever advantages exist in Gundam do not necessarily apply when dealing with units from other anime/movies/games/etc.
Travis English
General Purpose Sub-Admin
Posts: 86
(2/28/03 3:13 am)
Reply
My own intervention: What a lot of people seem to forget when dealing with uber-fast, uber-manueverable mecha, is the limitations of their pilots. It's really amusing to read about someone breaking orbit velocity and burning through the atmosphere to make a graceful landing in a matter of minutes.
To maintain a stable orbit, a velocity of somewhere over Mach 15 must be held. Too fast, and you risk an escaping orbit. Too slow, and your orbit decays until you burn up in a slow and very painful manner. So, breaking orbit is actually a very delicate process.
In fact, a modern space shuttle must turn around and apply two "de-orbit burns," in which five liquid-state engines must apply their full rated power of 390,000 pounds of thrust each for approximately two minutes per burn. Only then has enough velocity been bled off to successfully allow re-entry.
During these burns, the pilots are subjected to intense G-forces, which forces the blood into their lower bodies and the back of their brains. In fact, it is not uncommon for astronauts to pass out (black out), and remember that these are grown men who've been training for space for as long as ten years.
Now, let's alter the scenario a little and apply logical physics.
We have a flotilla of ships in orbit around a planet... I dunno. Let's give the advantage to the Gundam pilot and make it one capital ship with an escort of two cruisers or destroyers.
A Gundam approaches the planet, wanting to break through the blockade and land. At about 20-30,000 kilometers, the ships, with better sensors and faster-tracking weapons, detect the Gundam and open fire. A Gundam, however, has to close to its own engagement radius, which is approximately 1,000 kilometers.
That means that under fire, it must travel at least 19,000 kilometers. But again, let's give our plucky Gundam pilot the advantage, and have the capital ships hold their fire until the Gundam can egage them.
We will assume that the Gundam is approaching at maximum velocity. Gundams are not transorbital. They have been known to enter orbit and land without burning up because of their armor, but they have -never- been documented leaving orbit. So, it is safe to assume that a Gundam can not acheive escape velocity.
Here's where a little math comes in. Escape velocity, ignoring air friction, is approximately 40,200 kilometers per hour (11.17 kilometers per second). Logic tells us that the primary reason a Gundam cannot attain or escape orbit, is because it cannot attain this velocity. But guess what? I'm feeling especially generous today, so we're going to let it do exactly that. The Gundam now, is magically capable of approaching the ships at the mind-boggling speed of 40,200 kilometers per hour.
This means it will take the Gundam somewhere between half an hour to 20 minutes to close from the ships' engagement rage, to the Gundam's engagement range. Remember that during this 20-30 minutes, the ships are holding their fire.
At 1,000 kilometers, the ships open fire, and our pilot must take evasive action. Uh-oh. Here's where the really fun physics start, and I get to drive home the point of all these useless facts I've been throwing at you folks.
The pilot applies full reverse thrusters, and somehow brings the Gundam (which boasts a mass of well over seventy tons) to a complete halt - that's 11.7 kilometers per second in our fantasy scenario to zero.
Computer, Freeze Program.
Remember the space shuttle? It takes five engines each delivering over three hundred tons, two 120-second burns (four minutes total) at full throttle, just to attain a safe velocity for reentering the Earth's atmosphere - not come to a complete stop.
Even during this, the men aboard the shuttle have great difficulty remaining conscious, despite having been specially trained for five to ten years to do just that, and generally having another five to ten years prior experience in flying combat aircraft.
The pilot of a Gundam, however, is quite different from a trained astronaut. In fact, I daresay an angst-addled teenager who hasn't even spent the same number of years ALIVE as a professional astronaut has in aircraft, flight simulators, and so on, is far from a qualified sort of person to be flying a highly classified weapon.
But I'm letting my personal opnion get in my way. Let's get back to the dissectation.
Computer, Resume.
Now, when we left our valiant soldier, he was speeding towards a capital ship at 11.7 kilometers per second. At 1,000 kilometers, the destroyers and the capital ships open up a swarm of missiles that immediately zero in on the ship. The pilot puts on the brakes to buy himself some time, and somehow manages to come to a complete stop in the matter of a few minutes.
During these few minutes, the pilot will be exposed to g-forces never before felt by a human being, let alone survived. Allow me to exemplify the effects of inertia on the human being.
* 0g : The pilot will feel no limitations to movement. In fact, the pilot is completely weightless.
* 1g: The pilot will experience no unusual limitations - you are currently experiencing 1g.
* 2-6g: The pilot will feel 2-6 times their own weight, and will have progressively more and more difficulty moving. Abrupt exposure to about 4g's or greater is enough to break bones such as the neck or back.
* 8-9g: The pilot will lose cognitive abilities and is almost certain to pass out. The internal organs may begin to shift and loosen, and loss of bladder and bowl control is not uncommon.
* 10-15g: Death is imminent as internal organs give way, blood vessels burst, and muscles are pulled away from bone. Shoulders and collarbones dislocate, and ribs begin to collapse under the weight of pectoral and abdominal muscles.
* NEGATIVE 6-10g: At -6g, the capillaries in the eyes will begin to swell, and may even burst, resulting in permanent blindness. The brain will also be crushed under the immense blood pressure.
Really now, I can throw all the numbers I want at you. But the question on everyone's mind is, "What's your point, you pusillamous pencil-pusher? You've been babbling all night!" A head-on car crash at 50 kilometers per hour (100km/h combined velocity) will very briefly expose the people in both cars to over 6g's of stopping force. This is usually (but not always) fatal to the people in both cars. Now we are examining a young adolescent in a Gundam, coming to a complete stop from 40,200 kilometers an hour - in a matter of a few minutes. I don't even want to try and calculate the numbers involved, but needless to say, I want his seat belts.Let's review the allowances I'm giving the Gundam pilot again, keeping in mind that the "reality" (ahem) is actually far different, and why.1. The Gundam was allowed a forward velocity of 40200 kilometers an hour, which is escape velocity. Because we know Gundams are not transorbital, we know that a Gundam's actual operational cruising speed is MUCH lower.2. The capital ships held their fire until the Gundam could engage them. This means the Gundam was permitted to approach the ship for almost half an hour at its exaggerated speed. In "reality," the pilot of the Gundam would have had to contend with missiles, lasers, and other nasty weapons for much longer than just half an hour, because it is much slower than the speeds we proport for this scenario.3. ECM and ECCM were omitted for the sake of simplicity. The purpose of radio jamming and ECM, however, is not to -escape- detection, but to foul it. In actuality, ECM is actually a very obvious beacon to your presence, and should only be used when stealth is NOT an option. More information on this will be presented in another essay.In conclusion, I have to say that Gundam is, in my opinion, very poorly thought out (like most animes that appear on Cartoon Network. It is a classic example of what I refer to as a work of Science Fantasy (as opposed to Science Fiction). The purpose of this essay is to demonstrate that despite all the advances in technology as of late, the power, capability, and maneuverability of any vehicle, air, or spacecraft, of anything to be used as a fighter, is still restricted by the limitations of its pilot. As Omega Theory has demonstrated, this is very easy to forget in the Arms Race phenomenon always present in Ayenee. Everyone is always so interested in having the bigger guns, the badder mech, the most destructive wareheads, the strongest, most genetically augmented soldiers ever to wave a tail, that it's very easy to completely ignore the status quo that makes our reality as fundementally believable as po[/list]
Edited by: Travis English at: 2/28/03 1:24:05 pm
Corban Saezer
Universal Hunter
Posts: 154
(2/28/03 1:21 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
"Pegasus" Super Interceptor vs...Gundam
Physics would dictate that power unit for power unit, the "Pegasus" (Hey, I don't have a name for the ship, so let's call it something fast =/ ) would have a supremely superior speed and flexibility. Able to stop on a dime, lateral drives...it's designed for maneuverability, let's put it that way <.<
Alright, so perhaps they have a thruster away...but there is an annoying thing called inertia that would probably cause the Gundam to sllooowwwlly....come to a halt...even with a plume of plasmolyzed fire spurting out of its back
Thick Armor...wouldn't that slow it down? Not to be cruel about Gundam or anything (I like Gundam. Really, I do o.o;;; ) but you're bashing a piece of technology that I envisioned >( I would not be so naive as to not take into account advanced logistical energy systems which efficiently support an array of... Joule-heavy systems such as a Gundam. What is a Phase Shift system? When I think Phase Shift, I'm thinking vibrations...harmonics. Oscillating the armor (somehow?) to somehow negate energy attacks. But...energy attacks have monstrously huge wavelengths while my IRL calculated wavelength is so freakin' small the Planck constant has a higher magnitude than it =/ And I'm fast. I'd like an FYI so I could better clarify o.o
Neutron...Jammers? Puu? Do these operate with EMP pulses or something? >.O
As a man who regularly questions and tries to use Quantum Physics Engineering theories in Tech...I feel it is necessary that I bring these points up. Maybe I'm missing something. But in my mind, this Pegasus would be able to burst away faster than a Gundam could catch it. A Gundam is like a Ferarri; this 'light assault craft' is a needlejet. Gundams would need like...uber-amounts of energy >(
...Hmm. I see that I will need some light armor that has a high tensile strength:mass ratio. Maybe Fullerene armor =D
All things are subjective.
Derran Tyler
CINC-NDI
Posts: 85
(2/28/03 4:23 pm)
Reply Re: "Pegasus" Super Interceptor vs...Gundam Yeah, but Corban, to achieve those kind of incredible speeds and be able to move on a dime, you'd have to do something to negate the 'salsa effect.' How does your pilot survive the incredible Gs produced by maneuvering at those incredible speeds? It's like you just totally ignored the piece written by Travis.
For those of you who have seen the NDI's units, you see that the majority of all NDI strike craft are not only unmanned, but also they utilize inertial nullifiers which utilize gravimetric technology to produce a field that allows a Veritech to manuever far more easily than just sticking a bunch of vernier boosters on them. In this way, a unit such as the XF-14 Tempest can literally 'stop' on a dime without tearing the mecha apart while performing ultra-fast combat maneuvers. In my opinion, that's the only way you can achieve such maneuvers without going with the 'just because' school of science.
Thick armor wouldn't necessarily slow a Gundam down, but rather, he'd just need more thruster power to accelerate. Remember, in space, there really is no maximum speed, but only the rate of acceleration. The reason for this is that there is no 'weight' in space, just mass.
"In my life time of pain and pleasure on this earth/My thirst to acquire money and power came only through hard work/My first run in with drama gave me the heart to survive/It showed me that no nigga could phase me whether he was dead or alive/Takin' pride in my rhymes - there ain't none liver than mine/I'ma get bread and break it with my father and mom"
Universal Hunter
Posts: 139
(2/21/03 1:26 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
Energy vs. Mass Drivers Say that I'm trying to make a maneuverable ship that is very nimble...and has thin armor. However, the fact that it has a system which disrupts Lock-On Targeting makes it somewhat safe. People have to get down and dirty with this ship to actually hit it...which is why it's fast.
Now then, what sort of weapon would be the best for this sort of ship? Energy projectiles like a Laser or Plasma Cannon, or a Mass Driver System aka Railgun?
All things are subjective.
Derran Tyler
CINC-NDI
Posts: 75
(2/21/03 4:46 pm)
Reply It all depends, really..... Since I assume the ship has a pretty strong electronic warfare suite (hence the 'disrupts' targeting feature), it'd have to be drawing a lot of power to maintain that. Secondly, what kind of power plant do you have on this thing? Directed energy weapons like lasers and particle beam weapons draw A LOT of power, and since a lot of power is being sucked up by ECM, you might want to go with the mass driver because it doesn't have such a huge energy drain as the energy weapons. Though, you could go with the energy weapon, but since you only have a certain amount of energy you can devote to engines, your electronic warfare systems, and weapons, you'll have to sacrifice power in one to get power in the other. Directed energy weapons tend to hit instantly if you're within one light-second, and mass drivers are obviously slower. Also, mass drivers have a finite amount of ammo while energy weapons can operate (generally) as long as the power plant is intact.
PuroMalvagio
Co-Executive
Posts: 83
(2/21/03 8:46 pm)
Reply Re: It all depends, really..... However, if the Railgun/Gauss/Coilgun breaks down...it is 15 bloody times easier to fix in the field. Capacitors and electromagnetics...such simple @#%$, it's amazing.
Corban Saezer
Universal Hunter
Posts: 140
(2/22/03 12:00 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
I see...Railgun it is then! The simplicity argument bought me =/
This ship is designed to be self-autonomous and modular. A skilled fighter who's camped out in the middle of nowhere can service this ship and take off...and do stuff. I can't have it rely on waypoints and ships!...
...Bwahahah. *flies in a little bugger equipped with a bigass gun...and little armor. Zips around* o_o
All things are subjective.
The Omega Theory
Member
Posts: 3
(2/28/03 12:41 am)
Reply A problem.. What kind of propulsion is this baby gonna have cause if you up against something like this...
www.gundamw.net/paper/wallpaper6a.jpg
...you will have your ass kicked because of the Gundams/Mobile Suits extreme speed and flexibility.
They can fly right up to you at an incredible speed and change direction even faster than you because of the thruster array on the back of every space based Mobile Suit/Gundam.
The armour on these things is also very thick and the newer models have Phase Shift armour which allows it to adjust to the frequency of most energy weapons.
The Gundams would also be able to turn off any fission-based power or weapons because of the Neutron Jammers they are equipped with. They also would prevent you from calling any back up because of the radio Jammers they are equipped with..so it would be a good idea to equip your ship with laser based communication systems too.
(( As I am a Gundam pilot it is my duty to inform you of these things...because in battle you might get pissed off other Gundam Pilots. ))
Derran Tyler
CINC-NDI
Posts: 84
(2/28/03 1:11 am)
Reply Psh...
Quote: What kind of propulsion is this baby gonna have cause if you up against something like this...
www.gundamw.net/paper/wallpaper6a.jpg
...you will have your ass kicked because of the Gundams/Mobile Suits extreme speed and flexibility.
They can fly right up to you at an incredible speed and change direction even faster than you because of the thruster array on the back of every space based Mobile Suit/Gundam.
How do you know you can change direction faster than he can? Have you seen the stats on his unit yet? A MS' vernier thrusters are simply a requisite system because of the inertial factors of outer space. You need those just to change direction rapidly otherwise you'll keep on careening in one direction. So if your unit has vernier boosters, then you had better bet that this unit will have verniers because they are needed just to maneuver in space combat. So what makes you think you can maneuver better again? For all you know, this unit could be possessing a power plant and propulsion system that is so far ahead of those produced in Gundam that you don't even stand a chance. In other words: don't assume @#%$, it only makes you look retarded.
The armour on these things is also very thick and the newer models have Phase Shift armour which allows it to adjust to the frequency of most energy weapons.
Yeah, but what is phase shift armor gonna do if he decides to employ a rapid-firing gauss cannon firing depleted uranium slugs at ultra-high velocities? At the kind of speeds required for space combat, a pebble the size of a penny could shred through your armor like it's cool. Multiple, high velocity depleted uranium slugs poking holes in your armor and internal equipment won't be fun at all. And for some reason, I don't see how 'adjusting' armor to the frequency of a beam weapon will help anything. When energy weapons impact armor, they instantly destroy the molecular bonds at the point of impact and weaken molecular bonds across the grain of the target. By just vibrating the armor to the desired frequency, you don't stop the transfer of energy from the beam into the target materials.
Quote: The Gundams would also be able to turn off any fission-based power or weapons because of the Neutron Jammers they are equipped with. They also would prevent you from calling any back up because of the radio Jammers they are equipped with..so it would be a good idea to equip your ship with laser based communication systems too.
And how do these neutron jammers work? More than likely, the creators of Gundam Seed probably just created neutron jammers to make it a little bit different than the previous series since fusion-powered units were so preavalent. As far as your radio jammers go, those can always be gotten around unless it's a full RF spectrum jam. In any case, it'll be of little use to you if he's using tachyon communications or some other method.
In any case, I'm only jumping on your case because you are making a lot of assumptions. You don't know what tech level he's working at so don't try to just roll up and say that units from Gundam Seed will dominate him. Just remember: Whatever advantages exist in Gundam do not necessarily apply when dealing with units from other anime/movies/games/etc.
Travis English
General Purpose Sub-Admin
Posts: 86
(2/28/03 3:13 am)
Reply
My own intervention: What a lot of people seem to forget when dealing with uber-fast, uber-manueverable mecha, is the limitations of their pilots. It's really amusing to read about someone breaking orbit velocity and burning through the atmosphere to make a graceful landing in a matter of minutes.
To maintain a stable orbit, a velocity of somewhere over Mach 15 must be held. Too fast, and you risk an escaping orbit. Too slow, and your orbit decays until you burn up in a slow and very painful manner. So, breaking orbit is actually a very delicate process.
In fact, a modern space shuttle must turn around and apply two "de-orbit burns," in which five liquid-state engines must apply their full rated power of 390,000 pounds of thrust each for approximately two minutes per burn. Only then has enough velocity been bled off to successfully allow re-entry.
During these burns, the pilots are subjected to intense G-forces, which forces the blood into their lower bodies and the back of their brains. In fact, it is not uncommon for astronauts to pass out (black out), and remember that these are grown men who've been training for space for as long as ten years.
Now, let's alter the scenario a little and apply logical physics.
We have a flotilla of ships in orbit around a planet... I dunno. Let's give the advantage to the Gundam pilot and make it one capital ship with an escort of two cruisers or destroyers.
A Gundam approaches the planet, wanting to break through the blockade and land. At about 20-30,000 kilometers, the ships, with better sensors and faster-tracking weapons, detect the Gundam and open fire. A Gundam, however, has to close to its own engagement radius, which is approximately 1,000 kilometers.
That means that under fire, it must travel at least 19,000 kilometers. But again, let's give our plucky Gundam pilot the advantage, and have the capital ships hold their fire until the Gundam can egage them.
We will assume that the Gundam is approaching at maximum velocity. Gundams are not transorbital. They have been known to enter orbit and land without burning up because of their armor, but they have -never- been documented leaving orbit. So, it is safe to assume that a Gundam can not acheive escape velocity.
Here's where a little math comes in. Escape velocity, ignoring air friction, is approximately 40,200 kilometers per hour (11.17 kilometers per second). Logic tells us that the primary reason a Gundam cannot attain or escape orbit, is because it cannot attain this velocity. But guess what? I'm feeling especially generous today, so we're going to let it do exactly that. The Gundam now, is magically capable of approaching the ships at the mind-boggling speed of 40,200 kilometers per hour.
This means it will take the Gundam somewhere between half an hour to 20 minutes to close from the ships' engagement rage, to the Gundam's engagement range. Remember that during this 20-30 minutes, the ships are holding their fire.
At 1,000 kilometers, the ships open fire, and our pilot must take evasive action. Uh-oh. Here's where the really fun physics start, and I get to drive home the point of all these useless facts I've been throwing at you folks.
The pilot applies full reverse thrusters, and somehow brings the Gundam (which boasts a mass of well over seventy tons) to a complete halt - that's 11.7 kilometers per second in our fantasy scenario to zero.
Computer, Freeze Program.
Remember the space shuttle? It takes five engines each delivering over three hundred tons, two 120-second burns (four minutes total) at full throttle, just to attain a safe velocity for reentering the Earth's atmosphere - not come to a complete stop.
Even during this, the men aboard the shuttle have great difficulty remaining conscious, despite having been specially trained for five to ten years to do just that, and generally having another five to ten years prior experience in flying combat aircraft.
The pilot of a Gundam, however, is quite different from a trained astronaut. In fact, I daresay an angst-addled teenager who hasn't even spent the same number of years ALIVE as a professional astronaut has in aircraft, flight simulators, and so on, is far from a qualified sort of person to be flying a highly classified weapon.
But I'm letting my personal opnion get in my way. Let's get back to the dissectation.
Computer, Resume.
Now, when we left our valiant soldier, he was speeding towards a capital ship at 11.7 kilometers per second. At 1,000 kilometers, the destroyers and the capital ships open up a swarm of missiles that immediately zero in on the ship. The pilot puts on the brakes to buy himself some time, and somehow manages to come to a complete stop in the matter of a few minutes.
During these few minutes, the pilot will be exposed to g-forces never before felt by a human being, let alone survived. Allow me to exemplify the effects of inertia on the human being.
* 0g : The pilot will feel no limitations to movement. In fact, the pilot is completely weightless.
* 1g: The pilot will experience no unusual limitations - you are currently experiencing 1g.
* 2-6g: The pilot will feel 2-6 times their own weight, and will have progressively more and more difficulty moving. Abrupt exposure to about 4g's or greater is enough to break bones such as the neck or back.
* 8-9g: The pilot will lose cognitive abilities and is almost certain to pass out. The internal organs may begin to shift and loosen, and loss of bladder and bowl control is not uncommon.
* 10-15g: Death is imminent as internal organs give way, blood vessels burst, and muscles are pulled away from bone. Shoulders and collarbones dislocate, and ribs begin to collapse under the weight of pectoral and abdominal muscles.
* NEGATIVE 6-10g: At -6g, the capillaries in the eyes will begin to swell, and may even burst, resulting in permanent blindness. The brain will also be crushed under the immense blood pressure.
Really now, I can throw all the numbers I want at you. But the question on everyone's mind is, "What's your point, you pusillamous pencil-pusher? You've been babbling all night!" A head-on car crash at 50 kilometers per hour (100km/h combined velocity) will very briefly expose the people in both cars to over 6g's of stopping force. This is usually (but not always) fatal to the people in both cars. Now we are examining a young adolescent in a Gundam, coming to a complete stop from 40,200 kilometers an hour - in a matter of a few minutes. I don't even want to try and calculate the numbers involved, but needless to say, I want his seat belts.Let's review the allowances I'm giving the Gundam pilot again, keeping in mind that the "reality" (ahem) is actually far different, and why.1. The Gundam was allowed a forward velocity of 40200 kilometers an hour, which is escape velocity. Because we know Gundams are not transorbital, we know that a Gundam's actual operational cruising speed is MUCH lower.2. The capital ships held their fire until the Gundam could engage them. This means the Gundam was permitted to approach the ship for almost half an hour at its exaggerated speed. In "reality," the pilot of the Gundam would have had to contend with missiles, lasers, and other nasty weapons for much longer than just half an hour, because it is much slower than the speeds we proport for this scenario.3. ECM and ECCM were omitted for the sake of simplicity. The purpose of radio jamming and ECM, however, is not to -escape- detection, but to foul it. In actuality, ECM is actually a very obvious beacon to your presence, and should only be used when stealth is NOT an option. More information on this will be presented in another essay.In conclusion, I have to say that Gundam is, in my opinion, very poorly thought out (like most animes that appear on Cartoon Network. It is a classic example of what I refer to as a work of Science Fantasy (as opposed to Science Fiction). The purpose of this essay is to demonstrate that despite all the advances in technology as of late, the power, capability, and maneuverability of any vehicle, air, or spacecraft, of anything to be used as a fighter, is still restricted by the limitations of its pilot. As Omega Theory has demonstrated, this is very easy to forget in the Arms Race phenomenon always present in Ayenee. Everyone is always so interested in having the bigger guns, the badder mech, the most destructive wareheads, the strongest, most genetically augmented soldiers ever to wave a tail, that it's very easy to completely ignore the status quo that makes our reality as fundementally believable as po[/list]
Edited by: Travis English at: 2/28/03 1:24:05 pm
Corban Saezer
Universal Hunter
Posts: 154
(2/28/03 1:21 pm)
Reply
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"Pegasus" Super Interceptor vs...Gundam
Physics would dictate that power unit for power unit, the "Pegasus" (Hey, I don't have a name for the ship, so let's call it something fast =/ ) would have a supremely superior speed and flexibility. Able to stop on a dime, lateral drives...it's designed for maneuverability, let's put it that way <.<Alright, so perhaps they have a thruster away...but there is an annoying thing called inertia that would probably cause the Gundam to sllooowwwlly....come to a halt...even with a plume of plasmolyzed fire spurting out of its back
Thick Armor...wouldn't that slow it down? Not to be cruel about Gundam or anything (I like Gundam. Really, I do o.o;;; ) but you're bashing a piece of technology that I envisioned >( I would not be so naive as to not take into account advanced logistical energy systems which efficiently support an array of... Joule-heavy systems such as a Gundam. What is a Phase Shift system? When I think Phase Shift, I'm thinking vibrations...harmonics. Oscillating the armor (somehow?) to somehow negate energy attacks. But...energy attacks have monstrously huge wavelengths while my IRL calculated wavelength is so freakin' small the Planck constant has a higher magnitude than it =/ And I'm fast. I'd like an FYI so I could better clarify o.o
Neutron...Jammers? Puu? Do these operate with EMP pulses or something? >.O
As a man who regularly questions and tries to use Quantum Physics Engineering theories in Tech...I feel it is necessary that I bring these points up. Maybe I'm missing something. But in my mind, this Pegasus would be able to burst away faster than a Gundam could catch it. A Gundam is like a Ferarri; this 'light assault craft' is a needlejet. Gundams would need like...uber-amounts of energy >(
...Hmm. I see that I will need some light armor that has a high tensile strength:mass ratio. Maybe Fullerene armor =D
All things are subjective.
Derran Tyler
CINC-NDI
Posts: 85
(2/28/03 4:23 pm)
Reply Re: "Pegasus" Super Interceptor vs...Gundam
Yeah, but Corban, to achieve those kind of incredible speeds and be able to move on a dime, you'd have to do something to negate the 'salsa effect.' How does your pilot survive the incredible Gs produced by maneuvering at those incredible speeds? It's like you just totally ignored the piece written by Travis.For those of you who have seen the NDI's units, you see that the majority of all NDI strike craft are not only unmanned, but also they utilize inertial nullifiers which utilize gravimetric technology to produce a field that allows a Veritech to manuever far more easily than just sticking a bunch of vernier boosters on them. In this way, a unit such as the XF-14 Tempest can literally 'stop' on a dime without tearing the mecha apart while performing ultra-fast combat maneuvers. In my opinion, that's the only way you can achieve such maneuvers without going with the 'just because' school of science.
Thick armor wouldn't necessarily slow a Gundam down, but rather, he'd just need more thruster power to accelerate. Remember, in space, there really is no maximum speed, but only the rate of acceleration. The reason for this is that there is no 'weight' in space, just mass.
"In my life time of pain and pleasure on this earth/My thirst to acquire money and power came only through hard work/My first run in with drama gave me the heart to survive/It showed me that no nigga could phase me whether he was dead or alive/Takin' pride in my rhymes - there ain't none liver than mine/I'ma get bread and break it with my father and mom"
