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[NAM] Negative Energy Recoil Drive

Should this be approved?

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Zack

Inactive Member
Negative Energy Recoil Drive:



  • The Negative Energy Recoil Drive evolved from the Tachyon Recoil Drive. Originally the inertia intensive particles were used for propulsion only but the design was adapted several times. Sensor systems, weapons, computer, and FTL devices all requiring tachyons in various ways were added into the design. The Recoil drive provides the tachyons, the associated negative energy fields, and the control systems for energy flow needed to run these systems.

    (Tachyons: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachyon )

    Propulsion:



    • STL propulsion is facilitated by the Negative Energy Recoil Drive’s tachyon production systems which produce large amounts of negative energy. The tachyons are channeled out the front of the craft at faster than light speeds. The natural properties of the tachyon give them vast amounts of inertia and because of their negative mass they pull the craft in the direction the tachyons are moving. The large amounts of inertia give the drive fast acceleration and low tachyon emissions making it naturally hard to detect.

      In addition to conventional STL propulsion the manipulation of negative energy allows the ship to hide itself in its own bubble of space time. The engines then expand the space behind the bubbles while at the same time shrinking the space in front of the bubbles to move the ship at many times the speed of light. Because of the unique mounting system for the engines they can be almost instantly pointed in a new direction, allowing the ship to not need to be pointed forward in order to move ‘forward’.

      (Source: Stop putting in links that stretch the page, Zack. )


    Weaponry:



    • The FTL system is capable of extending itself to generate shearing effects at a distance. By artificially accelerating mass the instant it enters the bubble damaging effects can be generated by the intense heat, shearing, and force created by the FTL bubble boundary pulling on the mass that is inside the bubble and not affecting the mass outside of the bubble.

      With a single negative energy recoil drive a sphere shaped shearing field is generated. The Numina has two drive systems allowing it to generate elliptical shapes, with each engine acting as a focus of the elipse. Size and shape of the bubble is extremely important because the larger the bubble the more energy is required to expand it. An elliptical bubble will effect less of an area but will expand further, faster, because of its shape. The bubble’s maximum expansion speed is about equal to the FTL speed of the engines minus the space inside of the bubble.

      • Location: The drive system.
        Primary Purpose: Anti-armor
        Secondary Purpose: anti-material
        Damage: 7
        Area of Effect: up to 500km, decreasing with range.
        Range: 1au
        Rate of Fire: Continuous
        Payload: Power Dependent.


    Shielding:



    • Defensive measures are provided by the shearing effect of the FTL bubble, which serves to shear mass heading toward the ship or refract energy waves away from the ship. The drawback of this system is that energy beams entering the bubble are accelerated because the space inside the bubble is moving at a faster rate relative to the outside space. This increases the wavelengths of the energy making it more penetrating. It is not recommended to be inside of the bubble without some form of protection. This effect also provides some protection against matter copying through entanglement based teleportation by refracting the carrier medium of entanglement. The defensive capabilities also provide the ship with supercavitation capabilities within the atmosphere, greatly increasing the maximum possible speed and massively reducing friction while moving, as well as protection against scalar weapons by insulating against outside gravity.

      Multiple FTL bubbles nested inside of each other are also effective at dampening the effects of anti-FTL devices by providing increasing degrees of separation from their effects and by creating areas of space in which the FTL systems can operate however in any intradiction field conflict the negative energy recoil drive’s power output must remain above the output of the intradiction field to prevent the negative energy FTL fields from being disperesed by the gravity.

      (Refraction on the Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refraction Because the FTL field would be moving at a different rate compared with space outside it would act like an object with a different refractive index.)


    Sensors:


    • Three types of Tachyon fed sensors systems are integrated into the hardware and software of the negative energy recoil drive. Tachyon detectors embedded into the engine to monitor engine performance double as tachyon sonar systems, detecting tachyon bursts coming from outside of the ship and triangulating their location to build a picture of external negative energy content.

      Negative energy flow is sensitive to gravity fields. Observation of the exact shape of the ship’s own negative energy flow acts to pinpoint gravitational distortions. The result is a fairly complex but very accurate accelerometer.

      Specialized sensor systems are also integrated into the power distribution systems of the engines. These sensors monitor power flow and compare it to models of what power flow should be according to bubble size and nearby gravitational fields. Because power output dramatically increases as mass enters the FTL bubble the data can be used to detect objects passing into the FTL bubble as well as the location of where they entered through calculating when each engine starts drawing more power. This can double as a sensor system by expanding a low power FTL bubble to cover a distance of near 2 AU near planets or several light years in deep space. Because of the lower intensity of the bubble it is harmless to objects and the energy saved (when compared to weaponised FTL) can be used to extend the bubble’s range.

    Computing:


    • In addition to the conventional computing systems installed in the engine to control functions a second processing system is built into the sensor systems of the engine. By precisely controlling the flow of tachyons with tachyon filtering equipment data can be sent back in time several moments. This creates a Time Loop Logic computer system out of the drive’s emissions. By combining this system with the ship’s sensor data a real time image of the exterior can be generated, negating the lag time of returning sensor actions. Specifically the computer attempts to predict where an object is and the sensors attempt to confirm this. The correct prediction is then sent backwards in time to the ship.

      The process involves manipulating tachyons with considerable inertia. Each manipulation generates considerable heat. Heat output and computer size limits the precognitive abilities of the system, giving it at maximum output only a few seconds of lead time with increasing inaccuracy as time before the event occurs increases.

      (Time Loop Logic on the Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_loop_logic )


    Artificial Gravity:


    • Negative energy from the drive system is channeled over the ‘top’ of the craft and then downward, permeating the ship. The resulting flow pushes everything inside the ship downward to create artificial gravity.

      (Negative Mass on the Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exotic_mat ... ative_mass )



    Communications:


    • Communication hardware integrated into the drive system helps control the flow of negative energy to generate various types of subspace fields. These fields act as a carrier for an inset subspace radio. A second, directional, filter is used to guide and control a stream of tachyons. This filter imparts information onto the tachyons so that a receiver can pick up the message at a distance. This communicator works much like a laser communication device. A receiver is built into engine as well to pick up messages sent in the same way.
 
I give it 10 minutes before everyone copies this and innovation ends.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a technological singulary and by jove, I believe the SARP isn't ready for it if a craft can work with a few of these drives and no traditional engines or systems alongside them.

Assuming it is, read and be offended by the petty level of whining depicted below in my inept babblespeak.

For those cats and kittens who don't get old Uso's double-speak, I suggest you read the following and gasp in horror:


I'd seriously question the motives of a guy who thought the underlying physics and realism of a technology was more important than whethet it was 'fair'.

And shit dude. StarArmy isn't one big techno-wank-fest dispite én contrare that our good friend Senór Carthage would believe.

No offence, skip. I love what you do but baby-steps before marathons, kay?


LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, LET THE ONSLAUGHT BEGIN!


  • 1) I'd like you to define the negative energy specifically. Are we talking negative rest energy, below a level defined as zero or a ground/base state.
    Surely, mean an absence of zero point energy, right?

    2) More importantly, is your drive utilizing geometric boundaries (curving space-time or with matter) or are you compressing light to achieve your desired effect?

    3) I believe the applications of this system are phenomenal, as the recoil drive suggests but I also believe that the very technology itself is too far, too soon for Nepelsian technology and in my opinion is as close to a technological singularity as you're going to get which frankly, SA has almost already achieved anyway.

    4) On a similar note, how do you utilize to defeat quantum inequalities which would terminate these particles or even stopping the particles simply leaving and dispersing?

    My eyes sifted so far down and then I set them upon the following:
    This effect also provides some protection against matter copying through entanglement based teleportation by refracting the carrier medium of entanglement.

    5) Who is copying matter through entanglement?
    Forgive me but I don't read every god damn roleplay I'm not involved in so knowledge like this has to be spoon-fed to me as it would any of us not in the know.
 
negative mass particles are generated moving faster than the speed of light
?
 
1) We are dealing with Tachyons, the screwy little particle that is mathematically possible but so far beyond technology's ability to prove/disprove. Tachyon sensors have already been used in this setting if I am not mistaken so the Tachyon and the means to create/interact with them must also already exist.

2) For the space bending effects we are talking about generating a bunch of slow tachyons very near the speed of light. The large amount of negative mass would produce a large amount of negative energy much along the lines of what is theorized to be causing the universe to expand faster and faster.

3) Yes, they are phenomenal, which is one of the reasons why I wrote it. As far as technology being to far we are talking about something which actually doesn’t use anything new. None of the tech required to build this device would be stuff that shouldn’t already exist. To be more specific all of the technology needed to create and interact with tachyons would already be stuff that is in use on starships with tachyon based sensors. No one has quite put it together in this way before but we are talking about using off the shelf equipment to build a complex and dangerous military device which is right up Nepleslia’s technological alley.

4) All of those problems would already have been solved in order to build tachyon sensors. I went and checked just now and there are tachyon sensors and communicators so I am not crazy. As far as getting around the light speed barrier I imagined tachyons would be created already moving slightly faster than the speed of light. That would bypass the barrier and the mathematical impossibilities it presents.

5) Specifically the RDD uses instant entanglement to make observations. The applications of its unique method of entanglement have not yet been fully utilized in RP to my knowledge. I wanted to include at least some reference to protection regardless of if it would work against the device somewhere to have some basis to argue against someone performing an insta-kill against a ship I’ve designed should someone attempt to do so.

6) In response to Wes and the response to wes’s response I would like to point out that is part of a sentence and according to word it is grammatically correct. The line in question is a reference to how I intended to solve the problem of the light speed barrier when dealing with tachyons.

7) And if no one has noticed it yet the original name was Tachyon Recoil Drive but I changed it and reworded the entry before submission because Negative Energy Recoil Drive is a better acronym and still technically correct.
 
Okay, my silence in matters of technical prowess is well-known, as I am not a technical person. I keep to myself, and I like it that way. But this technology is far more than that. It's a manifesto, a statement to Uso's desire to completely shift the balance of power in the SARP.

The thing about you, Uso, is that you hate Star Army. You hate the players (having said that most of them are worthless), you hate the setting, you hate the technology, you hate the species, all of it. But you won't leave. Inertia is keeping you here, plus the thought that you can 'fix' things. Hell, you even said that the only players you thought were worth anything were you, Derran, Tom, and Thad!

Hey, yeah! I bet a lot of people are happy about you dismissing everyone on the site except for yourself, your two buddies, and Tom! I bet they're also happy about you saying that about people who they've probably never seen IC posts of! And I bet they're also happy about your support of Rezeal's completely broken technology, not to mention your own! And I'm willing to bet that the thing they're happiest about, is your attempts to fix a setting that no one has any fun in whatsoever!

...damn, I broke my sarcasm detector.

Sorry to break your illusion, Uso, but the SARP ain't broken. Things in it are broken; there are imbalances in technology, illogic in the setting, and other such things. But as a whole, it's a good setting, far better than what most of the internet manages to put out. It takes itself seriously, but not to the point of ridicule, it's got a good social dynamic, creative weaponry, and some of the best damned people I've ever met.

What you want is something completely serious, completely balanced, dark and gritty. The kind of thing that ruined comic books in the 90s. From what I hear, that's a lot of what the NDI offers, and it's an approach that people like. But it's not our approach.

The SARP is not built on serious business and impossible odds, no matter what you seem to want from it. It's built on more thrust more speed, turning on a dime, listening to his song and all such things. It's a variety, a war that shows soldiers who have an impossible amount of luck on their side, who laugh and play and sleep together just as soon as they fight together. It's not grim, it's not dirty, and it's certainly not balanced. But it's good, it's fun, and I think that's what we need to work towards.

Hate me if you want. You already do; and from what's happened in RP, you're clearly not able to seperate your character's feelings from your own. Hate all of us. Hate the setting, I don't really care. But don't try and do this to us. Don't think that this is your own personal playground, and don't try and ignore what the majority wants.

And please, please. please...stop being such an ass.
 
If you need to vent steam please do it in the discussion forms and not the tech forums.

While you are venting steam also feel free not to put words in my mouth.
 
I love you FM, but the contributions forum isn't quite the place for this sort of thing (drama). Just so you know.

@Zack: The point is that you're, in one sentence, creating something that's incompatible with the laws of physics (FTL), as if it's nothing.

And, also, if you really are full of hate, you need to 1) Get over it and have fun or 2) leave.

Edit:
Uso Tasuki said:
If you need to vent steam please do it in the discussion forms and not the tech forums.

While you are venting steam also feel free not to put words in my mouth.
This post is a great example of what angers FM and the rest of us - it's short, dismissive of our concerns, and totally unsympathetic. It also doesn't clarify what your thoughts/words really are.
 
No words have been put in your mouth; I have the entire log, if you'd like to see it.

As for 'venting steam', I'm not venting anything. The discussion is relevant to your intent with this technology, and thus relevant to the question of its approval. I get the feeling that you were 'tl;dr'.
 
I agree as far as not permitting this tech to be approved for reasons that have already been stated...though I wish to see these logs before I say anything further, and such further comments are not for this area.
 
I don’t think it is incompatible with the laws of physics. Mathematically nothing actually violates the laws of physics here. Because tachyons have negative mass they exist on the other side of the light barrier. Instead of having a positive mass which would require more energy to approach the speed of light it has a negative mass which requires more energy to approach the speed of light as well except from the other direction. Starting at 2c it would require greater and greater sums of energy to slow down to near 1c and infinite energy to move at the speed of light.

Tachyons also get the unique weirdness of negative inertia and quasi-time travel. If you pushed against one you would move in the direction you are pushing. Also because they are moving faster than the speed of light they could be observed backward in time. Technically if you were to make a computer system based on this you would only be able to send information back in time only as long as it would take the tachyon to travel between the sending and receiving parts of the machine with each interaction taking up exponentially more energy each time. The end result is something like WARMS and Paradox, a precognitive sensor with limited functionality that can exist within the game without unbalancing it because the practical effect would be a real time sensor image (no lag from STL sensor systems because of how the information is transferred) and a small computer with awesome number crunching abilities. The latter of which is already widely used.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachyon
 
Uso. Understand we players work a little differently.

Physics have less to do with whether we approve something as say whether it's compatible with the SETTING.

While I thank you for introducing me to a new area of physics and ask you to drop some other interesting stuff, I'd prefer it if you think about the impact of your contribution equally (if not moreso) than whether it works or not.

When you jump on the band-waggon that the same drive can act as a computing, communications, shielding, ftl and engine system, we get a little unnerved because it means you can have a fighter that weighs no more than a 40 inch flatscreen TV.

If they were independant systems making use of the same technology which wasn't blatantly "do everything with several devices that work in one big phat field".

It'd be better if you introduced the area of physics to us and went through some uses and devices to make the best of it so you can't say take your wrecked communications mast and use it to FTL your ass out.

I personally draw the conlusion that you're trying to come up with a system that means you drop it's name and you're half way through a submission with one system..

This would be much cooler if it were a secondary system which while not AS capable as existing stuff which specializes in any given task, it's not shabby at all.

When players pour time into developing FTL systems and shielding systems and suddenly someone throws out a jack of all trades device which is posted by a guy who would only post it IF it beat the pants of everything existing, said players worry.
 
Tachyons fall under Quantom String theory. That and the majority of it's power comes from the Daric Sea (Aka Zero point energy).

That, and Uso is notorious for making Swiss armyknife tech submissions.
 
I am going to have to say I don't understand where you are coming from with that OsakanOne.

Synergizing devices is an important part of this RP. It makes the design elements of something much easier to work out and it conveys a level of technological advancement without aggravating the mega death weapon problem.

As for size issues there are already pieces of equipment that are smaller in size which completely combined do all of the same things. They are largely in use on smaller power armors and fighters anyways. As far as the issue of making something the size of a fighter more powerful than a battle ship I do believe I wrote into all of my submissions some way of differentiating the power outputs of the device. The power armors versions had many features removed specifically for that reason.
 
Swiss Armyknife tech submissions mean you don't need to think like a designer. You drop in systems like compting libraries and you have another identical to device to the last 300 you made.

Only this one has a slightly bigger gun or it's faster or something.

Nothing unique.

Little things like these? People like to implement them ontop of existing armors. The days of the hoplite seemed like a golden-age in my eyes. It even survived as far as to get modified to death into a variable fighter.

Now that is a respected submission.
 
Nothing unique?

I don't think anyone has used tachyons as a drive system in this setting before.

I don't think anyone has used metameterials before.

I don't think anyone has even tried getting the most they could out of this area of physics before. At least to my knowledge.

In base it is a rocket engine that points in the other direction! That should be reason enough to have something like this.

I will refrain from commenting on other tech submissions because that is not what this thread is about but I will ask you to stay on topic.


Edit: I also belive sheering weapons are something unique too.
 
You're not following.

Once this is out, you'll tack this technology to every submission you make and save yourself time and like the Mindy/Kylie, it'll stagnate and you'll end up with units that are a bitch to modify when they've grown old and obsolete which they inevitably will as all things do.

The Mindy and the Kylie from a player standpoint are very very boring machines.
They do what they say on the tin and nothing more, which is ideal for new players and folks who really don't care about tech or those who just really like fleshy inserts.

After your big whopping innovation, this will end up on everything from starships to armored suits.



I believe the submission is epic but you need to tone it down into seperate systems and explain it's not "5 drives acting as one system do everything at once" which erks us so much.
 
Well hopefully that will get a larger variety of stuff out there to use.

Having a bunch of different systems that all require their own source of tachyons to do the same thing one system could is incredibly inefficent.

Perhaps I should include language along the likes of the CFS? Limiting the output to systems based on what is in use?
 
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