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Abandoned Submission [NDC] Operators

Whisper

Whisper

Retired Staff
Submission URL
https://stararmy.com/wiki/doku.php?id=species:operator
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NDC Culture on Star Army Space Roleplay

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Caerbannog on Star Army Space Roleplay

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Submission Faction(s)
  1. NDC
Submission Terms
  1. I agree
Hello!

New clone species for the NDC! They're extra good at using man-machine interfaces to operate mechs, etc, and are a part of the NDC's plan to establish a stronger identity for itself.

Some notes!

This article and the ones with it are fairly hefty. The only articles actually crucial to this one are the Operator and Operator Creation Process. Culture and the Caerbannog are both mentioned, so I've included them, but I don't consider them dependencies. If whoever takes this on has issue with those I can remove the links and pad out the article a bit, then fix those later on. Your call, friend reviewer. :D

I don't have art at this time. Once I get the okay on the appearance details here, etc, then I intend to commission a couple pieces. I'm thinking a few simple head shots and a body or two. Will depend on who I can get, interest, etc. :) I know this is an ask for new species and intend to uphold it.

Thanks!
 
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In a new and unprecedented move, the NTSE team are going to have two reviewers on this submission. @Syaoran has been going over this with me and will continue to help me out but I'll be making the review's 'official' posts in the thread.

Currently we think it would be best for you to re-review the species creation guide (https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=guide:creating_a_species) to check out the "cliches to avoid" section where it says:

"That means you shouldn't call yourselves a separate Species if you're really just humans with special powers, minor cosmetic changes (ears, etc), or an extra organ or two. This alone may be grounds for the denial of a submission because the setting already has more than enough pseudohuman species."
 
Hey Ame!

All good on having two people assist. There's a lot to mill through here and I appreciate the extra attention. :)

As far as the pseudohuman bit goes - I can see how the submission clashes with that line. It's something I thought could happen, so I had taken a handful of steps to avoid it being an issue by speaking with other FMs, sharing the articles weeks in advance of submission via DM/Discord/forum, and making it clear in the Faction planning thread that this was our intention.

One of the goals behind making the Operators was to diversify the NDC somewhat by giving the NDC its own flavor of Human, like Nep and Yam have. From an IC angle I don't understand why a faction wouldn't want to improve the capabilities of the clones they're producing, given the option to do so. There's a ton of precedent for it happening already and the NDC's original founders are the product of such efforts. Much of the visual changes are there to add flavor requested by the NDC's current players and to give them a clear look that distinguishes them from the other Humans in the setting.

If it's simply a 'if they look like humans it's a no' issue then I'm not entirely sure how to proceed. Instead of calling them a new species, I could simply say they're a type of modified Human with the following traits and move them out of the species namespace? There are a lot of those already, so that seems like a possibility?

Open to suggestions on how to handle it.

Thanks!
 
Whisper said:
If it's simply a 'if they look like humans it's a no' issue then I'm not entirely sure how to proceed. Instead of calling them a new species, I could simply say they're a type of modified Human with the following traits and move them out of the species namespace? There are a lot of those already, so that seems like a possibility?
Click to expand...
Yes! It is an issue with them being basically upscaled humans. It's a good idea to make this a modified human and not a species.

What is important to retain is in your OP - that you want this to foster is a faction identity for the NDC. Gene modification programs historically can be successful in doing this, but so can a species different from what we have. I think now it might be about picking a direction and investing some more lore into them via wikification. If you go down the species route, then poke the wiki for ideas! They're littered everywhere (Wes' to-do list on the wiki, for instance!) and even Wes might be able to talk ideas. A new species does need to be something more than just a human plus some new attributes, though.
 
I'm fine with switching from 'species' to 'modified human'. :)

What's the right format/template for 'modified human', if not species? There's some variance with the template of other not-quite-human pages (Nepleslian, ID-SOL, Minkan, for example), though those are all classified as distinct species. Maybe something like species:human:eek:perator? Other than the change to namespace, I think the rest should still stand as-is?

'Excellent mech pilots' as a human sub/parallel species are a big mecha anime trope, so we're intentionally leaning in that direction for current and future players. The FM's are pretty aligned around this direction, their cultural impact, etc, etc, so I think we're good with this direction if everything works out. The culture page and some of the other wiki work has also been laid for these, so this is just the first in a series of major updates for the NDC. :D

We're also planning to prop up the Gunja (a species native to the NDC's territory) more and do some more exploration within the space around the NDC's current territory. That might add some more opportunities to diversify the species base further, but those are still soft plans at the moment.

Thanks again!
 
Let's go with not changing the format too much but what you can switch over to product, do so for. Things like the URL fall under something that would be a product, not a species.

Alright, Syaoran remembered the Advancer had an implantation section: https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=corp:advancer:physical_supercharger#implantation
About it he summed it up pretty well to me: "It's nothing big or expansive. Just enough to let someone know what kinda operation their character is undergoing off screen for roleplay info."

Also I've been looking for that Advancer thread and saw A LOT of NDC tech that could be incorporated into a modular upgrade system. Currently this thread only briefly mentions how it works alongside the Geist and Anima systems but if it was built up FROM those systems and built to work ON TOP of not just alongside, it would feel way more NDC, in the end, I think. Having all the systems that mean something to each other in a valid way and not just a "can work alongside but doesn't have to" has staying power.
 
Product feels weird, but if that's what you think is best we can go with that. I can see the angle.

The Geist has an implantation section that reads like this:

The first change is the significantly improved installation process. To install, the Geist 2.0 is placed against the back of a user's neck. It emits a brief, near-freezing gust of air around its rim, nullifying the pain of it attaching itself to the user's skin. Over the course of the next few days, the Geist's external shell, made primarily of Madite, a titanium alloy, and a bottom layer of a bioglass-like material, sinks into the user's skin and makes contact with the bone underneath. Over time, the user's body will naturally meld the 'bottom' portion of the device into the C4 vertebrae along the user's spine, securing it in place. Care has been taken to ensure that the device will attach only to the desired vertebrae. After healing, a penny-sized indicator light will remain exposed through the user's skin.

While the device is being integrated, it releases and coordinates with nanites in the user's blood to begin the assimilation process. Compared to the original Geist, this is a gradual process. Instead of extreme pain, the user will periodically experience mild pain, visual artifacts, and dizziness. The total installation time is approximately a week, but only a few minutes of that time require a medical professional to ensure that the Geist is attached in the correct location and to provide a supplemental dose of nanites.

I'll summarize that some in the Operator article and make sure to include a reference link.

The intent is very much that the Operator is made to use the Geist and Anima as a core feature - I can try and strengthen that language if you think that's appropriate. For the NDC's ships, mechs, etc, the Operators are being created as sort of a biological CPU. They just have the choice to go and do other things. Eventually, a large portion of the NDC's population will be Operators.

I'll put a pass into some of these changes today. Is it alright if we hold off on renaming the article? I don't want the thread's initial link to get lost, but am fine with changing it at the end.
 
Have any changes been made?

You don't have to do a big summary of the gesit or anything too big, but strengthening he language and references to the modular parts would help.

It is supposed to be a product in that it's an upgrade. Let me know what's weird to you, if you want, but Syaoran and I are pretty sure it's better as a product, not a mildly different human species.
 
Syaoran likely will be the one to tell you as I have passed the baton to him, so to speak, to post here. But I'll still be looking and working with him as needed, maybe posting! Thank you so much : ]
 
Okay as mentioned, I'll be tagging in to the front position on this one, but it's still both me and Ame working on the review together. We've been a looking a a point of the article and wondering. Do you still intent for this to be a thing that can only be done to someone 'at birth'? The way this article writes it, not only does it suggest this is not something you can have done later in life, but it writes it as these operators are a strong subculture of their own and not really the same culture as the general NDC.
 
Someone could transfer their mind (one way) into an Operator body, if they chose to, but otherwise they are created as wholly new individuals. 'Operator' is not a template or an upgrade - much like you don't 'become' a Neko/ID-SOL/etc later in life without doing a mind transfer of some kind, the same is also true for Operators.

Operators are intended to be, eventually, one of the major/signature 'species' of the NDC. Their inclination towards operating machines lines up with many mech tropes (coordinators, newtypes, etc, etc..), which is the direction we're moving the faction in so that we can start to differentiate ourselves from the other major factions in a more meaningful way. When a new player shows up, we want to be able to be 'the mech faction'. Other factions do it, but it's the NDC's main thing. We plan to expand this more into the daily lives of the population, our military strategy, etc, etc.

The cultural side of things are another part of our intentional shift towards becoming more unique. The idea is that Operators, as a mass of the population who all go through similar training and education, come out into the world with certain preconceptions and ways of doing things. As they grow in population, their beliefs will slowly become more and more normal within the NDC until Operator culture is sufficiently pervasive enough to be NDC culture. There will be things that Operators do that is unique to them even then, but in general we intend for them to have a significant impact.

I hope that explains it? Let me know if you have further questions. And thanks! :D
 
I'm going to reiterate something that was said because I'm not sure it is coming through clearly, and I want to say it as gently as possible. But you are aware, that a "Human+1" species is not currently allowed to be made. You've many times compared this to the ID-SOL, and I get that, but I don't think it's being understood, that something like the ID-SOL is not currently allowed to be made.

This is why it was suggested that this should be turned into a 'product' as opposed to a species. I do understand that the NDC wants their own brand of 'super soldier' and there is nothing wrong with that. But the super soldiers can't be a species of human+1 they either have to work as not a species, or be something more substantial than 'Human+1' to add to the setting as a whole.

For reference when the term "Human+1" is used it's referring to simply using the format of the human race, and tacking on extra powers or quirks to make them "not humans". Examples would be things like the Betazoids and Trills in Startrek, Orions as well as Vulcans too. Also the majority of the 'Near-Human' classed species in Star Wars would count as 'Human+1'.
 
I was wondering if, and this is just idle speculation on my part, the Operators could be treated as a subspecies of human, explicitly a type of human but altered. The logic may be a bit flimsy, and maybe I should have said something earlier, but I feel that treating them as explicitly a subspecies could perhaps solve the issue somewhat, without fundamentally altering the nature of a very labor-intensive article that has had multiple months worth of work put into it.

Secondly, I keep seeing you guys saying to treat them as a product, but it's unclear to me what that entails. Is the alterations to that something that you are willing to help with?
 
I understand that the article took quite some time to make and I sympathize. But it's not as if the "No human+1" species rule is new it has been there for years. As for turning it into a product, when we say that, we more so mean something along the lines of turning it into an 'operation' to make someone into essentially a super soldier. Like whatever Captain America's project was, or the Weapon X project, or any number of comic book or media examples. A 'package' of enhancements that someone could get for themselves.
 
Some context on how we ended up here from the faction planning thread I linked before:

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1592177186236.png
(Wes - I didn't think you'd mind that being public, but wasn't sure who has access to what so I included it here. I can remove it if you'd prefer not to be quoted like this)

There was a lot of discussion with other FMs and such that led to that decision, but we came into this submission with the understanding that we didn't need to be concerned about the Human+1 rule. You guys haven't been going over my head - I just thought I'd addressed the point in my first reply sufficiently. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough about that.

If that's not the case and we still need to be compliant, then here's a question - is there an issue with us applying this 'product' during the clone creation process?

IE..
  1. We start with a human clone in a process that is essentially the same one as currently described in the Creation Process article (we'd make it not Operator-specific, and instead NDC-specific)
  2. At some point during its creation process, we can choose to apply a 'template' which can modify the currently in progress clone (template being something like 'Operator')
  3. The new clone comes out of the tube as an Operator-templated human
optionally
  1. An existing human (or other species? maybe we diversify some if it's just a thing we apply to someone) wants to be an Operator
  2. They go through some process to get their body and genetics modified to the new thing
  3. They are now an Operator-templated something
The end result is basically the same, but we're not introducing a new species. If that's okay, then I can work on making the changes required.

Thanks!
 
I have to go to bed soon so we can start a full discussion tomorrow, but with this post, yes you're on the right track there, and that was kinda what we were imply. The exact details ow where the limits need to be will be worked out of course and we can discuss back and forward what you feel needs to be retained and what can change, but the general idea is there.

And now I know that it must seem kinda silly that this 'product' method works but you can't just make a new species. But it's actually a pretty big difference in the landscape of setting narrative. As a 'product' it doesn't introduce a new 'culture' in the same way, and it doesn't effect the 'race distribution' in the same way either.It is hard to put into words, but I guess the clearest way to explain it would be like, if you were playing a game, and each type of say 'scientist' (biologist, chemist, and so on) was its own separate fully fleshed out class, it would be considered 'bloated' but rather if 'scientist' was one class and then you had the ability get get equipment and skills that specialized you in a specific science, it wouldn't feel as bloated.
 
Okay - I've had a chance to talk with Syaoran about the changes they'd like to see. Going to work on those over the next day or so. I'll update this thread with new links, etc, when I've got things taken care of.
 
Thanks for the check in!

I've got most of the changes made at this point and have had Syaoran confirm that the direction I'm going in is better. I've got another item or two to wrap up before I'm ready to put up the new links.
 
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