[Nep] What's the Loose Equpiment Load for Hostile PA?

[Kevyn]

I have a good handle on what a Hostile can carry in regards to minimissiles and long arms. But there's a few gaps in the armour's abilities that, I personally feel, can be relatively easily filled with standard issue light (i.e. unpowered) infantry equipment.

So could one of the Nepleslian tech boffins answer me roughly how much in the way of hand thrown grenades (particularly smoke grenades, but they look to be roughly the same size) and assorted demolitions gear (particularly satchel charges and door breaching kit) a Hostile can carry?

 

[Sigma]

You seem to have missed one crucial point about the Hostile (and its larger cousins) - they are Nepleslian power armors. Subtlety means nothing. Smokescreens mean nothing against an enemy that is equipped with radar. Raw, naked aggression is the greatest weapon the Hostile can have. Unless it's dealing with starship/vacuum rated bulkheads and doors, a Hostile can simply rip doors open. It is a walking tank.

None of the power armors carry pockets for grenades. Mini-missiles tend to do a better job.

If you want to bring demolitions, you need to consult your squad leader and GM.

 

[Kevyn]

There's nothing wrong with attaching a bit of intelligence to that aggression. I get that Nepleslians are aggressive, but they're not stupid either. Sure it's not perfect, but it's better than nothing at all. Radar is not as intuitive as visual target acquisition meaning that they'd be slowed at least a little. And considering the weight involved, it sounds like a good investment since it's a capability that's overlooked in the armour's standard equipment array.

And reading back in the game thread I'm in, the 4th was facing a lot of mushu light infantry, not just Daisys and Rippers. Smoke will be useful against them while forcing the heavy armour to move to that particular point so that other teams can hit a weakened point. Also, pairing smoke grenades with DART mini-missiles means that you've cut their radar and they don't have any visual reference either. Suddenly you can get close without taking damage. Sure, you can use your power armour as a battering ram. But using it as a battering ram that hits them with full shields and undamaged armour? Much better option.

As for demolitions, I have asked in the OOC vis a vis demolitions and am still waiting on a response. In the mean time I asked here for what it could carry, as future reference if nothing else since it is part of my character's training.

 

[Kevyn]

Oh, and I should add: blowing a hole in the wall has a few advantages over just ripping it apart with your bare hands. It's faster, can make a bigger hole in an instant allowing for more than one PA to move through the breach at a time, and it disorients and potentially wounds anyone on the other side so they can't fight back when you enter.

 

[Demonblooded]

Ok. So here's the deal. SARP is built around lolhax sensory. To the point where stealth is largely impossible in any real form. Neko foot infantry literally have 3D sonar, Light amplification vision, Thermal Vision, Wireless communications and a heap of other highly abusable capabilities. So to actually jam them you'd need wide spectrum audio, various visual spectrum, and then the actually communications wavelengths jammed. Not saying smoke and mirrors doesn't have a place in combat. Just saying that in SARP that the basic furball is a sensory outpost and it just gets more ridiculous from there. Most every armor can see through feet of steel, rip open most doors, and generally has been expected from miles out due to the lolhax sensors detecting "ambient (insert power type here) radiation". Given this environment reasonable use of smoke, chaff, and well explosives is purposeless. That said. I'm totally bolting a carrying case to the back of my armor and loading up on RX-33 and other demo work equipment. Because blasting new doors can be cool and spalling is a good thing on the other side of a wall.

https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=nepleslia:rx33&s[]=rx&s[]=33

As for Hostile loadout. you have your sidearm,sidearm ammunition, breadknife, the antimissile turrets, your two missile racks, and then whatever the GM will let you get away with carrying main weapon wise. Usually one but if you're lucky two of the beefy PA weapons. With the hostile there's not as much room to play. Missiles can be DART, ARROW, or BOLT depending on if you want to take out shields, material, or localized holes of everything. If you were rocking an AGG you could swap them out for a Bulldog also. But until you make friendly with the supply officer or rank custom loadouts is largely limited to the missile racks and primary weapons you carry.

 

[Kevyn]

I will point out that DARTs explicitly temporarily jam sensors as well as dropping some types of shields. With sensors down you just have visual as a means of targeting, which the smoke counters. So you have a bunch of Nekos tittering at the silly Nep for using smoke, and then a full spread of DARTs scrambles their sensors for the few crucial seconds it takes for the Hostiles to close and get stuck in. I don't see why that wouldn't be worth trying. Even if it means my character commandeering someone's kit bag to haul some grenades in the old fashioned way.

I get that it's lolhax sensor tech, but it seems to follow for me that it would come with at least a measure of lolhax jamming tech as well. And after all, why would you have smoke grenades listed at all if they had no use what-so-ever?

 

[Demonblooded]

Because smoke grenades work against other neps. As for Darts dropping sensors remember that we're fighting robots that are using targeting scripts. Their sensors are hearing, sight, and all that stupid wireless BS in their head. Have you ever played a game with poorly coded script for flashbangs/flares where they didn't work on the enemy's at all? That's pretty much what you're dealing with here. Short of popping their head you can't actually disable all their sensory at once.

No one has really made lolhax jamming yet.
Kind of dies in the NTSE for some reaon. *cough*

 

[Kevyn]

I don't... quite... follow... :?

So, because Neko and Mushu PA use these sensors they're explicitly immune to even temporary jamming? I mean, there are people piloting these things, right? Why wouldn't they be inconvenienced by having their sensors dropped temporarily? Especially the Nekos that are on foot, not in armour at all.

 

[Fian]

One of the main Nepleslian PA design principles was: Nothing that can be carried and used by non-PA infantry can hurt PA infantry. This has been largely true except for a few instances (AM Panzerfausts during the Civil War and Impaler Rifles in the NMX war).

Because of this, Nep PAs are centered around combating other PAs and thus armed accordingly with PA-sized weapons with no provision for carrying infantry sized weapons (Which will generally be unable to harm PAs, and which anti-PA weaponry will be more than sufficient for dealing with).

So if you want to carry infantry sized equipment, you will have to tape, tie, strap, glue, wear a human sized fanny pack around your PA sized arm, or otherwise improvise some method of attaching it or a container carrying it to your PA, preferably away from any joints, intake or exhaust nozzles. Said containers or items, being roughly jury rigged to the PA, would be subject and vulnerable to the high speed manuvers and damages suffered by the PA.

tl;dr, with these considerations, you figure out how much you can carry and in what manner are you doing it yourself.

 

[Kevyn]

@Fian: That makes sense. So I guess I'm mostly wondering at what point load effects performance and the absolute weight capacity of a Hostile, which as near as I can tell isn't listed anywhere.

Also, while looking for the weight capacity of the Hostile I noticed the Noisemaker jammer for the first time. How does that interact with sensors and the jamming provided by DARTs?

 

[Demonblooded]

I don't... quite... follow... :?

So, because Neko and Mushu PA use these sensors they're explicitly immune to even temporary jamming? I mean, there are people piloting these things, right? Why wouldn't they be inconvenienced by having their sensors dropped temporarily? Especially the Nekos that are on foot, not in armour at all.

Umm, almost. What I meant was because Neko and Mishhu have these sensors. It actually gets more ridiculous with them being in PAs. Remember. They're not people. They're pretty much mini PAs being run by an OS. They've been downgraded though the years in regards to direct combat but were one of the original reasons Nepleslians started getting into PAs.

Noisemaker is for jamming comms. by making so much white noise that you can be pinpointed from about 50km out.

 

[Kevyn]

Okay, that makes a bit more sense. But what about them makes them immune to jamming? Presumably they work on the same wavelengths of independent sensors of the same type, so they'd be hit by jamming even if it's biomechanical rather than mechanical mechanical. So if their exotic radiation senses are jammed, they still can fall back to visible spectrum targeting which can be interfered with through simple systems coupled with the chameleon abilities of the Hostile.

I'd just like to add, I hope that I'm not coming off as butthurt about getting my idea shot down. I'm genuinely having trouble wrapping my head around how the stated paradigm there meshes with the capabilities listed in the Setting Guide.

 

[Fian]

@Fian: That makes sense. So I guess I'm mostly wondering at what point load effects performance and the absolute weight capacity of a Hostile, which as near as I can tell isn't listed anywhere

Yep, it isnt. We dont really have hard and fast stats here. But if you consider that the Hostile can take an ID-SOL pilot weighing around 300KGs, and can carry another Power Armor of its weight class (With some difficulty, but you arent gonna leave your buddy behind arent you?) which is upwards of 2 tons, and the general negligble weight of infantry gear with regards to PAs (Because infantry gear has to be carried by non-power assisted infantry). I'm gonna assume that unless you are carrying so much pure metal sheets that it counts as legitimate extra protection to your PA, the question isnt really about weight but about stuff obstructing your range of movements at most.

Also, while looking for the weight capacity of the Hostile I noticed the Noisemaker jammer for the first time. How does that interact with sensors and the jamming provided by DARTs?

Noisemakes interact with sensors and other jammers by outright jamming anything and everything indiscriminately, its effectiveness lies in its complete lack of subtlety, which also means you'll be feeling it as much as the enemy too.

 

[Fian]

Okay, that makes a bit more sense. But what about them makes them immune to jamming? Presumably they work on the same wavelengths of independent sensors of the same type, so they'd be hit by jamming even if it's biomechanical rather than mechanical mechanical. So if their exotic radiation senses are jammed, they still can fall back to visible spectrum targeting which can be interfered with through simple systems coupled with the chameleon abilities of the Hostile.

There has been (recent, even) preceedent that the interpretation of technology in this setting is not by the general masses, or the tech designer himself, but of the GM running the plot. So there are no hard and fast answers (again!) but If I were the GM I would call your above statement as correct.

 

[Kevyn]

Yep, it isnt. We dont really have hard and fast stats here. But if you consider that the Hostile can take an ID-SOL pilot weighing around 300KGs, and can carry another Power Armor of its weight class (With some difficulty, but you arent gonna leave your buddy behind arent you?) which is upwards of 2 tons, and the general negligble weight of infantry gear with regards to PAs (Because infantry gear has to be carried by non-power assisted infantry). I'm gonna assume that unless you are carrying so much pure metal sheets that it counts as legitimate extra protection to your PA, the question isnt really about weight but about stuff obstructing your range of movements at most.

I see I see. Well, that's the original question solved at least, thanks. I wonder if I can edit the title of this thread to '[Nep] Hostile Detection Jamming Options'...

Noisemakes interact with sensors and other jammers by outright jamming anything and everything indiscriminately, its effectiveness lies in its complete lack of subtlety, which also means you'll be feeling it as much as the enemy too.

So situationally useful. For instance, useful for crossing enemy fire lines in a hurry. Got it.

 

[Aendri]

I'd argue that's about the worst time to use it. Remember, the big thing about the noisemaker is it's utterly general, meaning it affects you too. And crossing enemy lines in a rather large PA while being blind to anything you're not looking at isn't my idea of a good time.

 

[Kevyn]

You wouldn't use it for the entire assault. Just for the five or ten seconds it would take you to cross a kill zone. So you turn on the multispectrum jammer, and run like a maniac while the Nekos try and adjust to having their more exotic senses flooded with the EW equivalent of someone piping an Aethersperm concert into their ear. When you're back in some sort of cover, you turn it off so that you're using something better than Mk. I Eyeball as well.