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Approved Submission [Psychopomp] Silverback

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Whisper

🎖️ Game Master
Retired Staff
Hey Ace! Some general stuff I saw on a first pass:
  • Does Psychopomp operate within any of the factions? If so, even if Psychopomp is independent we'll still want to include those factions for review when submitting things. If truly independent with no possible faction interaction, I'll ask @Wes to give his thumbs up.
  • The art is cool! Make sure you include art credits. We skip these sometimes, especially if the article's creator is also the artist (like with a lot of DOGA stuff), but attribution is necessary. You can add this to the end in the 'OOC Notes' section.
  • The template included some guidance on text that should come before the picture in the first section before the art, please add that in.
  • Years should usually get a link in the form of [[timeline:YE_43]] whenever they pop up for the first time.
  • Designer, manufacturer, and fielded by all need to be links - even though they're all the same thing.
  • If Psychopomp is its own thing, it'd probably be good to put Independent (Psychopomp LLC) in the 'Fielded By' just so that it's more clear.
  • The Tier is too high for Power Armor, which caps at T6.
    • Similarly, the advantages section "..provides superior range capabilities to any competing armors and even mechs..." and the fire power/defense statements are likely unachievable by a PMC compared to things made by Nepleslia or Yamatai. I'll @Charmaylarg Dufrain and @Wes for thoughts here.
    • ... that said, as marketing speech I'm all for it.
    • If you want to keep the Tier, at 12 feet tall you're already creeping into Light Mecha territory - Nepleslia's Cyclops is a large "PA" that is classified as a Mecha, so there's precedent. Granted, it's for ID-SOLs and they're huge, but still.
  • Zesuaium is exclusive to the Star Army of Yamatai. @Wes can let me know if you guys worked something out on this front, but otherwise you should select something else.
  • The aether battery is a pretty significant piece of tech that should probably be a separate submission.
  • The weapon (Trident) and its ammo should be separate submissions. The ammo can be a sub-article to keep them together. Same for the LEAR.
    • Keep in mind the reduced DR of the Silverback itself when porting these over - they should likely cap around T7 for a PA weapon if the ROF is low enough.
  • Grammar and formatting are pretty good overall. There's a few small things (like 'THESEUS System' not having a new line after it) that I think you'll catch on a second pass, but I don't see any major issues here.
I'll try to keep a closer eye on my notifications so that you don't wait too long once the above has been resolved/sorted out.

Thanks for the submission!
 

Ace

🎖️ Game Master
So my whole thing about not classifying it as a mecha and why the range would be so high is due to the fact that there is some RP (its linked in the article) that demonstrates that it can match the same range as an artillery platform that is quite large. (this was when it was still in its prototype phase. The trade off for not classifying it as a mecha is due to the fact that if I do I feel that it would thereby be unreasonable for it to be as slow as it is with its propulsion hence why its a stockier suit.

You mentioned callling it a PA but having it classified as a Mecha. How would that work? I'll get to work on fixing the other things you've mentioned as well.
 

Ace

🎖️ Game Master
The suit was also field tested some by NDC so @Jack Pine probably needs to weigh in on this would I put that in history since that was a trade deal or would that go somewhere else.
 

Ace

🎖️ Game Master
As for the Zesuanium I was under the thought that it was for sale on the market and if not there is lots of debri floating around from the kuvexian war that could have been salvaged for this purpose. If this is wrong please let me know and I'll correct it
 

Ace

🎖️ Game Master
My bad I meant NPS I always get confused. And also Alex the NDC and PP are on good terms currently and PP has even lent some operatives to the NDC for some mercenary work
 

Ace

🎖️ Game Master
I also took a second look at the template and cannot see what should come before the picture in the first section as the template begins with the History section
 

Whisper

🎖️ Game Master
Retired Staff
Oh weird on the template - it wasn't following the usual setup. I've fixed it. It should just a small fix on your part - moving some text around mostly. Since this one isn't your issue, I can fix it for you if you'd like. Your call. :)

For the PA/Mecha thing, you could just say something like, "While the suit operates in a fashion similar to a Power Armor, its size, weapons, and durability put it into a class akin to that of smaller Mecha." and then you're good to go.

DR is mostly about size, not durability or weapon compliment. A simple example would be that a Light PA with Zesu might be more durable than a Heavy PA with aluminum armor. At the end of the day, weapon effectiveness, armor, etc, is entirely up to GM discretion. A single torpedo could take out an entire space station (ala the Death Star) if the plot calls for it. Trying to go up (or down!) a DR class without changing the size of the thing in question to match breaks the entire system, so it's one of the few places where I'll draw a hard line.

(Personally, I'd recommend making it a Heavy PA with heavy armor - which is what the description says it is. It won't change how you use it in RP at all, but will make it the 'most' correct to the rules.)

Zesu is definitely not for sale and anyone trying to sell stuff using it is likely going to run afoul of the Star Army. Additionally, the way its made means that it can't be reshaped. You're completely welcome to grab some scraps, track down an aether cutter of some kind (which has its own 'legal' headaches, but it could be done) and attach those to individual units or use them as shields/swords.

There's some history of making katanas out of wrecked ships, so there's precedent here. If you do really want to use ship scraps as part of the submission's armor, we should loop in Wes/a Yamatai FM on that one just to make sure he's cool with it and talk through the potential IC ramifications. I'm happy to help you work through that if you really want to pursue it, but I'd be doing you a disservice if I didn't make you fully informed of all the concerns around it.

As for having used it in RP already - we can't really use that to establish precedent, because until something has been formally approved it's not really approved for use in character. I'm down for working with you to have your submission match your vision as much as we can make it work, though!

So, that's a lot of text, so in summary..
  • Our bad on the template. I've fixed it in a small way to make it more inline with the Mindy and other PAs that your Silverback should match format with. I can fix it or you can.
  • DR - you can go up in size and just make it clear that it is a light mecha that's just big enough to cross the threshold, but still operates like a PA. Or keep it as a Heavy PA, which is probably more accurate.
  • Either remove the Zesu or work with Wes/Andrew/Ra to find a way for Psychopomp to use it that feels right. I'm fine with this being legal or not legal, IC, so long as everyone else is and we call it out appropriately in the article.
  • The other stuff from the previous post still stands afaik.
Thanks for getting back to me so quick, Ace. I know this is a lot of text but the actual changes needed are pretty minor for the most part.
 

Ace

🎖️ Game Master
Concerning Zesu if thats the case I might just go ahead and tak on another article to make a new material since zesu was really just chosen as it fit closest to what I had in mind in terms of strength and durability. I am open to working with Ra or Wes on this and was aware of the limitations of Zesu (why the plates are able to be taken off and replaced modularly) though was unaware that it was unavailable on the market as the wiki page for it does not state as much only that Yamatai is the sole producer of it and that it is very expensive (I thought this meant market value my bad.)

I'll get the changes made and the other articles created. The DR will get downsized to fit the class (thank you for the GM clarification) and will get the first section changed soon.
 

Ace

🎖️ Game Master
Any time im new to this stuff and most of the stuff thats wrong was a misunderstanding so no harm. Only real question i have left is about the ATLAS ammo type do I have to change the tier it does since its at tier 9 to things without shields or is it fine since it changes to tier 6 if there is shielding and its a type of ammo where most of the force comes from its payload and not the Silverbacks weapon itself
 

Whisper

🎖️ Game Master
Retired Staff
In general, component is the best grab-all for stuff that doesn't fit the other template. It's definitely the right fit for your aether battery.

For your ammo, here's some things to consider:
  • When you're deciding on a weapon for your things, we always consider the maximum damage it could do. So if I made a pistol that could somehow fire T15 ammo, anything that can use that ammo should be treated as a T15. This doesn't always mean we should max out all of a weapon's ammo - best judgment and all that - but it does mean that it limits where that pistol could be used. (Going by usual site standards, it could only be equipped by a T14 or T15)
    • Similarly, if I made a T15-scale weapon that could only fire T1 ammo, the rules would treat it was a T1- even though it's huge. How an unarmored person picks up something that large and wields it, I dunno, but the rules say they could give it a try
  • DR is, at the end of the day, is just for reference. If your ammo is T6, but you say 'against unshielded armor, it deals more damage' then it's just giving direction to the GM on what to do with it.
    • I would still say that if you want it to be 'Potentially Lethal' against T9 stuff, then anything using it is a T9 weapon.
    • If it's 'armor penetrating T6 that's more effective against unshielded targets', then at the GM's discretion it might be able to take down things much higher than T6 if the situation is right. I hope this makes sense.
    • A good example here is Noval's Diadem cannon. It's rated T9 (I think) but the description says that it can use hyperspace folds to slice through anything that is unshielded. It could destroy a T15 if it hit the right spot... or do nothing at all. The beam might be too slow to hit a T8 or cut an entire city in half. It might completely annihilate something with its shields down or do nothing at all to an active shield. Etc, etc.. T9 tells us that, on average, it is Potentially Lethal to things in the T9 size category. It's just guidance.
 
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Charmaylarg Dufrain

🦾 FM of Nepleslia
🎖️ Game Master
I was summoned.

I have no issue with another large PA/entry-level mecha rivaling what Nep has (Such as the Cyclops, Devestator, or Agressor) if that's what i was called for my opinion on. Being *better than* i would quirk a brow at, as PP doesnt have the logistical, financial, or R&D backing of institutions like NAM or the YSE who are the sectors prodigies when it comes to warfare and the tools used in it.

And while Nep doesnt allow mecha-grade powered armor for personal use they do allow it for mercenary groups so thats not an issue. And even being an unaffiliated group without Nep backing doesnt disallow them from performing mercenary activities in/around Nepspace. It just means when, not if, they come afoul of the Nepleslian government one way or another as most anyone does when they garner attention and dont have ties to the state; They wouldn't be given the same protection or leniency.

There is a slight issue with the Aether aspect but as Ace has made a submission for that ill bring that topic there and not here as its more appropriate to keep it in the respective threads~
 

Ace

🎖️ Game Master
The description stuff is more of a flavor text but it is meant to also hold some weight Psychopomp may not hold the backing of one of the superpowers but they are still quite a big company full of as their page states some of the best and brightest in their fields at least at the time of its founding. They have several specialty products to gain revenue in some of which require checkups potentially so they have no trouble with revenue. As for why the *better than* wording is used is due to the fact that there haven't been any new armors released in recent years so one that is using new tech and production methods would normally be considered better to antiquated models, This isn't me trying to beat my chest or anything I just want to make sure that this isn't shot down because "The company is too small to do that" innovations are normally found by small organizations since they are the ones with something to prove and need to put something out that can not only compete with larger, more well-know companies but can surpass them and really leave a mark.

With that being said the armor is not better overall its specialized in defense and range it would get the shit kicked out of it in a head to head.
 

Alex Hart

FM of NDC
I'm just curious, why is it longer than it is tall? It doesn't seem to be that way in the art.

Also, its cost seems a bit low for such a heavy and large suit, was that intentional? Finally, I noticed a mismatch between the ammunition tiers for the Tridents and the tier for the weapon (3-7 for the ammo, 3-9 for the weapon).

Just wanted to call attention to any of these inconsistencies so they could be addressed. I like the idea of big heavy PA/light mech in contrast to the normal high mobility stuff we have on the site.
 

Whisper

🎖️ Game Master
Retired Staff
To your point about things aging out, a year from now you may introduce something that's supposed to be better than the Silverback - but the Silverback's language still says it's the best thing. Then GMs/players are stuck trying to figure out what to do.

There have been new PAs and mechs introduced in the last year, too. Maybe not from PP, but Nepleslia has had a few major updates to its PAs recently and the current Mindy is still very much top of the line.

The wiki itself should be objective where possible. Bombastic language can be put into quotes, promotional flyers, etc - stuff that is clearly in character - but the out of character descriptions should focus on what it does. Any comparisons should be direct and 'measurable', to the extent that anything in a RP is measurable. (An easy example - if you make a second generation version of a gun, of course you'll compare the two.)

Pretty much all corps and factions say they have the best and brightest. That's not a knock - it's just an observation/statement of fact. I like to think that in a sector as populated as the Kikyo, there are a lot of 'the best and brightest' to go around. It does mean that it's not a good justification for any one group's things to be better than some other group's things - because that other group probably has their own best and brightest working diligently.

To Char's point, big groups like Nepleslia have a lot of people and funding behind their projects. To Ace's point, small groups often innovate well and disrupt things. There's room for both to excel.

Anyways.

I don't have any issues with your intent behind the submission's capabilities, but 'better than' leads to a lot of chest-thumping and arms-racing that we should avoid. I think you'll have more luck easing off on that type of language and letting the submission's capabilities speak for itself.
 
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