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- I agree
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Approved Submission [SAOY] Type 41 Aetheric Heavy Anti Material Rifle/AHAMR + ammo
- Thread starter SirSkully
- Start date
A few points I want to make before starting the review proper;
First is the ammunition article appears to have some filler text remaining in the stats section, and in the discharge information and Ammunition sections of weapon article itself.
Second is that initially upon reading this it looked like you were talking about a shell with a 120mm diameter, because you had written it out as 120x55mm. I suggest that you change it and rename that article to 55 x 120mm Aether-Slugs so as to prevent confusion.
I'm not sure if the SAoY tends to use or produce equipment not made by Yamatai based companies (or Origin, who they have a long-standing relationship with), so we should wait for Wes' word on that, I think. This also makes me somewhat unsure if the SAoY would manufacture it with proprietary sensors or continue to use the ones from Galactic Horizon. Again, we should wait to hear from Wes on that front.
First is the ammunition article appears to have some filler text remaining in the stats section, and in the discharge information and Ammunition sections of weapon article itself.
Second is that initially upon reading this it looked like you were talking about a shell with a 120mm diameter, because you had written it out as 120x55mm. I suggest that you change it and rename that article to 55 x 120mm Aether-Slugs so as to prevent confusion.
I'm not sure if the SAoY tends to use or produce equipment not made by Yamatai based companies (or Origin, who they have a long-standing relationship with), so we should wait for Wes' word on that, I think. This also makes me somewhat unsure if the SAoY would manufacture it with proprietary sensors or continue to use the ones from Galactic Horizon. Again, we should wait to hear from Wes on that front.
It was indeed FM approved, but I think that a case by case basis is best for now until there is an established relationship. It also appears that the Shinobi uses mostly if not entirely SAoY produced components, whereas the AHAMR uses the Galactic Horizon produced scope.
I don't really see the point of you bringing this up considering it all balances on the approval of a Yam FM regardless of IC or OOC relations (which have been going on between GH and Yamland for about a year now afaik, beginning with Yamland buying a good few of GH's cold climate suits and then GH being allowed to study a pretty heavily restricted material), so I would prefer this thread not get filled with irrelevant points like so many seem to be lately, thank you.
Syaoran
Retired Staff
@Wes can we get word on if it's okay for this to be manufactured by Ketsurui Zaibatsu for teh SAoY? Once we know if that is okay, I'll look it over for approval.
Syaoran
Retired Staff
Okay there isn't much on the gun itself, just break the recoil entry up into two segments, one for compensator off and one for compensator on. Also for discharge appearance there is nothing there except filler text, and for the ammunition section on the gun you still have filler text too.
As for the ammo page I don't see anything wrong.
As for the ammo page I don't see anything wrong.
Syaoran
Retired Staff
Okay now that that's out of the way, we'll have to talk about the up tier firing. Things are allowed to punch out of their weight class, but it shouldn't come without some trade offs. However the biggest problem with this right now, is that it allows a unarmored person to fire a shot that can damage a starship, without any real trade off.
It's going to need to slide down a little. For power armor being T8 is probably the max, so that is doesn't do significant damage to small starships. I've been trying to think of how to work this so that it's usable by unarmored infantry, but honestly all the specs were sitting at point to this is a PA/vehicle weapon. Even with the compensator, I'm not sure the range would really be possible to do without injuring someone as well.
Edit: So that this doesn't come off as negative. If you do want to keep this as a PA and Personnel weapon, it's probably going to need a low power mode with a different bullet. Going up 6Tiers of damage is just too high for the sake of balance.
It's going to need to slide down a little. For power armor being T8 is probably the max, so that is doesn't do significant damage to small starships. I've been trying to think of how to work this so that it's usable by unarmored infantry, but honestly all the specs were sitting at point to this is a PA/vehicle weapon. Even with the compensator, I'm not sure the range would really be possible to do without injuring someone as well.
Edit: So that this doesn't come off as negative. If you do want to keep this as a PA and Personnel weapon, it's probably going to need a low power mode with a different bullet. Going up 6Tiers of damage is just too high for the sake of balance.
@Syaoran sorry for the late response.
I'm completely fine with downing the tier a little bit, as for the trade off I was thinking about something that might help in that department - the weapon is semi-automatic, yes, but I was thinking maybe I could add some kind of ROF limiter tied in to the big old inertial compensator in the stock.
Would some kind of addition such as "it can fire x amount of shots in x amount of time before needing to recharge for x amount of time" so that it is more of a slower firing weapon help resolve this situation at all? As it goes right now unarmoured personnel firing with the compensator off is likely to kill the shooter, so it would put a hard lock on the ROF at least in that situation instead of people just being able to semi-auto spam it lol.
I'm cool with taking the range down by 10-15km or so.
Afterthought: I thought I had added this already to the article but apparently not, maybe something about it needing to be fired from a prone/resting position? I'm not referencing articles to try and get mine past the line but I believe the Finagle's Revenge rifle has something about you needing to take a stationary position before firing, so I may take inspiration from that - if indeed that is part of the Finagle's Revenge article~
I'm completely fine with downing the tier a little bit, as for the trade off I was thinking about something that might help in that department - the weapon is semi-automatic, yes, but I was thinking maybe I could add some kind of ROF limiter tied in to the big old inertial compensator in the stock.
Would some kind of addition such as "it can fire x amount of shots in x amount of time before needing to recharge for x amount of time" so that it is more of a slower firing weapon help resolve this situation at all? As it goes right now unarmoured personnel firing with the compensator off is likely to kill the shooter, so it would put a hard lock on the ROF at least in that situation instead of people just being able to semi-auto spam it lol.
I'm cool with taking the range down by 10-15km or so.
Afterthought: I thought I had added this already to the article but apparently not, maybe something about it needing to be fired from a prone/resting position? I'm not referencing articles to try and get mine past the line but I believe the Finagle's Revenge rifle has something about you needing to take a stationary position before firing, so I may take inspiration from that - if indeed that is part of the Finagle's Revenge article~
Some questions to be asked, not to dogpile but these things give me pause.
Why is it important to you @SirSkully to have it made available for unarmored personnel? I can't think of a time when a tank/mech is on the field and you need to shoot it down with someone out of armor in this setting. I also can't think of a situation in any setting where an unarmord person could shoot a gun at a station or enemy infrastructure other than a building?
I know the tier is going to drop, but how much of its purpose will change with that? Those above are more questions for if the purpose doesn't change.
If you did drop it by 16 km, it would still be able to be effective within 50 kilometers/ 31 miles, which seems absurd. What could be intended to be shot from that range? Is it meant for taking out like, airborne stuff?
Is this good to go as far as space combat, as well?
I also find this super limiting for roleplay: "...reserved for only the top marksmen and as such is seen as somewhat of a status symbol among Yamatai’s sharpshooters." Imagine being the GM that says, "No, your character isn't a good enough shot to get this gun, sorry."
Overall, it seems like a roleplay killer to me. It would be cool IRL to have this much striking power unaided by a suit. But in a written universe, it feels like something that gives too much "enemy's dead, 100% of them are gone, mission over" and leaves so much in the hands of one person. Try to think of how to make this something that pushes a mission and the critical thinking that is necessary in them without being buzzkill for every player but the one taking the shot.
Why is it important to you @SirSkully to have it made available for unarmored personnel? I can't think of a time when a tank/mech is on the field and you need to shoot it down with someone out of armor in this setting. I also can't think of a situation in any setting where an unarmord person could shoot a gun at a station or enemy infrastructure other than a building?
I know the tier is going to drop, but how much of its purpose will change with that? Those above are more questions for if the purpose doesn't change.
If you did drop it by 16 km, it would still be able to be effective within 50 kilometers/ 31 miles, which seems absurd. What could be intended to be shot from that range? Is it meant for taking out like, airborne stuff?
Is this good to go as far as space combat, as well?
I also find this super limiting for roleplay: "...reserved for only the top marksmen and as such is seen as somewhat of a status symbol among Yamatai’s sharpshooters." Imagine being the GM that says, "No, your character isn't a good enough shot to get this gun, sorry."
Overall, it seems like a roleplay killer to me. It would be cool IRL to have this much striking power unaided by a suit. But in a written universe, it feels like something that gives too much "enemy's dead, 100% of them are gone, mission over" and leaves so much in the hands of one person. Try to think of how to make this something that pushes a mission and the critical thinking that is necessary in them without being buzzkill for every player but the one taking the shot.
@Ametheliana to answer your first point, basically, I felt like it could be cool if sarp had its own version of this. Only real reason I have for unarmoured people being able to fire it is because it might be kinda cool, according to the DRv3 article there are anti-mech rocket launchers used by non-PA personnel so I figured it might be neat to have a big and clunky rifle that fulfills a similar purpose - also for the second part of that question, I'm not military and have never claimed to be so this could be wrong, but I am pretty sure anti-material rifles are used to take out things like aircraft (most likely parked ones irl), missile sites, radar installations and such.
p.s. I typed that up and then went to go check and apparently almost the exact same list of things is sitting on the Denel ntw 20 page lol
For the tier, Syaoran suggested perhaps tier 8 and I'd like to go for that but I am flexible to a degree.
Honestly for the whole range ordeal, the LASR MK II has a max range of 20km as well as being roughly half the length of the AHAMR and I used that as a baseline, though looking back at it I am pretty sure my brain put down 40 miles instead of 40 km and that's just my bad - I'm yet to see anybody suggest any new ideas for a range on this thing, but I am open to ideas.
@Alex Hart this should answer your post too.
For those last two points from Ame though, they seem more like an issue with the GM moreso than with the article itself, the first point not so much and I can change the availability a bit if need be - this isn't a "bring on every mission" weapon due to its size, bulk (that bulk extending to the clunky-ass magazines), the limited ammo capacity how expensive it is to fire the gun (I didn't put a specific price on it but it is an aether generator wrapped in expensive metals, so there is no way it is cheap).
Some ideas on how I could change parts of this though:
Adjust the range, obviously.
I should probably put a radius for the reaction that occurs when the shots land, probably 2-3 feet in diameter at most.
Would making the magazines lower capacity help at all? right now it has a drum mag that holds 9 shots (and I gave it that style of magazine to make carrying around more of them a hassle) but maybe a smaller magazine might help~
I still need to hear back from @Syaoran about giving the inertial compensator a recharge time to limit the rifle further but I reckon that might help a lot.
People seem to act like what I say is what I think is final when this is anything but true, I want things to be in a state that they can be approved in, so I am more than happy to change things here and there - I wanted unarmoured people to be able to fire this but in the end if I have to rip the inertial compensator out of the article then so be it, but yeah.
p.s. I typed that up and then went to go check and apparently almost the exact same list of things is sitting on the Denel ntw 20 page lol
For the tier, Syaoran suggested perhaps tier 8 and I'd like to go for that but I am flexible to a degree.
Honestly for the whole range ordeal, the LASR MK II has a max range of 20km as well as being roughly half the length of the AHAMR and I used that as a baseline, though looking back at it I am pretty sure my brain put down 40 miles instead of 40 km and that's just my bad - I'm yet to see anybody suggest any new ideas for a range on this thing, but I am open to ideas.
@Alex Hart this should answer your post too.
For those last two points from Ame though, they seem more like an issue with the GM moreso than with the article itself, the first point not so much and I can change the availability a bit if need be - this isn't a "bring on every mission" weapon due to its size, bulk (that bulk extending to the clunky-ass magazines), the limited ammo capacity how expensive it is to fire the gun (I didn't put a specific price on it but it is an aether generator wrapped in expensive metals, so there is no way it is cheap).
Some ideas on how I could change parts of this though:
Adjust the range, obviously.
I should probably put a radius for the reaction that occurs when the shots land, probably 2-3 feet in diameter at most.
Would making the magazines lower capacity help at all? right now it has a drum mag that holds 9 shots (and I gave it that style of magazine to make carrying around more of them a hassle) but maybe a smaller magazine might help~
I still need to hear back from @Syaoran about giving the inertial compensator a recharge time to limit the rifle further but I reckon that might help a lot.
People seem to act like what I say is what I think is final when this is anything but true, I want things to be in a state that they can be approved in, so I am more than happy to change things here and there - I wanted unarmoured people to be able to fire this but in the end if I have to rip the inertial compensator out of the article then so be it, but yeah.
META_mahn
Well-Known Member
From Discord, basically:
This looks more like an artillery emplacement piece than an anti-material rifle carried by unarmored soldiers. A 40 mile shot is doable with some serious business, something a 1.67m AM Rifle definitely isn’t capable of doing. That’s not something any personal weapon does, that’s a mortar or a cannon. Tier 9 as well, so it looks even more like an artillery emplacement.
You’ve made a great cannon. The issue is you wanted an anti-material rifle. So let’s pull up one made recently. Say hi to the Barrett M82.
Its effective range is 1.8km, compared to the M4 Carbine’s 500m, and a maximum range of 4km. By this math, the effective range is 3.6 times the length of the standard weapon soldiers are given. We can compare it to the LASR, which has an effective range of 4,000m in atmosphere (what.) So multiplying it by 3.6 we get 14.4km as a comparable effective range...
But, that’s just me playing with numbers. People have been known to lobshot with the Barrett, let’s lobshot one too with the effective to max range ratio the Barrett has. This gives us 32km as a maximum range for this BFG if we just screw around with ratios.
This looks more like an artillery emplacement piece than an anti-material rifle carried by unarmored soldiers. A 40 mile shot is doable with some serious business, something a 1.67m AM Rifle definitely isn’t capable of doing. That’s not something any personal weapon does, that’s a mortar or a cannon. Tier 9 as well, so it looks even more like an artillery emplacement.
You’ve made a great cannon. The issue is you wanted an anti-material rifle. So let’s pull up one made recently. Say hi to the Barrett M82.
Its effective range is 1.8km, compared to the M4 Carbine’s 500m, and a maximum range of 4km. By this math, the effective range is 3.6 times the length of the standard weapon soldiers are given. We can compare it to the LASR, which has an effective range of 4,000m in atmosphere (what.) So multiplying it by 3.6 we get 14.4km as a comparable effective range...
But, that’s just me playing with numbers. People have been known to lobshot with the Barrett, let’s lobshot one too with the effective to max range ratio the Barrett has. This gives us 32km as a maximum range for this BFG if we just screw around with ratios.
Syaoran
Retired Staff
Okay now that I'm back from my busy weekend I can comment on this. First, @SirSkully limiting how much the compensator can be used can be done and it can make a difference. But before we chance anything, let's figure out this. What are the important parts of this weapon design to you? What do you want to keep the same the most? We'll try and keep those the same and work around them, cause this is a weapon that can be changed from any angle to make it more fitting.
Admittedly, I designed the LASR when I carried less concern about proper, viable, accurate aerodynamics and more about, "I am gonna shoot this thing SUPER FAST and it'll go SUPER FAR and WOW THE ART'S SO COOL."
Also, SUPER HEAVY PROJECTILE, YEAH.
</interruption>
@SirSkully are you still on this?
