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  • 📅 October 2022 is YE 44.7 in the RP. 1 IC month = 1 OOC month for the rest of the year.

Senate: VOTING Senate Proposal #115 - Industrial Recognition Act

Ethereal

Well-Known Member
RP Date
44.5
RP Location
Imperial Palace
The Imperial Palace was filled with the muttering and murmuring of Senators and functionaries, seeming to be discussing the prospect of committees and whether a Speaker would ever be appointed. However, Senator Iemochi was tired of waiting for a Speaker and had instead decided to move his next Proposal to the Senate sooner, rather than waiting for one to be designated.

The Senator stood as he always did, behind his volumetric podium. A spider-pad was projecting a very accurate body double of his likeness, from PISCES station all the way over to here on Planet Yamatai. The blonde Elysian seemed a little different than last time he'd been seen, perhaps having grown a few inches and bearing some black-and-white feathers amongst his plumage.

Mochi looked up to where the Imperial Premier would normally stand, glancing at his watch. Usually they'd wait for either the Premier or Speaker to open business, but it seemed that for now, he'd have to press on without. He was on schedule, and intended to push this matter for debate rather than request a delay. Not that he'd be asking anyone other than some palace functionary who sent the SYNC messages.

"Greetings again, fellow Senators." He began, "You must be sick of seeing my face by now, but I hope you'll bear with me as always." Mochi grinned to the crowd, his voice filling the chamber, a smattering of chuckles coming in reply. "The seer! The prophet! The visionary of Yamatai! Here to enlighten us again!" A mocking coo came from one of the Senators, but it was so fast to be unplaceable in the chamber. The Elysian shook his head at the silly remark, a smirk on his lips. "Please, none of that now. I've just sent the Proposal to your pads, feel free to digest and debate. Nothing too existential today, you'll be happy to hear."
 

Soban

Convention Veteran
Anslen considered this, there were some very good reasons this had been stuck. A lot of powerful interests had 'opinions' about this particular law. However, the form it was currently in was good. It broadened the opportunities across the empire. He voted in favor of it.
 

Ethereal

Well-Known Member
There had been quiet on the Senate floor for quite some time.
3.5 IRL weeks and no more replies in that time. Need to move on to other Proposals.

Mochi simply spoke up, "If there's no objections, in the absence of the Premier or a Steward, I suppose I'll declare this vote as passed. Unless anyone wishes to speak up at this juncture?" After a few moments, he rapped his knuckles on the table theatrically. "Business concluded, I suppose."

@Wes to mark as accepted, lock, etc.
 

Soresu

Well-Known Member
"Would you please clarify further on the purpose of part five of your proposal?" a voice said from a seat near to that of where the Premier would have sat. A silvery haired Neko with cardinal red eyes and olive skin had just seated herself.

A name appeared in front of the desk she was seated behind, a retired Shosa of the now destroyed Tenth Fleet. Gushiken, Chizuru.

A volumetric screen appeared before her, a finger scrolling down the proposal.

'The Senate Committee for Commerce, or if this committee does not exist, an alternative body at the decision of the Senate, may manage the list of Major Corporations. This is to prevent the changing of the Major Corporations list to require a Proposal to be passed into law.'

Looking up from the screen, her gaze impassive, "I ask this for further clarification to prevent possible breaches of etiquette so as to ensure the smooth running of future sessions of this body should any possible amendments arise on this proposal. Should my need to attend said sessions if need be in regard to said committee." the volumetric screen closed, the woman now bringing up a data pad, looking to the Elysian attentively.

This is more so that I know for future references if a separate committee arises and if she needs to attend. We should also ping those playing Senators in the future so we can be on top of these things for our Senate bros I should think. Didn't catch this through my notifications. Too many posts passed by! x.x
 
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Yuuki

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"I believe this is sub-Senatorial business and rather than a committee we simply establish an independent regulatory body concerned with ensuring that the corporations involved are both up to technical and manufacturing standards and they lack any problematic non-Yamataian associations." Hitomi added after Steward spoke, "A Senatorial Committee is perhaps a bit much for the day to day vetting of suppliers to the Yamataian government, perhaps?"
 
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Ametheliana

🎖️ Game Master
Retired Staff
Senator for Xiuluria votes nay on Proposal #115.

Notes:

I. Proposal still needs editorial review.

II. Three new Major Corporate Suppliers have been added through this proposal, though they are all minor compared to the three they join. They may submit proposals to be included in the registrar of major suppliers through the sixth part of the Corproate Support Act of 23.

III. Merging the Corporate Supply Act of 23 and the relatively new Military Centralization Act adds no benefit to the system of need and supply in the Star Army, if anything it inhibits it. Both of these already enacted changes provide what Proposal #115 endeavors to do and have been without being merged and added to.

III. The Star Army Military Complex outlines Star Army Command and Star Army Logistics as capable of selecting corporate suppliers. If the floor feels they are no longer capable of doing so, this should be discussed. If that is not the case then a new organization to do their job will create supply chain issues in a currently well-oiled machine.
 

Ethereal

Well-Known Member
Seinosuke looked up in surprise at Chizuru's appearance. "Ah, apologies, it seems that our acting Steward is in attendance. It's a pleasure to see you here, Steward. I'll leave it to your discretion when to call the vote." The Elysian was in thought for a moment. "As Steward, I think the method by which committees and such run is down to you ultimately. You could appoint Presidents for the subcommittees to give a general sense of order, delegate someone from your staff to sit in on the meetings, or go down personally, perhaps? Unless anyone else here present believes such shouldn't be at the Steward's discretion?"

Mochi nodded once Hitomi had spoken. "Thank you for the input. Moving this business to another - hopefully subordinate - body is entirely acceptable. The only reason I thought it best to keep 'in-house' is that the list is so short and requests to be added so rare that it would not weigh upon our daily business." Mochi gestured to her, "Although, if my honorable colleague would still believe this better to be delegated, I will accept the amendment." He scratched his cheek, "We could go so far to put it under a Department run by the Premier, but I'd be apprehensive personally."

Glancing down at the submission from Xiuluria, Mochi sniffed. There were a couple of typos which he skimmed over, but he was mildly amused by the submission. "In regards to the message that just came in, I'm unsure what is meant by editorial review in this case." He went on, "In terms of its other points, I'm sure the Steward can confirm that the SAMIC is not under the control of the Senate and any legislation we pass constitutionally cannot influence the Star Army. As stated, Proposal 115 is only addressing civilian management of corporations and protecting them against fraud. It does not affect supply to the Star Army or its operations."

Mochi tapped his desk, "In this regard, the 20 year old Corporate Support Act is all we can go off and is in dire need of update. Parts of it are constitutionally unenforceable, and states nonsense such as CEOs having positions in our Senate and military. Also, the PNUgen Corporation, WickedArms Industries and Ketsurui Fleet Yards are the only civilian-world Major Corporations according to that document- the majority of which are effectively defunct. The new additions are very large names in the civilian space, some employing up to 30 million. It would save this Senate a lot of time to update the list whilst updating the law itself."
 

Yuuki

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"Given the Star Army Military Industrial Complex has superseded the sixth part of YE23, and turned over responsibility for the selection to the Star Army, then it is prudent to remove language from the current laws and regulations that require an act of Senate to accomplish the same, as that is no longer a valid route for recognition," the Koukotsu Senator replied to the notes given with the vote. "And the legislation of YE28 mentions only KZ and NovaCorp, the latter of whom is not only subsumed by Tamahagane along with Geshrinari, but has significantly declined in market output since the 30's. It's certainly now smaller than its one-time subsidiary, Yugumo, formerly MFY."
 
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Ametheliana

🎖️ Game Master
Retired Staff
Corrections were noted and resolved with the Koukotsu Senator's reply. A query came in response to the officially proposing (OP) Senator:

Has there been any recorded issue of fraud in the civilian corporate sector to instigate the proposal?
 

Ethereal

Well-Known Member
Seinosuke shook his head slightly, "In my reading of the law, the SAMIC allows the Star Army to designate its own Major Corporations explicitly for development of its own military products. However, the actions of the Star Army are constitutionally separate from those that directly change the governance of the civilian world. A Star Army decision such as making the SAMIC shouldn't supercede the civilian government's legislation, such as the Senate being able to designate Major Corporations for civilian products."

"For example. A notable corporation that could benefit in the civilian world from designation as a Major Corporation would never be accepted by the Star Army as a Major Corporation, and this leaves a vaccum that needs to be filled. In essence, the designation serves to allow Major Corporations access to sensitive-to-produce materials, some of which are decades old technologies. No doubt we can trust there are countless civilian applications of these technologies, as is always the case, so we'd be amiss to not ensure the civilian world can benefit from those."

Mochi tapped his chin lightly, "I'm sure that Major Corporations must have developed civilian technologies in the past using restricted materials, so there should be precedent for this."

At the new message that came in, Seinosuke nodded to himself. "In relation to the query that I just received, I don't believe there has been any record of explicit fraud being an issue historically. However, there's no regulatory body or Empire-wide law that exists in relation to fraud. Beyond the IAAC which has organically formed in the private sector as a self-defence mechanism, there are no safeguards or protections currently. Especially as there is no Empire-wide judicial body with which to dispute copyrights, only local courts. If someone made counterfeits of a product in a different system or sector from the company that makes the original, to my knowledge it would be impossible to stop currently short of an Imperial Order. If there isn't an invisible issue currently in relation to fraud and counterfeiting, there could be in the future without some kind of protection."
 

Yuuki

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"Given military purposes is the reason for restricting the use of materials, it doesn't seem like there should be a separate arbiter for that, and a good argument that what constitutes a major corporation for a military supplier constitutes the same in other circumstsances."
 

Ethereal

Well-Known Member
Mochi nodded a few times, "That's a very good point. However, I still feel like there is a niche where there are - and could be - some very large, established and trusted Yamataian companies that don't make military products. They can be trusted, but the Star Army simply wouldn't give them the time of day. It locks useful technologies, and the life-changing products that could result from them, behind doors that trusted companies simply can't open because they don't intend to use them for waging war."
 

Locked_0ut

Convention Veteran
Since they were dressed in his Class A's and sitting in on a senate session, Pierre decided standing and cheering Senator Iemochi might be a bit of a faux pas. They even sat in his seat like normal person instead of sitting perched with his hooves on the seat.

The senator was right. While, Pierre would urge the senate to loosen some of the more protectionist laws if he could. They'd tested so many great, foreign pieces of kit with Test and Eval Battalion that wouldn't see wide spread use because of the laws. At a minimum, they could allow a wider number of Yamatai companies to bid for major military contracts. It would be nice to see some new blood break the strangle hold Ketsurui had on Star Army projects. Companies could be vetted and the employees intended to work on SA projects could be cleared as well. There might be room for foreign firms to launch Yamatai subsidiaries, employing Yamatains to compete for SAoY projects. The Intel boys would hate it, but Pierre just wanted to find the best gear for the mission.
 

Soresu

Well-Known Member
The retired soldier turned Steward, Chizuru cleared her throat delicately.

"Two products produced both for civilian and military use are the fabrics utilized within the Type-42 Bodysuit in use by the Star Army and an underlying self-regenerative coating for its repair and lifesaving properties it seems, Senator.

License for these was granted to both military and civilian contractors by their designer who acted as an independent with no prior corporate affiliation. And she maintains overall rights and permissions of said release. Of which can be revoked by contractural agreement after a time period or contractural buyout. And she monitors this closely for possible infringement or fraud." that designer being the Senator of Jiyuu. Whos duties required her at the International Relations Conference.

"So, there is some precedent for independent entities to produce and design both civilian and military equipment if it is of benefit for public consumption and or military application. The latter of which may require input from the Mistress of Ships, Taisho Ketsurui, Yui, and or the required departments."

"I have also taken note that one senator is for, and another against this proposal. As a vote has already begun to take place I am remiss in a motion to call for a vote as Steward." nodding to those currently in debate, "But, might I suggest that the senators of Koukotsu, and Xiuluria and Virginia seek an adjournment for the time being to perchance work together to amend the said proposal? I see potential, yet feel if those currently involved can reach a consensus with eachs' concerns, this could be of great benefit."

"If not, we are at a tie."
 

Yuuki

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"I move for adjournment for amendment," said Koukotsu, in reply to the Steward, "I believe in the merit of the register as a concept, but perhaps some more definitional language is in order. I also certainly have already expressed my support for the explicit removal of language in older laws that conflicts with more modern ones, but I do not think that, other than removal of the defunct corporations, it should add or subtract from the list of entities currently designated in SAMIC as core and affiliate members. I believe that is a different matter for another time, and perhaps another body." She adjusted the chain that hung from the temples of her smart-glasses, an affectation given she was a Minkan, and added, "The matter of changing the designee from KFY to Ketsuri Zaibatsu has already been made by SAMIC."
 
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Andrew

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Katsuko's presence was volumetric, she had been monitoring the discussions as was protocol when the Premier was absent from the Senate Chamber itself. It appeared again that the self-serving liberal Senator from Virginia had proposed something that merely sought to re-invent the wheel and prop his clan's corporation up on a pedestal where its products and practices had been circumvented by political intervention. It was darling really, the Premier's job though was not to press her opinions, but to merely provide direction, and in her absence, like during the weeks she had been on Jiyuu to attend to another high priority matter her Steward so kindly stepped in.

"I have trouble seeing what business it is of any in this body to choose what SAMIC does or does not do. SAMIC corporations are identified by Star Army's personnel and command structure, not the Senate. Either way, several Senators have expressed the desire to adjourn, perhaps it is time to readdress the language of this bill so that it is completely void of any mention of the Star Army or SAMIC should be considered, either way - the request for adjournment should be carried through, and is. Senators, please present this once more when the language is more universally satisfactory so that more than a select group of Senators can stand behind it." she directed. Why was this Senator so keen on overstepping his place? She figured it might be time for an audience with the Empress. It seemed the politics of the Senate body was repeating itself, perhaps even on a new path that would require more attention from the throne. Either way, she didn't voice that, her place was to merely conduct the orchestra.
 

Ethereal

Well-Known Member
Mochi wanted to put his face through his desk. The words he'd already said and reiterated this debate echoed in his mind, 'SAMIC is not under the control of the Senate and any legislation we pass constitutionally cannot influence the Star Army.' This always seemed to happen whenever he put a Proposal to the Senate. "Premier Katsuko - I think you may have missed the previous discussion. That point was already raised and answered. The essence is the question of WHY the Star Army should decide matters of civilian commerce. Especially as the current system prohibits government-restricted technologies being used for life-changing advancements that are not to do with warfare." Mochi couldn't help but pinch the bridge of his nose. "Honourable colleagues, as I seem to parrot every time as gather, despite what has passed this body in the past.. We constitutionally  cannot pass anything that affects the Star Army. I mention this every session. This bill does not mention the Star Army once and only addresses the SAMIC as a related topic that it's bridging from. Even if it did, it would be entirely unenforceable. I do not see why this continues to be a raised exception every session." In truth, while he was happy to see the Premier, what she had said ignored most of what he had already gone through the effort of explaining this session.. Sadly something that often happened every time he tried to bring a positive change like fixing a loophole that gatekeeps life changing innovations behind the stamp of a military that should have never been given that power over the civilian world. Letting his hand fall to the desk in defeat, Mochi shook his head. Perhaps it was time to throw the towel in for trying to affect positive change. Hell, soon enough he'd be forced to choose between being a Governor or a Senator anyways. "As always seems to be the case, there has been exceptions to the language used, and the same legally unsound objections about the SAOY. I'd like to ask those who objected to please send me SYNC messages with how you'd phrase it in your own words, much appreciated, as having me re-write this alone would no doubt end with the same objections again. I will now cede this Proposal so that it can be altered.." Mochi closed wearily, sitting back down at his desk with wordless dismay.

This isn't directed at any one person but OOC I'm really starting to get jaded about how often this comes up and ends up putting the brakes on every Proposal.

Anything that affects the SAOY does not have force even if it passes.

Maybe in the past it did when things were more loosy goosy.

I will never submit a Proposal that can affect the SAOY.

It jades me this happens every time.

Please ensure all understand this concept.
 
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Andrew

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Purpose​

  1. To merge and legitimise the Corporate Support Act of YE 23 and Star Army Military Industrial Complex.
  2. To update existing legislation relating to companies.
  3. To protect intellectual property and copyrights.
  4. To update the list of companies considered Major Corporations in the Empire.
  5. To build on the idea of the International Association of Advanced Companies for Inventor's Rights and Free Trade.

4) Clarification of the following understanding regarding the Military Industrial Complex:

The Star Army shall be permitted to select Corporations that shall be able to access restricted materials as a Major Corporation can. However, they shall only be allowed to do so for the creation of military products commissioned for the Star Army's own purposes.

Katsuko didn't reply to the Senator immediately, however, she merely highlighted the fourth section of the proposal as it appeared on their screens. She also highlighted the first purpose of the proposed bill. The fact was she had not ignored anything, she had listened to the debate over the bill. Katsuko was not one to just bow down and take it, "The Star Army does not make decisions for civilian corporations, Senator. Major Corporations, identified in SAMIC are given access to restricted technology to provide for the Star Army, those who are not identified as such are not given access to it," she knew what Major Corporation meant, she knew what SAMIC was and the role it played. Its mention in the proposed bill was not necessary and yet there it was and not as a reference.

"Now in the words of your bill, I will permit, adjournment on this. Perhaps one of the other honorable Senators will present an alternative and reworded proposal to give this life again as they have other bills in recent discussions. You see Senator this is how this body works, we propose bills, we propose amendments to make those bills more universal to the desires of constituents, there is a vote and I direct the conversation, thank you." she said in conclusion.
 
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Ethereal

Well-Known Member
Mochi was also not one to stand down when it appeared to him that anyone was simply ignoring his points. By responding after he had suggested closing the matter, Mochi now had the ability to answer. Technically speaking, the Premier was there for points of order, not to speak on the bill itself like she had. "Premier,  that is the issue, one which you seem not to be understanding." It was incendiary language, but he wasn't going to take it lying down when Katsuko was trying to show him as a fool.

"That section of the bill is descriptive, not proscriptive. It clearly states it is clarifying on an issue. The Star Army never designates Major Corporations for anything other than military technology. It promises as such in its own regulations."

"What I have been trying to get across is that this leaves a huge loophole for the civilian companies under our collective purview. Some companies are trusted. Yamatai based. Have been around for a long time. Make life-changing products. Benefit trillions of people every day."

"However, some of those companies have never made a weapon. And by that decision, can never become Major Corporations currently because the SAOY would never let them."

"This means that healthcare companies for example, which could be using those technologies that are government-restricted technologies to make leaps and bounds to save lives are actively prevented from doing so."

"We are in dereliction of our duty if we are indirectly allowing the SAOY to prevent access of these materials to companies that by all rights should be able to use them for great advances in science and technology within the civilian world."

"The SAOY is not and should not be the regulator of civilian industry. Yet it is. By negligence of this body in not reserving its own power to designate Major Corporations as well as the Star Army, the Star Army is the de facto regulator of civilian commerce. Premier. That is what I am trying to get across. I am not trying to influence the SAOY and that is not legally possible in the first place. I take offense at your insinuation that I am."

Mochi stared at Katsuko like she had two heads. "If I am still not making myself abundantly clear, please let me know, Premier, so that I can clarify it further for you."
 

Andrew

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"This session is adjourned. Please submit amendment proposals as previously discussed," Katsuko ended the session as she had previously stated, if he had something to say he could argue it during the amendment proposal proceedings when some of the other Senators had a chance to digest it and make their amendment proposals, even he could submit one himself, either way, the session was over and Katsuko cut the communications to the Senate Chamber, to verify that official closing.
 
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