• 📅 January 2022 is YE 43.7 in the RP.

Senate: VOTING Senate Proposal #116 - Consciousness Ownership Act

Ethereal

Well-Known Member
RP Date
5月 YE 43
RP Location
Senate Dome, Imperial Palace
The vast expanse of the Imperial Palace seemed to be invigorated with new life, following the recent government reshuffle after the new election. Fresh faces paced its corridors with bright eyes and brighter minds.

Behind his podium, Senator Iemochi, a rather notorious figure of late, was stood. His volumetric hologram was very life-like, projecting from a small disk that lay close to the ground.

Clad in his Star Army uniform, the blonde Elysian placed his hands on either side of the desk, leaning forwards. He seemed to be glancing between them, as if looking at notes which weren't there - probably physically wherever he was right now.

Patiently, Mochi gazed towards the stand where their new Imperial Premier would preside over the proceedings. It looked like several other Senators were filing in, taking their spots while they waited on the Premier to formally open this session.

The Elysian had already sent out his new Proposal to all of them as well as the Premier. He'd asked for a debate and vote to be scheduled, which seemed to have landed on today.

It would be interesting to see what reception and discussion would be on this topic, but Mochi had prepared a good opening statement that he'd love to kick off whenever everything was ready.

- The Proposal -

@Legix
@Soban
@Wes
@Fred
@SageShooter
@Andrew
@Nashoba
@Doshii Jun
(Tagged in the order they appear on the Senate wiki page)
 

Wes

Founder & Admin
Staff Member
🌸 FM of Yamatai
🎖️ Game Master
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"I think we should make some adjustments," Hanako said. "It should be explicitly stated that
  1. It is legal for the Star Army and government services to require their members to obtain permission prior to making copies of themselves,
  2. members of the Star Army of Yamatai who are duplicated are subject to the same terms of military service as the original, and these obligations can only be released at the discretion of the Star Army of Yamatai.
  3. persons leaving the military are subject to memory revision, to the minimum necessary extent needed for Imperial Security, by the Star Army, in order to protect against the dissemination of military secrets such as access codes and the location of clandestine forces or facilities."
"I think consent is the most important thing here, and that if a person consents, they should be free to do whatever they want their the backups of their mind, within reason. What about a scenario where a person owes a corporation a thousand KS and he clones himself ten times. Is the debt distributed among the copies? Is there a limit on the number of clones a person can make or any restriction that stops clones from making more clones until there are nations of a certain person? How would this law interact with my Memory Backup Protection Act?"
 

Ethereal

Well-Known Member
Senator Iemochi looked over to Hanako, seeming a little startled. He had expected to wait until the Premier was here to open the business of the day formally.

However, he'd never actually been in this chamber with a sitting Premier, unlike Hanako. Mochi decided it was better to follow her lead on this one, launching into a measured response after a unsure delay.

"Well- If we're starting- Precedent would say new law overrides older law in relation to your old act, Senator Hanako. How would you like them to interact together?" Mochi offered, seeming open to discuss that topic and take her thoughts into consideration.

"In relation to clone armies - the question would be how that person would provide actual physical bodies for all those STs. They would need the resources to build a robot army first, to house all the STs."

"Under current law, they could make a clone army right now - just of biological clones as they are not legislated for at all to my knowledge. I've essentially done that myself to some extent, as its how Neo-Caelisolians are made more or less."

The Senator moved on, his multi-colour wings bobbing up and down a little.

"In terms of debt.. There's already a clause that criminal punishments can't be passed on to clones, so I can extend that to private debt quite easily, as well as any other bad-yet-legal thing you'd like me to include. Luckily, the law will already give the government final say on a lot of things such as that."

Mochi tapped his chin once or twice as he thought over Hanako's major point.

"As for your thoughts on the Star Army, that's something we need to tread carefully on as I'm sure you know. Laws that include the Star Army have no force, as we sadly all know. Most things would be down to their own policies. Technically even civilian law doesn't apply to them, except the Constitution."

They all knew this already, but it was worth reiterating for those who were new or in the viewing gallery.

"I'm not sure why people should need the government or military to approve of them before being able to protect themselves with a backup? It feels like one bad officer or official could wind up with a lot of power to coerce people that way. If a Governor wanted to press their citizens to do something, they could withold their backups, for example."

It was a bit extreme, but by its strictest definition, corruption is wrongfully using your position for your own benefit. There were more than a handful of psychopathic people out there who would straddle such a line if given that level of control over peoples' deaths.

"I'm also unsure as to why a clone would be conscripted while the original person is still alive. I've added some clarity to the last few points of the Proposal to make this clearer, but we don't want forced conscription - a one for one replacement should keep the Star Army at readiness? Not that it's really our place to make such calls."

A short silence followed, the Senator shifting uncomfortably, already feeling the invisible Taishos staring daggers at them all from across the stars at even mentioning the Star Army here.

"In regards to Imperial Security, perhaps it would be simpler to include a subsection saying that anyone within a place where military law applies may be subject to memory revision for purposes of confidentiality? That would also kill the birds of espionage and such too. Although, really, the Star Army can do whatever they want regarding that as far as I know."

The Iemochi looked to the other Senators who had kept quiet for now, clearly looking to see what they might say. It was very important to get multiple points of view and ideas, as an intercourse between two people was less preferable than a group discussion.
 
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Soban

🌟 Site Supporter
Convention Veteran
Anslen looked annoyed that Iemochi had admitted that they had little defacto power over the army. It was a political reality that frustrated him. Anslen considered the bill, "The purpose of this bill is to replace restrictions on cloning. Does that include the Cloned Humans Ban Act? Do you think that the ban on cloning has effected the development and improvements on Nekovalkyrja? There are reports of advancements we haven't incorporated at this time. It seems to me that the resources to make a clone army, or constituency wouldn't be very hard to acquire. I think a maximum legal limit of one clone per year could be reasonable. That is roughly a gestation timeframe over the various species of the empire. Whenever we create a new Nekovalkyrja, we do have forced conscription."

The Separa'Shan continued, "While an individual does get a free backup from the Empire, I don't feel we should in any way prohibit additional backups. While we may require that they are registered, I don't think we should disallow their creation by any individual. The fundamental right here is that individuals have to care for their own safety. While we do a lot for our citizens, we provide a minimum. If an individual wants more protection than we provide, I'm not clear on why we should prevent them from acquiring it."

His tail flicked, "There is of course more, but I think these points will suffice for now."
 

Ethereal

Well-Known Member
Mochi was glad to hear from the Separa'Shan, who always had something useful to input as far as the Elysian had experienced. They aligned on many matters politically, or rather Mochi guessed they would.

"Well pointed out, Senator Anslen. Truth be told, I hadn't given much notice to that particular bill, for the same reasons as I noted before regarding the Star Army and this chamber."

However, from what Mochi had experienced himself, the Star Army did indeed not practice human cloning, but that was likely more by choice than a piece of paper that they were immune to anyway. They really could do whatever they have wanted - the word stratocracy came to his mind. It was odd to Mochi in the first place that the ban only specified humans and no other race..

"In my opinion as a inventor and cloner of sorts, you're right, Senator. Competition and diversity breeds innovation - there is no competition for alternatives to Nekos, the Star Army yet makes more and more."

That had never made much sense to Mochi - that while there were several (admittedly few) companies that supplied the Star Army, they relied on only one to innovate their actual troops. Monopolies tended to dissuade from advancements as there was no competition to compete with, like Anslen had implied.

"However I'm not advocating here myself for clone armies or anything related to military readiness - the proposal makes such clones have the same rights as other citizens and be indistinguishable from them legally. Any conscription or such would apply to them the same as any other member of their original species. Personally, I have mixed feelings on conscription in the first place, especially for periods longer than a couple of years."

Being born into a extended contract against your will was a military reality in the Star Army, but Mochi had never seen an unhappy Neko. Still, fundamentally he was a fan of freedom and choice, which was a pillar of Yamataian culture in his view.

Seinosuke nodded to his peer at the mention of a cloning limit. "I think that's a very wise and elegant solution, Senator. That would nip the issue of armies in the bud and cut closer to the spirit of this law. I'll add such a limitation in, with the caveat that you can replace yourself once you die with a single ST to avoid confusion there, and this can be done as many times a year as you are 'killed'."

Anslen made another good point. "I agree there should be no real limits on additional backups, which I hope is reflected here in the proposal. I have written limitations on giving these to third parties and things, however. Personally, I have a feeling that might be a step too far - the potential for bad intent there is quite high. However, I'd love to hear other views on that."

Mochi smiled once he was finished, "Thank you Senator, it's always a pleasure to hear your input."
 
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SageShooter

🎨 Media Gallery
The newest, and by far most out of place Senator had been there early. Ria felt so strange as she sat in the same chamber with powerful people and looked around at the others as they spoke. She had read over the proposal and several thoughts had begun to pop into her head, most of which she had opted to keep to herself at first as she didn't want to rock the boat so to say, until others began to pipe in with their own ideas and suggestions. Dressed in her old Kikyo Pies company uniform as she hadn't had time to actually get a new outfit and she didn't think a Star Army uniform would be kosher in the chambers, at least until she saw the Senator who had proposed the bill, she felt like a sore thumb in the crowd.

But eventually as the others began and finished, she decided to chip in, even in her first time within the chambers.

"I do see a concern with this proposal... How limited or monitored is the actual cloning? Is there a set limit per year? What is to stop a person from creating a organization or political party with this? I know there is a restriction within the first year... But after that first year somebody creates forty clones of themselves, then those forty clones go and create another forty clones a year later, and so on and so forth... What's to say within ten or twelve years we don't have planets inhabited by clones derived from a single person?"

She looked around for a moment to gauge the state of the others, to see how they felt about her words before she continued.

"What is to stop someone from essentially creating a new USO nation? A single civilian with prior military training, or even a currently enlisted member doing this every time they go back home for leave. They build up a force, create a mercenary company, and go take over smaller or less populated planets where the inhabitants don't have a particularly strong military presence, outside of Yamatai's allies and more or less installing themselves in as a dictator over the planet."
 

Ethereal

Well-Known Member
Seinosuke blinked a few times at the new entrant to the discussion. Was it a pizza girl who got lost? No, there was something he remembered reading. One of the new Senators used to work there. There must be some reason as to why they were dressed that way, but it wasn't immediately obvious to Mochi.

"Ah, Senator. I think we've settled on a one-per-year cloning basis, but no cloning in the first year after 'birth'. If someone cloned themselves and somehow convinced all their subsequent clones to do the same as soon as possible - without editing - there'd be 512 people after 10 years."

"Just to remind people that Nekos and Minkans can currently reproduce at a rate of one or more every three months. Nekos are fully matured in a matter of days or weeks. You'd have far more than this number under current law from a single Neko if they wished. Double a year pales in comparison."

Mochi reiterated that point, just to make it crystal clear. It was already possible and legal for Nekos and Minkans to multiply far faster than he was proposing. Nekos could even transfer all their collective experience to their offspring, including combat experience.

"The main limitation for trying to raise any army is monetary capital. There's countless ex-military Nekos and other species in the Kikyo sector. If someone wanted to take over a planet, it'd be far easier to pay for 100,000 mercenaries and have them available instantly. Waiting 10 years and still having to pay for bodies, arms and upkeep is not realistic."

The Elysian's wings dipped up and down slowly. "That's one of the reasons that corporations are very closely watched by many people. They actually have the means to become a state at any time, if they really wish. Hire a mercenary army and go to town. It's probably easier to control employees than copies of yourself as well - especially if you're a psychopathic megalomaniac like such serial and malicious cloners would have to be."

Mochi looked at the other Senators once he finished. "I hope that clarifies things, but if there's any more questions or concerns, I'm happy to elaborate."
 

Yuuki

🌟 Site Supporter
Takagawa Hitomi was not pleased. She'd truly internalized, long ago, everything she had run for office on, and was as much a stickler for procedure and tradition and ceremony as her immaculate, tight bun, lacking even a single hair out of place, implied she was. Senator Takagawa was the Law and Order Senator from Party Planet, an almost comical juxtaposition of the woman's character with the system she represented. She did not appreciate deviation from procedure, such as debate beginning as soon as Senators had begun to read the paper in front of them, without the Premier there. The narrow-eyed frown she wore didn't hide that she felt exactly how her reputation implied she would feel about it. Despite her visible annoyance displayed in the calming breaths she occasionally took, however, the freshman senator read over the bill before her as calmly as she could.

Eventually, however, during a lull in the conversation, Hitomi spoke up, "Although there are portions of this proposed legislation I agree with wholeheartedly, and others less so, I must object to the scope and breadth of this bill. In its current state I don't think it is suitable to pass as is, irrespective of the of the merits or their lack in its individual points. The legal conflation of cloning shells, that is, bodies, with digital mind backups is perilous, not to mention contrary to established science of digital mind transfers. This bill should be at least two other, separate bills."

She folded her hands on the desk before her after taking a single sip from her Warm and Sweet to-go cup. "I will defer proposing amendments or disposition until we have officially opened the session."
 
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