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Series 7 Multi-role frigate.
- Thread starter Zack
- Start date
- Status
sada sakue
Inactive Member
Oh, well. I guess that when I took my classes this technique wasn't well known around here.
Feel free to ignore my previous post =)
Feel free to ignore my previous post =)
Vesper
Inactive Member
Several issues, which I have, most unfourtunatly, not had the time to write up over the last few days.
The most obvious is, over course, the ultrasound system that you insist on keeping here. If you really want this ship approved, you should just drop the damn thing.
M'kay, the thing is that the bone (as stated in the links you guys have provided) of the skull absorbs energy of the ultrasound and would simply block a signal of too low a amplitude. Since this was noted, and has been, a concern and problem with current ultrasound energies and amplitudes, it means that the amplitudes needed to "saftley" probe proteins on the picoscale would be below the lower limit by many magnitudes. Further, since the power of a sound wave increases by the square of the frequency (according to the equation P=ξ^2*f^2*c*ρ/4π^2; which would be on the order of 1e15-1e18 fold increase in power) the total energy delivered will be increased massively as the frequency rises to the needed levels (and since the amplitude must stop decreasing at a much, much smaller number than the frequency).
Since this system is intended to operate as a M-M interface it must be introducing and gathering information and data to and from the brain ata extremely high frequency (as in ops/second, not the sounds frequency) so its off-time will be very small, and no where near what would be needed to maintain safe operation power levels.
=Creation engine:
I do not see the need for this device. It does much of what the nodal system already does, and throws in a few more precedents just for the heck of it. But beyond that, why would you want to centralize this system so? It makes it so that the entire ship can be utterly devastated by a single good shot with a starship-grade neutron beam.
=Stealth:
You can't do that Uso, heat is the most useless form of energy, it is entropy. You can not eliminate it or change it wholly into usable work, there will always be waste energy, and given the amount of energy involved with a starship and incident radiation, this will be quite large. (and Jatsu, hyperspace sensors exist, so just venting heat there won't get you out of trouble with the stealth)
Yet again you use a double standard. You love to use the justification that, since the SARPP has a much higher level of technology than now it should have incredibly better sensors, systems, etc and that makes whatever you are pushing A OK. If I apply that here, even if you can reduce the waste heat to a tiny, tiny fraction of a percent of the ships total energy use it should glow like a small star on any SARP level sensor system, never mind if they are using multiple sensors to scan space.
=Heisenberg Compensator:
This thing needs to go; there is not a chance hell I am going to let this go cannon or let you sneak it in and set another tech precedent. It is entirely wrong on every level.
=Weapons:
Remove that "OMGâ€
The most obvious is, over course, the ultrasound system that you insist on keeping here. If you really want this ship approved, you should just drop the damn thing.
M'kay, the thing is that the bone (as stated in the links you guys have provided) of the skull absorbs energy of the ultrasound and would simply block a signal of too low a amplitude. Since this was noted, and has been, a concern and problem with current ultrasound energies and amplitudes, it means that the amplitudes needed to "saftley" probe proteins on the picoscale would be below the lower limit by many magnitudes. Further, since the power of a sound wave increases by the square of the frequency (according to the equation P=ξ^2*f^2*c*ρ/4π^2; which would be on the order of 1e15-1e18 fold increase in power) the total energy delivered will be increased massively as the frequency rises to the needed levels (and since the amplitude must stop decreasing at a much, much smaller number than the frequency).
Since this system is intended to operate as a M-M interface it must be introducing and gathering information and data to and from the brain ata extremely high frequency (as in ops/second, not the sounds frequency) so its off-time will be very small, and no where near what would be needed to maintain safe operation power levels.
=Creation engine:
I do not see the need for this device. It does much of what the nodal system already does, and throws in a few more precedents just for the heck of it. But beyond that, why would you want to centralize this system so? It makes it so that the entire ship can be utterly devastated by a single good shot with a starship-grade neutron beam.
=Stealth:
You can't do that Uso, heat is the most useless form of energy, it is entropy. You can not eliminate it or change it wholly into usable work, there will always be waste energy, and given the amount of energy involved with a starship and incident radiation, this will be quite large. (and Jatsu, hyperspace sensors exist, so just venting heat there won't get you out of trouble with the stealth)
Yet again you use a double standard. You love to use the justification that, since the SARPP has a much higher level of technology than now it should have incredibly better sensors, systems, etc and that makes whatever you are pushing A OK. If I apply that here, even if you can reduce the waste heat to a tiny, tiny fraction of a percent of the ships total energy use it should glow like a small star on any SARP level sensor system, never mind if they are using multiple sensors to scan space.
=Heisenberg Compensator:
This thing needs to go; there is not a chance hell I am going to let this go cannon or let you sneak it in and set another tech precedent. It is entirely wrong on every level.
=Weapons:
Remove that "OMGâ€
Zack
Inactive Member
Feasible
Ultrasound:
I think the simplest way of dealing with this would be to limit the system to only sending data. There is more than enough material provided in this thread to suggest that much is easily within suspension of disbelief.
Creation engine:
This isn't a star army ship, a centralized system could require less energy to run and could produce larger items faster and more efficiently. I've heard your radiation kills all Nan machines theory in other threads and you have to keep in mind that if enough radiation passed through the shields to cook something of that size all the way through having the system knocked out isn't the ship's biggest problem. In the worst case scenario a little more than typical wear and tear would have to be expected... but not by much.
Stealth:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealth_technology
So clearly, cooling systems can't exist and airplane manufacturers are violating Vesper‘s laws of physic... someone better go tell them that. Not only is the stealth coating on the ship simply a modification of a present day system but in a way so are the cooling systems of the ship. Not only is it possible to cool something to the temperatures needed for stealth but it can even be achieved (over a long period of time) with modern day technology. More importantly once the hull temperature is below a certain level it would be indistinguishable from background radiation by even the best sensor or computer system.
=Heisenberg Compensator:
Removed
Weapons:
There is no reason to remove a reference to an already understood concept. The rest of your comment doesn't even deal with the weapons though a high mass round sans a really good penitrator design would have its mass spread out enough that the yarvex would be able to generaly absorb the blow and be unharmed though the hull below it would be shattered. The leading edge of a Xaser also wouldn't be able to provide enough power to snap a string of yarvex but again thats off topic.
Paradox:
Warms systems have already shown that this is within the relm of suspention of disbelief. I also haven't seen any proof against the concept from your end.
(I was pro-retroactive removal btw)
Ultrasound:
I think the simplest way of dealing with this would be to limit the system to only sending data. There is more than enough material provided in this thread to suggest that much is easily within suspension of disbelief.
Creation engine:
This isn't a star army ship, a centralized system could require less energy to run and could produce larger items faster and more efficiently. I've heard your radiation kills all Nan machines theory in other threads and you have to keep in mind that if enough radiation passed through the shields to cook something of that size all the way through having the system knocked out isn't the ship's biggest problem. In the worst case scenario a little more than typical wear and tear would have to be expected... but not by much.
Stealth:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealth_technology
So clearly, cooling systems can't exist and airplane manufacturers are violating Vesper‘s laws of physic... someone better go tell them that. Not only is the stealth coating on the ship simply a modification of a present day system but in a way so are the cooling systems of the ship. Not only is it possible to cool something to the temperatures needed for stealth but it can even be achieved (over a long period of time) with modern day technology. More importantly once the hull temperature is below a certain level it would be indistinguishable from background radiation by even the best sensor or computer system.
=Heisenberg Compensator:
Removed
Weapons:
There is no reason to remove a reference to an already understood concept. The rest of your comment doesn't even deal with the weapons though a high mass round sans a really good penitrator design would have its mass spread out enough that the yarvex would be able to generaly absorb the blow and be unharmed though the hull below it would be shattered. The leading edge of a Xaser also wouldn't be able to provide enough power to snap a string of yarvex but again thats off topic.
Paradox:
Warms systems have already shown that this is within the relm of suspention of disbelief. I also haven't seen any proof against the concept from your end.
(I was pro-retroactive removal btw)
Cora
Inactive Member
Uso, for heat to NOT regester, the ship, and everything in it MUST be the same temprature as the space around it. near zero degrees Kelven.
NOTHING CAN SURVIVE at that temprature.
Also, that link is junk. It backs you up as much as waving you hands and saying "I'm a Magician!"
God man, you are horrible at backing up your crap. All you spout is Suspention of Disbelif, and this is Fiction. GUESS WHAT? Even those need a level of believability for it to work! NONE of what you're saying is even making that!!
NOTHING CAN SURVIVE at that temprature.
Also, that link is junk. It backs you up as much as waving you hands and saying "I'm a Magician!"
God man, you are horrible at backing up your crap. All you spout is Suspention of Disbelif, and this is Fiction. GUESS WHAT? Even those need a level of believability for it to work! NONE of what you're saying is even making that!!
Karma Mechanic
Inactive Member
Does anyone here actually read and understand, or at least attempt to understand, or investigate whats in Vesper's posts?
If you do the reading behind Vesper's posts you will come to find out that they are generally correct.
If you want to get a ship approved espicially for an established canon group, you should use tech thats already canon. Suspention of disbelif tech is farthest from what we need in this RP.
Additionaly, cheers to Vesper for continually trying to bring some sence of order, balence, real physics, logic, and dare I say reality to this RP.
------------
Doc I started bashing three rocks together and got a more powerful super computer than you! Bwahahaha!!!
=P
[/humour]
If you do the reading behind Vesper's posts you will come to find out that they are generally correct.
If you want to get a ship approved espicially for an established canon group, you should use tech thats already canon. Suspention of disbelif tech is farthest from what we need in this RP.
Additionaly, cheers to Vesper for continually trying to bring some sence of order, balence, real physics, logic, and dare I say reality to this RP.
------------
DocTomoe said:
Doc I started bashing three rocks together and got a more powerful super computer than you! Bwahahaha!!!
=P
[/humour]
Fred
Retired Staff
Essentially, most of the thing Uso Tasuki wants his ship to do is permissible by this setting's standard.
- Computer that can interface with a sentient mind, check.
- Stealth systems, check.
- A centralized power source? Well, I suppose aether generators come close enough. Check.
*snaps fingers* The real controversy being made here is the actual means to that end. Personally, if talking about technobabble creates disputes that goes to the point of bad mouthing people, it simple raises much unneeded drama - if it were just of me, I'd just wing it since the basis goal to be met, functionality, would be reached anyways... but that wouldn't get past some people here.
Yes, I'll admit... I read over Vesper's post - and I frickin' don't understand them. Maybe that's one of the reasons I'm not crying out for blood too, but meh.
Uso, if your vessel is to be made following certain standards, it also means those standards would be likely to follow precedents... such as already used technology. Your power systems and stealth systems can be covered by a continuum distortion drive. Furthermore, your ship-to-crew's mind interface is something that's already possible, using Nepleslian cybernetics and the PANTHEON network.
My recommendation is this : by this point, the resistance to your 'innovations' has been adamant and has gone a bit overboard in certain cases. I would recommend taking the mature decision and compromising. After all, it's the ship itself that's important... not a handful of knick knacks that might or might not perform the same function.
Furthermore, I'd appreciate if people left off arguing over this point and just leave this to whoever is in charge of this section. 3 pages of bickering is enough.
- Computer that can interface with a sentient mind, check.
- Stealth systems, check.
- A centralized power source? Well, I suppose aether generators come close enough. Check.
*snaps fingers* The real controversy being made here is the actual means to that end. Personally, if talking about technobabble creates disputes that goes to the point of bad mouthing people, it simple raises much unneeded drama - if it were just of me, I'd just wing it since the basis goal to be met, functionality, would be reached anyways... but that wouldn't get past some people here.
Yes, I'll admit... I read over Vesper's post - and I frickin' don't understand them. Maybe that's one of the reasons I'm not crying out for blood too, but meh.
Uso, if your vessel is to be made following certain standards, it also means those standards would be likely to follow precedents... such as already used technology. Your power systems and stealth systems can be covered by a continuum distortion drive. Furthermore, your ship-to-crew's mind interface is something that's already possible, using Nepleslian cybernetics and the PANTHEON network.
My recommendation is this : by this point, the resistance to your 'innovations' has been adamant and has gone a bit overboard in certain cases. I would recommend taking the mature decision and compromising. After all, it's the ship itself that's important... not a handful of knick knacks that might or might not perform the same function.
Furthermore, I'd appreciate if people left off arguing over this point and just leave this to whoever is in charge of this section. 3 pages of bickering is enough.
Zakalwe
Inactive Member
QIS ships can't use PANTHEON. Neither can Nepleslian ones actually.
And I'm not entierly certain they have access to CDD technology.
But one of the things that designers of ship try to come up with is an alternative way of doing things. It's not fun just to say "This works." It far more enjoyable to say, "And so does this, but in a different way."
And I'm not entierly certain they have access to CDD technology.
But one of the things that designers of ship try to come up with is an alternative way of doing things. It's not fun just to say "This works." It far more enjoyable to say, "And so does this, but in a different way."
Derran Tyler
Inactive Member
Exactly, and it seems as if Uso here continually violates Occam's Razor by always trying to re-invent the wheel.
That's bullshit and you know it. Let's read your description -
Where does this cooling system take the heat? It has to go somewhere, and with the level of sensors in this setting, any thermographic sensor worth its salt is going to be able to pick you up.
Zack
Inactive Member
Once again Cora is just flaming.
As for those of you who can't read, this isn't a Yamatai Star Army ship.
Unless of course your ship was sunward, or even planetward of the ship trying to pick you up. The heat is taken to a supercooled mass in the bottomish center of the ship. I didn't think I would need to go that far with my discriptions.
More importantly the stealth system works, it violates no laws of anything. Ya'll are just nit-picking about effectiveness.
The specific like about changing radar into heat that I thought people were smart enough to find on their own.
As for those of you who can't read, this isn't a Yamatai Star Army ship.
Unless of course your ship was sunward, or even planetward of the ship trying to pick you up. The heat is taken to a supercooled mass in the bottomish center of the ship. I didn't think I would need to go that far with my discriptions.
More importantly the stealth system works, it violates no laws of anything. Ya'll are just nit-picking about effectiveness.
The specific like about changing radar into heat that I thought people were smart enough to find on their own.
Derran Tyler
Inactive Member
That shit is laughable. You're not hiding the heat at all, then. Matter of factly, it makes it even easier to find you, because it requires energy in order to 'supercool' something and all you're doing is creating a huge heat sink for thermographic sensors to home in on. It doesn't matter if you're near a celestial body, because the level of sensitivity of the sensors available is by far more effective than any level of stealth you could achieve with this system.
So yeah, your stealth system works and violates no laws, it just doesn't work very well. *thumbs up*
Karma Mechanic
Inactive Member
Uso Tasuki said:
There's a small problem with the supercooled mass concept, even if you were to cool what would basicly be an gigantic heatsink at one spot, then travel to another place. The amount of heat (energy) something can absorb is not that great before its tempurture rises. Even if you cool something to below the ambient tempurture of the interstellar medium, you wouldn't be able to make it much cooler.
What this means is the supercooled mass idea doesn't quite work the way you put it forth. Its like putting an ice cube( 0' C) in a refigerator thats set at 1.5' C to try to cool a side of beef. (except that your side of beef continually generates excess heat)
Why not use endothermic scalar inferometry to displace heat like KFY ships do?
Karma Mechanic
Inactive Member
I happened to be reading something in your original post that didn't seem right... but this time for the completely opposite reason.
In the description of the escape pods, it says that it comes with water purification/sterilization tablets. That approach to water purification isn't only extremely outdated in a futuristic world, but is fairly outdated in real life as well.
I suggest that you replace them with a small water filtering device.
Basically something that starts off with a particulate filter or two then goes through a few alternating carbon filter layers and a reverse osmosis membrane.
In the description of the escape pods, it says that it comes with water purification/sterilization tablets. That approach to water purification isn't only extremely outdated in a futuristic world, but is fairly outdated in real life as well.
I suggest that you replace them with a small water filtering device.
Basically something that starts off with a particulate filter or two then goes through a few alternating carbon filter layers and a reverse osmosis membrane.
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