• If you were supposed to get an email from the forum but didn't (e.g. to verify your account for registration), email Wes at [email protected] or talk to me on Discord for help. Sometimes the server hits our limit of emails we can send per hour.
  • Get in our Discord chat! Discord.gg/stararmy
  • 📅 February and March 2024 are YE 46.2 in the RP.

Setting Submissions Process

Status
Not open for further replies.
I've seen that when people get frustrated with the site, they're often frustrated because of the Setting Submissions process. I'm really interested in making this part of the site a more positive experience for creative SARPers who have graciously put their time and effort into expansion articles to Star Army's setting and lore.

So I've put together a plan to fix things:

Step 1: We're going to completely rewrite the rules for submission reviewers, with clear, thorough guides on how we expect them to conduct themselves. A key part of this will be positivity.

Step 2: Search for more active and positive moderators and aggressively streamline the overall process to make it faster with less frustrating wait times. Create forms for the submissions so articles and posts always have everything they need to succeed. You've already seen the start of this now that the forum asks for submission URLs and WIP URLs along with the post.

Step 3: Opening submission of new factions again - a date will be set soon. This is a very requested feature.

If you have specific suggestions I want to hear them.

EXAMPLE: Reviewers always should fix typos instead of posting about them in the thread.
 
My only suggestion is that - in order to promote setting diversity and avoid detracting from pre-existing factions - new factions must:
  • Be submitted with a new species.
  • Not thematically overlap with a pre-existing faction.
  • Not be a spontaneously-rediscovered colony of humans.
Apologies for the brevity of this post - have a doctor appointment in twenty minutes. >.<

Edit: I say this because, well, in my opinion another Colonial "totally not a copy of Nepleslia" Pact is the last thing this setting needs - and because there are already three human factions in Star Army.
 
Last edited:
I agree with Kyle, I have not seen the "veryrequested" part anywhere and more factions will mean spreading players thinner.

on the other hand though, if a new faction could provide a VERY different set of RP to any existing ones that could work out better as it seems like that may be what causes people wanting to make new ones in the first place, although between the ones we have I don't see what sort of RP is being denied by cultural or technological issues, they have a fairly wide mix of things to do.

thinking over it, the desire for new factions may be slightly misplaced and rather, people want more diverse plots, different things to do than just be a soldier or criminal which is part of what i've tried to avoid in making my plots, giving them a unique theme to go though with.

Step 2: Search for more active and positive moderators
so does this mean we are getting even more NTSE mods? i dont have an issue with that but it seems like since the recent addition we have a fair few again already and personally I haven't had any issues with speed of submissions that wasn't unreasonable or unexplained.

I guess my suggestion to add to the pile would be something I know has been brought up a few times, updating and/or improving the article templates. I personally have seen people being asked to remove forced line breaks which (if its the \\ I'm thinking of) are actually included in some templates which would probably frustrate me if i was asked in submission even though i was only following template. I would be willing to help update the articles and even make some new ones to try and encompass the stuff not listed or covered in the other ones like equipment pieces and other general items.

slightly related by association, there is a lot of pages that need updating >.<
 
I agree with Kyle, I have not seen the "veryrequested" part anywhere and more factions will mean spreading players thinner.
Some people simply won't stay without the hope of creating a new faction. @Dragon_God said they were leaving the site last night because they basically gave up hope for submitting the faction they'd been working on. I don't want people to lose hope and feel sad because they can't contribute. It's also super important that we appreciate people's efforts making stuff for our site. I mean, we're getting ideas and content for free. None of us gets paid to make SARP stuff except for commission artists, so when people are eager to add to the RP, we should be grateful instead of just poking it full of holes then shutting it down. My philosophy remains the same: SARPers should build each other up, not tear each other down. That means we need to seriously rethink the way we do reviews here because it's like the #1 complaint area players have with our site.
 
I think that having more factions would be awesome, but I also echo some of the concerns of other posters about diversity. Factions need to be meaningfully different. I think that opening up limited new factions would be good. Although I might say that they need to have a active RP thread to become a faction.
 
I've had Agartha saved up for two years since I actually concieved and wrote the articles in question, the time since then was spent waiting for the embargo to be lifted. It's quite different from most other factions, given their technology is at the medieval/renaissance level and religion is a huge thing there. Also, constant civil war as far back as anyone can remember, strange geography and at least 4 arcs I have planned in my head. It's not a clone or rip of any others factions I can point at.

That being said, as much as I thought Agartha had to be a faction in its own right, most faction ideas can really be sub-factions. I'd actually advocate for a system that has faction ideas be subfactions until a point where they prove themselves to be providing notable RP opportunities and article numbers compared to their parents. It sounds strange, but I'm going to see how that works for me with Agartha. (I mean it actually makes sense anyways for weaker and smaller factions to be subjugated even just by location by a stronger faction, until they grow to be recognised - that's how real life nations work.)
 
I agree with many other people about making new factions. Eth's idea seems to be the best solution in my eyes.

Saying that, I feel like while new factions should be allowed, they still should go through an intense review process - Analyzing what is being done for the faction in and out of character. To me, the "ideal" faction on StarArmy Role Play would have at least two active plots, and a good amount of technology, cultural, etc. articles to actually give it the appearance of something, that feels more worth the attention it would get as a "proper" faction being recognized by people.

In my eyes, a faction on Star Army is supposed to be a group of people, ideas, technology, and culture that interacts with other factions in some way. To me, a multitude of individual tiny factions that effectively isolate themselves ICly and/or OOCly makes the setting of SARP seem less interconnected and more shallow.
 
Adding more factions is a bad idea, especially if they're mostly being created by brand new players unfamiliar with the site.

Instead of just changing the rules to appease them, maybe we should look at why we constantly get new players who just want to make a new faction/race and immediately leave if that's not immediately possible.
 
Factions, in practice, require a person to be capable of a certain set of skills and entrusted with a certain amount of authority on the site to function as an FM. That takes time and good conduct/action to earn, which can't be compromised without consequences. As such, the privilege of making a faction should be earned over time and considered on a case-by-case basis. It should not be codified based on complaints of people who haven't been around long enough to bank up that trust or play enough to know the setting's feel.

Some may read this and think "oh, so faction approval is a popularity contest", but it's more about making sure the person has the necessary elements of regular attendance, competence, conflict resolution, planning, wiki maintenance, and the other array of skills that a FM needs. Add to that the fact that the FM will likely also be a GM of a plot tied to that faction, and such considerations become even more essential.

If we get someone joining the site, but then quickly claiming that they'll leave unless their faction is allowed, then they lack the patience and motive necessary to succeed anyway.
 
UPDATES:
  • The setting submissions form has been reduced in size and has been moved entirely into the custom thread fields
    • Factions pre-listed with checkboxes so only actual playable factions are available as faction choices
    • Now includes a TOS agreement checkbox to make it obvious that submitters have agree/agreed to the TOS
    • No longer bothers people about whether art is needed (it's not)
    • No longer asks if a submission has been previously submitted
    • No longer asks about unapproved subarticles (articles should be treated separately and approved seperately, in other words there's no such thing as a "subarticle")
 
For clarity, lets say for a moment I'm submitting an group of articles that are interrelated and have links to each other. Ex. Ke-M2-W3900 Shoulder-Fired 20mm Gauss Cannon and 20x82mm Gauss Cannon Rounds (although it could be any number of related articles.) These should be considered and treated seprately. Does this mean that I should submit seprate threads for each or should I submit them as a group? If I should submit them as a group, what format should I use?
 
I'd prefer each to be submitted individually.

Mods will be permitted to approve things that are related by saying "Approved once (subsystem it needs) is approved" or something similar.
 
So I figured it would be time to speak on the whole faction thing, in particular because of my experience on the site within a few fields;
  • I have worked closely in Co-FM similar roles with various factions.
  • I am currently the FM of Nepleslia.
  • I have been given factions in the past to help update and preserve (which I've somewhat failed to do currently, but am working to change).
  • I work consistently with members looking to create or introduce factions to the setting.
Now, all that said; this is my view on the idea of new factions.

I do not think we need new, independently standing factions.

I do think SARP can support subfactions and additional assets to factions.

I have always been a very consistent person when it comes to what I want out of factions and their FMs; this is particularly why I think it's important to understand where all sides of it are coming from. At one point, I had wanted to make my own faction (the Brolt) and these days work to help others with bringing their factions to the site, even if in reduced major roles such as a support faction/subfaction (such as @Ethereal's Agartha). Both of these experiences, as well as the ones I've built from watching faction managers of new factions like USO and the I'ee have taught me a lot.

SARP cannot support new factions in its current state; however, it can remedy this through conjoined setting elements through subfactions.

This is something I find particularly grating and no doubt hard to grasp, but consider that I could increase Nepleslia's playerbase by simply having the Agarthans become a plot element/character option/player choice to Nepleslians. Not only do I help facilitate newer players who may want what the Agarthans might offer, but I also give them a connected bridge to Nepleslia. And this can be applied to any minor faction; my interests as of late have had me thinking of forming a conglomerate within Nepleslia of some of these older species I was given mantle over or simply own (Baroka and the Atsila, for example) to provide more options to Nepleslians but also facilitate the frontier-esque/alien-filled capacity Nepleslia CAN do but hasn't supported in years.

This stance may sound weird or hard to comprehend; for that I apologize. I simply wanted to share it here, where there seems to be a partial discussion brewing related to the idea of new factions. Do we need new factions? No. But we do need the capacity to facilitate new elements within IC-logic and reason. There are plenty of factions that could easily be revived with some new, fresh paint that doesn't necessarily get slapped onto the body; Abwehrans mingling with some new subfaction for example could revive the faction through that dynamic and the interest a subfaction generates.

TLDR: I spoke a bit about my view on new factions and hope it can give Wes and the site a good look into what may be one of the more diverse folks around when it comes to faction interaction. It wouldn't be SARP if we completely stifled things; but I do agree with folks like Reynolds that we need to have a better mantle on the quality bar and dedication of newer FMs regardless. Otherwise, we'll only make the problem worse again when we really can't afford it.
 
Last edited:
To build on what Legix said, players aren't leaving because they can't make new factions, they are leaving because of the NTSE mods.

In Dragon God's case, he was already working with me to do the sub-faction thing like Legix laid out with the intention of making it a full faction somewhere down the line. He was ok with waiting however long it took and we got some good RP started with it. The problem started when he started talking to NTSE mods who managed to turn his opinion of the site from "this is fun" to "I want to leave" in the span of a few minutes. This isn't isolated to DG either, as all of my new players also hate the NTSE, requiring me to go in / submit their stuff / and work around the mods to get things approved. Even the older players who have been on this site for years think:

Not Me said:
The NTSE is a pile of shit, though...

and

also not me said:
This is kind of why my attention has shifted towards [Other Site] lately.

People don't come onto this site to complain about the NTSE, they have a bad experience and then they just leave. Without fixing the mod-problem changes to the rules won't matter. As it is now we can already kinda work around the rules to get the results we want and improvements to the rules focused on that positiveity would be great to have, but the main problem needs to be tackled.
 
Okay @Zack, since you want to talk about that child I figure I'll add a bit of factual perspective.
1. He had no experience. None at all. He is neither a GM nor was his writing at a GM level. He needs experience which I'd happily help him find but he...

2. Has no intention of working with any of the existing factions or subfactions except for using the USO as a cheap excuse for existence because seriously, what government would finance a conquest and not take ownership? That's just stupid, sorry for pointing that out and trying to offer advice. It's only my job to protect the setting from elements that make no sense, a condition that wouldn't have applied to his idea if he'd have...

3. Been more willing to accept counsel and ensure his subfaction fit the setting, which it didn't, as exemplified by the fact that...

4. It had NO PLAYER BASE supporting it, probably due to the player's inflexibility and total refusal to listen to any criticism followed by him throwing a diva fit and leaving. Naturally this should indicate to most people that this player was not ready to be a FM. He hadn't even been a GM yet thus it should come as no surprise.

So Zack, don't bother bringing him back up.
 
I'm going to snip this because while I do not know the situation, I don't think it's entirely wrong; I just want to keep it specific.

The problem is not the NTSE, particularly in the case of new players and new factions.

The average new player has nothing to do with the NTSE at all; I've had plenty of players join and come to Nepleslia and my plots in the past who never touched the NTSE. Not because of bad reputation, but because there is no need. The average player DOES NOT HAVE PROBLEMS WITH THE NTSE.

The problem is very much what Rizzo outlined; there are new players who do want to create something. But the issue with this is that they're not being given realistic expectations and (in some cases) they go in acting entitled or unwilling to work with the setting's other participants. This problem is different than the ability to allow/support subfactions. More specifically:

We barred new factions because people would make them and then abandon them or not do any of the set-up necessary to ensure it survives.

This isn't the NTSE, someone specific, or anything like that; it's to do with players (new and old) who simply go...

"I want to make X but not put in the work that FMs are necessitated to do and hope it works out!"

This is the main problem and why I do agree with the points that Rizzo makes that are very common in new players wanting to add some new species. The new members who come into the setting wanting to create something unique and huge and complex RIGHT AWAY are not good; particularly combative ones.

This is why I've made it my goal to work with someone and make it very clear; I will support a subfaction creator as long as they heed my word and work to meet me halfway.

This is why I have good faith in something like the Agarthans; it's why I have good faith for a group like Elysia to earn its freedom as well. These subfactions are supported by people who know the commitment and have stuck around. This is the GOOD WAY to grow; it's also why (sorry Elysian fanboys and girls) I think Elysia breaking away is still leagues off.

New factions need to promote interactivity and have FMs who can be reasonably worked with. Otherwise? They belong in the dumpster, if I'm going to be painfully blunt.
 
as all of my new players also hate the NTSE
Maybe you shouldn't train them to hate the NTSE in your private Discord server. I'd have made you a setting submissions moderator already if you weren't so negative all the time. It's clear the problem is not coming from the moderator staff alone but also from your constant attacks on the staff, which spread negativity in our community.

The people who help vet setting submissions are volunteers who i trust with knowing
  1. The rules
  2. What does and doesn't belong in our shared RP universe
  3. How to interact with people in a helpful way
I've looked at the forum and it's clear stuff is still sitting around too long without getting evaluated but also keep in mind that speed has never been a goal with submissions, but rather if they meet the standards. I'll continue to recruit more trusted mods who can be active in the forum and replace ones who aren't able to find time to do the stuff we need them to do.
 
Why are you blaming me for this? I'm the one helping bring on new players and encouraging them to play / make stuff. Pointing out that people are having a problem with the NTSE isn't part of the problem.
 
At any point you could have backed me up a little and told DG "hey, I know you don't like Rizzo's advice but he's trying to help you improve your submission so you should hear him out" but you never did. Instead you would tell me that I should just let it fly. That's not how the ntse works. Everything needs to be carefully considered during the submission process and while I appreciate that you want to encourage new players to submit articles you also need to support the arrangement that we currently have in place. Thus far I have not seen that.

Encouraging players to write is great, but we don't need then believing that everything they write is amazing and Beyond question. You said it yourself, new players need help getting familiar with the setting and usually with writing as well. Granted, in the case of DG you were not the sole person to show the ntse a bad light. There is another who did worse. Regardless, even as someone else was scolding me for daring to point out issues with an idea, not even a submission but just an idea in the think tank, you never backed me up. In at least this case, you failed to straighten out the situation and permitted a bad impression to be made. This is my specific example.

In other cases you have suggested that we not have an ntse process and made numerous comments about how bad the ntse moderators are. That is something new players are going to see. Don't get me wrong, I don't have the greatest impression of certain moderators, but I am not going to talk about that publicly. If you wish to correct this issue moving forward please keep things like your complaints regarding moderators private. It is a very good start.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
RPG-D RPGfix
Back
Top