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Time to Put the Nomenclature to Bed

Arieg

Arieg

DEFCON Everybody Dies
It hadn't been an issue to simply overlook it before and since it reared its ugly head here recently I'd like to start this thread discussing it. Honestly the standard product nomenclature system serves no purpose at this time aside from being a headache and honestly something I even have trouble figuring out. I think its something we should retire as a requirement for NTSE activities.
 
I disagree with this as there are systems behind the naming that if you get to know help you identify the type of vessel a class is.
 
Ametheliana said:
I disagree with this as there are systems behind the naming that if you get to know help you identify the type of vessel a class is.
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Honestly better to just put it in the name of the vessel then rely on a complicated confusing number and letter scheme.
 
I also disagree. It works fine and serves the purpose Ametheliana states it does. Nor is it complicated.

What trouble do you have with it? Could we amend it to make it easier for you, or more expansive?
 
Doshii Jun said:
I also disagree. It works fine and serves the purpose Ametheliana states it does. Nor is it complicated.

What trouble do you have with it? Could we amend it to make it easier for you, or more expansive?
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Why bother using a complex nomenclature system when you can do the same thing with a sentence?
 
Because for others, the system doesn't appear broken. And it still does what we meant it to do -- ID maker, type, etc. of product.

It could identify more things. Maybe it needs expanding. But you're asking to toss something out. You haven't shown how it's burdensome, though I can imagine your twenty or so submissions play a role.
 
Doshii Jun said:
Because for others, the system doesn't appear broken. And it still does what we meant it to do -- ID maker, type, etc. of product.

It could identify more things. Maybe it needs expanding. But you're asking to toss something out. You haven't shown how it's burdensome, though I can imagine your twenty or so submissions play a role.
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Mostly it was never enforced until certain submissions started getting rather copious amounts of Swiss clocksmith like attention, and most never used it. Honestly outside of Yamatai it doesn't really serve a purpose, an extra complication thats been mostly ignored for the most part.
 
Just because you haven't noticed the nomenclature system always being enforced does not mean that it doesn't happen. It usually is enforced.

Want us to add an explanation like Doshii is thinking?
 
I do think the nomenclature system is flawed, but in that it needs to be adhered by the entire setting. I could kind of get anything Ketsurui Fleet Yard being the same nomenclature. I could get the Star Navy of Nepleslia sticking to it because their manufacturing was steeped in two decades of Yamatai standards.

Basically, a standard is present because you want to keep track of equipment and you want to stay compatible with it to a degree. If a standard is maintained, then there's a broader organization keeping track of it.

So, across the commonality of mankind, I can kind of get it.

But there's also factions that don't know humankind and have no reason to stick to the nomenclature. They might not even use alphabet or numbers as we know them. Their gear, like Mishhu, might be entirely organic and far removed from our own standards. And then, there could be the organizations out there that don't give a rat's arse about conforming and would rather do their own thing - perhaps even with the notion that they can do better.

...

So, I'm kind of with Arieg. I think the nomenclature guidelines is a great tool for primary factions to follow, but I would make them recommended rather than obligatory. It should be seen as a great tool to maintain consistency if you want it, not a straightjacket. But, also with the caveat that if you break standard, you face certain consequences on the broader market; you could be visiting a quartermaster at Pisces hoping to get components to repair your ship's systems, but then he looks at the nonstandard parts being requested and goes "I ain't got nothin' o' dat. Ye look elsewear fo' dem."

I don't have much against it personally, though I think it's dumb that I'm stuck with the prefix being "Mi" rather than "MLI" for Miharu Light Industries. A pet peeve, but nothing I'll lose sleep over.

But, yeah, I'm posting just because I can relate with Arieg's "this is dumb" reaction. It is. A bit. Or, at least, it's just as realistic as Neo Mishhu painting the alphabetic "NMX" logo on their warships rather than their alien script. Which is: not very much. *shrug*
 
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In my opinion, the only thing that needs to be "put to bed" is this recent trend of people insisting that the Submission Rules don't apply to their submissions.

Anyways.

I agree with what @Ametheliana, @Doshii Jun, and @Fred have said thus far, and I'd like to add the following:
EDIT: It's not just "twenty or so submissions," Doshii - by my count, Arieg has over one hundred wiki articles that are missing the proper nomenclature.
 
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I have no appetite to relitigate old submissions. I meant the 20 or so he just submitted.

Fred's points are reasonable. I was hoping Arieg would say something similar.

If the argument against the nomenclature is couched as Fred has it, OK. That's a viable argument. @Wes should have a chance to weigh in.
 
Doshii Jun said:
I have no appetite to relitigate old submissions. I meant the 20 or so he just submitted.

Fred's points are reasonable. I was hoping Arieg would say something similar.

If the argument against the nomenclature is couched as Fred has it, OK. That's a viable argument. @Wes should have a chance to weigh in.
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Pretty much in line with Fred here.
 
Fair enough. Why is it even needed?

Also that kind of proves what fred was saying.
 
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Ira said:
Fair enough. Why is it even needed?
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Because it provides a means of keeping track of technology ICly and OOCly - and did you even read my post, @Ira?

Ira said:
Also that kind of proves what fred was saying.
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Please refrain from double-posting, Ira - and what are you referring to?

@Doshii Jun - With all due respect, since when have we allowed submitters to get away with not following the rules? As I said in my earlier post, if @Arieg didn't want to follow the Standard Product Nomenclature, then he should have submitted his own version of it.
 
I use it to tell at a glance how dated a technology is. For example, we have a lot of "parallel development" in technology which is no more advanced (sometimes less advanced) but reflects the changing rules and aesthetic of the roleplay. When I returned from my long hiatus and needed to reacquaint myself with new technologies, I relied on the nomenclature system to tell me, at a glance, what I needed to prioritize.

In that respect, it also has an OOC purpose.

While I can see Fred's point, I would like to at least have each playable faction to have either this nomenclature system or their own documented version. NPCs can still benefit from it unless there is a good reason they shouldn't.

I see nomenclature in cases where it's impractical for a race or NPC faction to give it being assigned instead by player factions as a means of keeping track of alien ships and technology. Like how Americans named Japanese fighters in WWII (They initially used the name "Zeke" for the Zero but changed it later to the common name which was just as simple and matched the "Z" convention when translated), or the western names given to assorted Soviet cold-war era fighters. This eliminates the "Why did they use our alphabet" problem. Other factions could have assigned it a nomenclature.
 
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I'd be cool with multiple versions of a nomenclature system, maybe requiring a date so there's some consistency across the site. In my own work, its kind of silly to have my Theradactans using the same system as Yamatai, who they haven't even met yet. Sure, right now it has an OOC purpose, but if we're never using it ICly, then in my eyes it doesn't really have much of a point except as another box on the checklist.
 
Acewing13 said:
I'd be cool with multiple versions of a nomenclature system, maybe requiring a date so there's some consistency across the site. In my own work, its kind of silly to have my Theradactans using the same system as Yamatai, who they haven't even met yet. Sure, right now it has an OOC purpose, but if we're never using it ICly, then in my eyes it doesn't really have much of a point except as another box on the checklist.
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That's why we have factional variants of the Standard Product Nomenclature System, @Acewing13. :p

(Seriously, I can't wait to show y'all the one I've been making for le birbs :D)
 
FrostJaeger said:
That's why we have factional variants of the Standard Product Nomenclature System, @Acewing13. :p

(Seriously, I can't wait to show y'all the one I've been making for le birbs :D)
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Standard Product Nomenclature exists so that:
  1. People who can't for whatever reason make their own have something
  2. Products sold in the Kikyo Sector have a unified system, likely tracked by Yamatai and Nepleslian governments or run by an international nomenclature board
Can't see why we'd get rid of the requirement when the current rule is "make your own or go generic."
 
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