Why doesn't damage scale ?

[Alex Hart]

@Wes @CadetNewb It seems to me like the damage system is a little imbalanced, at least in terms of what can be equipped on mecha. For example, we all know that ADR 5 is equal to SDR 1 correct? Well, a handheld Star Army weapon is able to do the equivalent of SDR 1, and fires as fast as you can pull the trigger. But even the top of the line weapons for mecha, which are much bigger and fire much more powerful projectiles, do the same amount of damage. What gives? Why isn't damage scaled up logically? Mecha weapons like that obviously should be doing two or three times as much damage as one of the dinky little Aether carbines.

 

[Zack]

I'd love to make a more in depth response, and likely will later, but the answer is basically:

Sarp is intended to have low lethality (High time to kill)

Starships act like in star trek where you have to fight a bit to widdle down shields, power armor is kinda comic-book style where you can take some hits and be 'beat up' instead of getting killed.

Iirc Wes is wanting a new DR system and the one Fred proposes would turn SARP into a high lethality setting, with everyone getting killed in one shot. Mecha may end up with the kind of anti-ship weapons you want under that system.

Also IIRC Wes liked the low lethality rules because they kept starships powerful compared to fighters. He also wanted to keep fighters from dominating space battles (as compared to star-battleships being the go to.)

 

[Alex Hart]

But if mecha can do that, then won't PA be able to do it as well?

 

[Zack]

yes, high lethality (low time to kill) pretty much means either you can one-shot your target or you can't hurt your target at all.

Though that is in general, we've yet to see the New rules. Really talking about it here is just speculation

 

[Alex Hart]

That isn't my problem, its that mecha weapons should be more powerful than PA weapons, not just more powerful with PA being just the same.

 

[Doshii Jun]

Though Zack's reading of the new DR is skewed, most of what he says is right.

Bottom line, the DR wasn't made with mecha in mind. DR came first. So yes, there's no scale, strictly speaking. Nor were attempts to make one successful.

However, a GM can apply a scale, and that functionally is what's been done. Don't look for a scale in the current DR; find it with your GM.

 

[Alex Hart]

But if my GM relies on DR to gauge scale, then my mecha's guns are only as powerful as a Aether carbine, and that just makes no sense. The way that mecha scale weapons are written, they should be one shooting fighters and taking out gunships with a few volleys.

 

[Doshii Jun]

If your GM strictly uses the DR scale and nothing else, you should speak to them and make your case. I'm happy to help you make that case.

That's the system we have right now -- GMs rule, but you're always able to communicate with them. They should want you to have fun too, and if their DR reading is problematic, you and the GM should talk.

 

[Navian]

Most Star Army weapons have a DR rating that's a step or two higher than their form factor would suggest... which is a pretty big difference. It does amount to Star Army personal weapons being as powerful as heavy weapons, Star Army power armour weapons being as powerful as the weapons on mechas and starfighters, etc.. Star Army fighters don't seem to have that advantage, they're more durable than power armour but not more destructive.

There's some weird stuff about the DR system, but I think this aspect is working more-or-less as intended. I don't think the argument 'an NSP's shots shouldn't be an order of magnitude more energetic than those of an FMJ pistol' would fly, so 'a mecha that uses conventional weapons should be an order of magnitude more powerful than a power armour that shoots pocket nukes, because it's that much more massive' doesn't work, either. It depends on the weapons, since there can be a very big technology gap, otherwise.

 

[Dumont]

We haven't been using the DR scale as anything but a rough guideline. He's been pretty consistently one-shotting Misshu battlepods and no one's said anything about it because we've been trying to keep it cinematic.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I vaguely remember a rule being in place where a vehicle or vessel can deal out a maximum DR of one half its own SP in a single volley/attack/whatever. This means that a mech's strength isn't in individual weapons being able to take stuff out, but a higher maximum payload. Those aether carbines can do 5 ADR in one round as the average MINDY has 10 sp, but that's all. While an SP 25 mech firing all weapons can do about 12 ADR, effectively having more than double the firepower.

Long story short being: Your macross missile barrage is the most effective tactic for mechs.

You are a quantity machine, Alex. Fire lots of bullets at the thing and you will be pew pew kapow if/when we decide to start slavishly be stuck on the DR system.

 

[Doshii Jun]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I vaguely remember a rule being in place where a vehicle or vessel can deal out a maximum DR of one half its own SP in a single volley/attack/whatever.

This rule, as it stands, applies only to starships. Another loophole.

 

[Dumont]

I guess if it only applies to starships it means you've maybe got a higher damage potential than anything else out there, depending on how much guns you have slapped on your robutt? Which would imply that your mech could potentially have a higher damage potential than smaller starships.

While I can't be certain on that since I can't be bothered trawling through every mech article to check it, you have a shockingly high shooty kaboom-boom buns slappin' potential going on.

Just pull every trigger, dude. You'll be fiiiine.

 

[Doshii Jun]

It's almost a compensatory note for mecha. Since they aren't in the rules, the rules don't always apply. ^_^;

 

[Navian]

I found the quote.

The damage that a starship may produce overall is not limited. However, the damage it may attempt to produce on a single target 'per turn' of RP is limited to 2x the standard amount of structural points (SP) of the ship's class. For an example, a ship of the 'Very Heavy' class such as a battleship may produce up to 100 SDR on a single target, as the standard amount of structural points is 50. This applies even if this battleship has a total damage output of 300 SDR. In turn, this same ship may attempt to do 100 SDR on three separate targets, but never exceed its limit of 100 SDR on one target.

So, rather than the total damage output being limited by SP, the ability to focus on a single target is, with total damage output being limited by how many weapons can be crammed into the design.

I guess that's open to interpretation.

 

[Alex Hart]

While I can't be certain on that since I can't be bothered trawling through every mech article to check it, you have a shockingly high shooty kaboom-boom buns slappin' potential going on.

Just pull every trigger, dude. You'll be fiiiine.

#GoodTimes