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Would like input on two new Propulsion Articles...

Toshiro

Well-Known Member
I've got two SAoY WIPs that I would like input on. A sort of "I can feasibly do this effectively, but would the setting benefit?" thing that I would like input on various aspects of before actually submitting. These are intended not to add actual specs, but versatility. However, they might alter some aspects of combat. The Speed modulation capabilities specifically could make a vessel less reliant on top speed and more reliant on shifting its speeds within a certain range to be harder to hit. I would like peoples' input on this especially, as well as the ranges and degrees of modulation listed as well as other things. I'm not married to these figures, and feel that this is important enough to invite discussion and adjust as needed for the setting.

Here are summaries of the technologies. Please note that these linked pages may change/be adjusted, and the Integrated CFS Upgrade may or may not instead be integrated into the existing Integrated CFS Array Page later.

Multi-Stage Aether Drive
An STL option with various additional modes for STL use, centered on having parts with multiple roles, as well as forcefield and magnetic field geometry for various forms of operation. It can emulate a propeller with a shaped forcefield, various forms of jet (gradually transitioning between each type with shaped forcefields), a magnetohydrodynamic drive for water (using the existing magnetic systems intended for Turbo Aether Plasma containment), and standard Turbo Aether Plasma. Adds VTOL potential and thrust vectoring using the same forcefields and magnetism tech at the exhaust. It is inspired by the assorted environments Plumeria-class vessels have found themselves in in the past. It also has an STL Speed Modulation makes firing solutions in combat harder for an enemy, especially at range. With this, being a slower ship would not necessarily be as large a disadvantage.

Integrated CFS Update
This is an upgrade to Andrew's Integrated CFS Array that uses its properties to add new functionality. This includes the ability to change the CFS' shape for various purposes as well as improved aerodynamics/hydrodynamics planet-side and other functions. It also grants the ability to warp space in front of some lower-yield weapons and redirect their path (an attempt to make the placement of turrets everywhere more able to be balanced with aesthetic) as well as retain the old energy direction ability of the CFS plus some reasonable limitations and explanations for its disuse. It also has FTL Speed Modulation as well as STL Speed Modulation which is even more robust than the Multi-Stage Aether Drive, and a Course Modulation ability as well. The FTL Speed Modulation and Course Modulation abilities essentially make it very hard to intercept a vessel in FTL, even if it's slower than its pursuers.
 
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I'm trying to truncate these articles since they're large. The Integrated CFS Update is smaller than it originally was, though it lacks fancy graphics. The Integrated CFS Update has a notably simplified Speed and Course modulation section, so at least the discussion on that can be conducted without sifting through the Multi-Stage Aether Drive now.

Edit: Still working. I suspect the Multi-Stage Aether Drive will be less daunting once I include tables and such.
 
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Having quickly glanced over the two articles (sorry for the delay @Toshiro), here are my thoughts on them so far:
  • Apart from its wordiness, the Multi-Stage Aether Drive looks good to me, though I'd split the "new round" (mentioned here) and the Fabrication Chamber into separate submissions, as - no offense intended - this article is supposed to be about a new propulsion system, not a new form of ammunition or a new manufacturing system.
  • The Integrated CFS Update also looks good, however...
    • I'd recommend adding rows for two- and six-faced barriers to the "Integrated CFS Shield Geometry Modes" section - and I'd also advise that it be renamed "Integrated CFS Barrier Geometry Modes" in order to prevent any confusion regarding it and physical shields; additionally, I'd propose adding range and surface area limitations to the "Variable Mode" for the sake of clarity.
    • I'd suggest adding statistics such as range, rate of fire, energy lost per "beam" (as a percentage), area of effect, maximum number of projectable "beams," and such to the "Relay Redirection" section. Also, what kind of energy is redirected? Electromagnetic?
    • I'd encourage the addition of a maximum range in the Distortion Redirection section, as with the way it's written now one could (in my humble opinion) mistakenly assume that it's capable of performing "last-minute course corrections" at any range, thereby granting "turrets, [...] cannons, and some lighter energy armaments" an absurd degree of accuracy.
    • Although I have no complaints whatsoever regarding the faster-than-light aspects of the Propulsion Modulation section, the slower-than-light aspects have me a bit...concerned, to be honest. Given that such a system could be feasibly tied into a starship's computers and sensors (thereby allowing said computer to react to incoming weapons fire the moment it was detected), how could one possibly land a shot on a starship equipped with this system? Non-lightspeed weapons - which includes virtually every missile/torpedo/etc. in the setting - would be rendered useless due to being unable to hit their targets, and lightspeed weapons would suffer massive reductions in accuracy except at point-blank ranges.
Apologies if I came across as rude/harsh/etc., especially in that last section - I'm merely attempting to provide constructive feedback in order to help improve this highly-detailed and highly-useful submission.
 
Apologies if I came across as rude/harsh/etc., especially in that last section - I'm merely attempting to provide constructive feedback in order to help improve this highly-detailed and highly-useful submission.

All the criticism has been constructive and polite. I welcome it all and thank you for it. That's the point of this thread, after all!

Apart from its wordiness, the Multi-Stage Aether Drive looks good to me, though I'd split the "new round" (mentioned here) and the Fabrication Chamber into separate submissions, as - no offense intended - this article is supposed to be about a new propulsion system, not a new form of ammunition or a new manufacturing system.

That's a good idea and no offense is taken. I was a bit overzealous in the versatility of the engine, and I stapled something to it that would probably work better separately.

I'd recommend adding rows for two- and six-faced barriers to the "Integrated CFS Shield Geometry Modes" section - and I'd also advise that it be renamed "Integrated CFS Barrier Geometry Modes" in order to prevent any confusion regarding it and physical shields

I am not sure that the "barriers" aspect plays as well with the hardware of the Integrated CFS Array that Andrew made. Essentially this is a massive array of emitters built into plating for optimal redundancy and versatility. We can interpret it as a six-sided barrier solely for DR use and approximation of shield energy reserves, and I can try to include such commentary, but it's really a massive number of barriers that work together and can freely transfer and re-route power within certain reasonable limits. I'll look for a proper place to add it but since six-sided and bubble, for example, are not mutually exclusive; I shouldn't just tack it in the geometry section but perhaps elsewhere. I will rename the section though.

additionally, I'd propose adding range and surface area limitations to the "Variable Mode" for the sake of clarity.

As for Variable Mode, the statement that a vessel can't protect a second vessel much larger than itself was an attempt to put a limit on the size of Variable Mode without having to give a lesson on the Square Cube law and also giving the players a tad of leeway. Maybe my wording needs improved though, and I accept recommendations. Perhaps I should employ a table... So here's the math:

For every increase in scale, the surface area is that multiplier squared and the new volume is that multiplier cubed. Barrier strength is tied to the available energy distributed to protect that surface area, and the needed shield energy can thus be calculated. Here's an example; if the shield bubble was increased to 200% scale (multiplier of 2), the surface area of the shields would quadruple (2^2) and the volume would increase by a factor of eight (2^3). Because the shields have four times as much surface area to protect with the same amount of energy, then their strength should reduce to 25% in that instance. While the shields could be supplemented with additional power in available by rerouting from weapons or something, doubling any section to the field to 50% would be the same as driving the emitters to 200% and any more would be considered unsafe. I think that this is the functional upper limit for towing other vessels and providing adequate debris deflection, but is not suitable for combat defense.

A volume increase of about 300% would be closer to my upper limit for protecting something else of similar size to the protecting ship in combat with proper shielding without risk of collision. We have to work backwards to find the cube root of 3 (300%) to determine the initial scale multiplier of 1.44224957031. Cubing that to determine the multiplier of surface area yields 2.08008382306. The barrier's normal energy reserves powering this larger shield mean that it has a standard relative shield strength of 48.0749856767265%.

End result: A bubble with a scale increase of about 144% can hold roughly 300% more volume with an average barrier strength of 50%. Sections of this barrier can be boosted to 100% safely (200% emitter output) either by sacrificing some sections of the shield, tying the two ships' power systems together physically, or perhaps by disabling main energy weapons and diverting all weapon power to the shields or other creativeness. The more they can cut down the total surface area, the better.

It was far simpler to just say "a ship can't really hope to protect something much larger than itself", but I'll try to think of better ways to convey this without brain melty. Also, feel free to check my math and interpretation.

I'd suggest adding statistics such as range, rate of fire, energy lost per "beam" (as a percentage), area of effect, maximum number of projectable "beams," and such to the "Relay Redirection" section. Also, what kind of energy is redirected? Electromagnetic?

While I would like to codify more for the "Relay Redirection" area, I'm working with very limited data. This is describing an existing decade+ old ability in every CFS, with an extra limitation placed on it to keep it from being OP and also to give a reason why it's come into general disuse. Also, please note that this is a submission for the general CFS type. The more detailed nuances you ask for would likely depend on the specific implementation used on a class of ship. A missile or shuttle won't have the same specs in this case as a gunship. Every ship submission with this legacy functionality should codify this stuff, but does not. As for the type of energy...memory fails me, if I ever really knew. It's a leftover from the era of handwaving.

I'd encourage the addition of a maximum range in the Distortion Redirection section, as with the way it's written now one could (in my humble opinion) mistakenly assume that it's capable of performing "last-minute course corrections" at any range, thereby granting "turrets, [...] cannons, and some lighter energy armaments" an absurd degree of accuracy.

The Distortion Redirection concern is an easy answer. It's effect is limited to within the range of the CFS at that time. I had either presumed it to be clear, or lost that detail when trying to truncate the text.

Although I have no complaints whatsoever regarding the faster-than-light aspects of the Propulsion Modulation section, the slower-than-light aspects have me a bit...concerned, to be honest. Given that such a system could be feasibly tied into a starship's computers and sensors (thereby allowing said computer to react to incoming weapons fire the moment it was detected), how could one possibly land a shot on a starship equipped with this system? Non-lightspeed weapons - which includes virtually every missile/torpedo/etc. in the setting - would be rendered useless due to being unable to hit their targets, and lightspeed weapons would suffer massive reductions in accuracy except at point-blank ranges.

This is not only a valid point, but was one of my main concerns. I saw the same potential and felt that the influence on STL combat RP required that people get to weigh in. I can try to salvage this, or I can try to remove the STL component entirely if preferred. As for the FTL aspect, I feel that it is purely defensive and acceptable. It makes ships with a slower FTL speed than their pursuers still have a solid chance of escaping to friendly territory and allies.
 
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Wes has stated to me that the maximum CFS extension capability could be stated as four times the length of a vessel. So my hypothesis of 2x in each dimension for towing alone is unlikely to be achievable.

(Edit: The text below is irrelevant, as Wes ruled that there's be no two-sided barriers not mecha-sized.)

Also, another matter. Andrew's system has a "Deflector Cluster" system in the original page, meant to allow CFS control without an old school separate CFS. Six such systems are employed on Star Fortresses, implying 6-faced barrier functionality...though this was written before DRv3.

However, I wanted to have at least three "Deflector Clusters" on some ships...a forward "backup" and two meant for use on the nacelles. The forward deflector would be a backup of sorts, but likely couldn't be used at the same time as the main weapon in the front of a Plumeria class was online...so it'd be more a "raise what shields we have and get out of here" option if the nacelles were damaged. That was my initial thinking, anyway.

However, I realized that the Multi-Stage Aether Drive has a power generation component explicitly designed to help with powering the CFS and leaving main engineering available for other systems, added before I even read DRv3. Does this miniaturization and such mean that the new Plumeria concept should have a Two-faced barrier (port and starboard with a deflector cluster each) with a possible backup option (deflector cluster powered by main weapon power source for if things get dicey and make them have to run)?
 
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https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=wip:integrated_cfs_array_scratch

I shifted gears to this combined page based on Andrew's, and think I've resolved all of @FrostJaeger 's concerns for the Integrated CFS. Six-faced barriers, maximum ranges to the shields and the Distortion (renamed Discharge) Redirection, renaming and elaboration on Relay Redirection (Projected Energy Beams), and the discarding of the STL speed modulation aspect.

Edit: I think it's to where it can be submitted. Any last comments/concerns?
 
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https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=wip:integrated_cfs_array_scratch

I shifted gears to this combined page based on Andrew's, and think I've resolved all of @FrostJaeger 's concerns for the Integrated CFS. Six-faced barriers, maximum ranges to the shields and the Distortion (renamed Discharge) Redirection, renaming and elaboration on Relay Redirection (Projected Energy Beams), and the discarding of the STL speed modulation aspect.

Edit: I think it's to where it can be submitted. Any last comments/concerns?

Apologies for not replying earlier - and it looks good to me. :)
 
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