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Approved Submission [SAoY] KFY Ke-M2-4 Series MINDY Armor Suit

Wes

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Submission Type: Power Armor
Submission URL: https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=stararmy:equipment:ke-m2-4_series_mindy_armor

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Faction:
FM Approved Yet? Yes, FM-approved by me last year
Faction requires art? Yes

For Reviewers:
Contains Unapproved Sub-Articles? Yes (hand weapons)
Contains New art? Yes
Previously Submitted? Yes

Notes: Added the most requested feature: Compatibility with Mindy 2 hardpoint accessories. Also added backup (non-aether) power.
 
This suggestion has been implemented. Votes are no longer accepted.
I still feel like the Zesu is too much. Yamataium, or Yama-Dura, would be much more reasonable for the average neko user, and would allow us to bring back the PA Ace Zesu Chainmail instead, which is a fun little flavor point that isn't used nearly as much as it should be.

You also left the anti-aether shielding in place, which was the other major contested point the last time the armor was put up, for reasons that haven't changed in the slightest.
 
Zesu.... shouldn't be used in a PA platform unless its a one off special snowflake unit.
Zesauium power armor has been used since the M1 LAMIA in YE 24/2003. It is neither inappropriate nor unusual for Yamatai to use Zesauium on its power armors.

You also left the anti-aether shielding in place, which was the other major contested point the last time the armor was put up, for reasons that haven't changed in the slightest.
Pretty much every aether generator made for the Star Army since YE 32 or 33 (2011) has used a Xiulurium layer to block aether interference and detection. This is not something new. I've basically disregarded or countered anti-aether tech and anti-FTL tech since 2011 and will continue to do so. Personally I think it should anti-aether fields should be phased out entirely but I haven't got there yet. In the meantime my ships and armors are all starting to sport more reliable aether generators to avoid that threat.
 
Zesuaium
Ze-su-aium
People, please T_T

The Mindy Mk IV doesn't adjust its size. You can have one custom-made for you, but it won't be able to compensate for user size unlike some other past armors. This is an interesting tidbit - perhaps the Mindy IV not being easy to maintain also ties in with that. Maybe weight saving tying in with the teleportation capability also plays in that.

Artwork with labels point to the ear, but there's no label for that one.

Artwork shows Waist hardpoints, but doesn't allude to it later in the text.

The Mindy IV's battery is extremely efficient. Considerably so, when keeping the Daisy in mind and the Mindy IV's relatively small size in comparison. I figure this might also play into its ability to teleport (teleportation charge being held here and stuff).

Teleportation module is alluded to in mobility, but the system isn't explored later. Is this really okay?

Mobility refers to propulsion, but not movement. What ground speed can I expect from a Mindy?

Weapons are sparse in detail. They seem like good concepts, but I wouldn't endorse these being tools available to players as long as they don't reach previously set standards. Wes, you can get away with sparse details on the Mishhu units, but if you want this Mindy IV to see use, that has to improve.

sub-component listing does not include inbuilt weaponry? Is this okay? (I do know they're listed not too far down after that)

The Mindy IV's concealed energy weapons are easy to miss since they aren't part of the bulletpoint listing. Perhaps "Inbuilt weaponry" and "Standard payload" section would be appropriate? It'd also be the opportunity to allude to any combat application to hard-light (which I'm still greatly iffy about, by the way - at least make it easier on the player/reader to figure out what he can do with it).

...

Overall, I like it. It actually doesn't dethrone the Mindy II so much as creates an able unit that's a more specialized teleporter. It performs better than the Mindy II at this task. You could have a ship-full of the Mark IV and that'd work out okay in an elite unit. You could have a mix of the IIs and IVs to go more economical, share most of the payload between the two thanks to the backward compatibility. Or you could have ships still only with IIs simply because they don't need to specialize that much.
 
Time for my issue list.

1: Hyperbole: "It features the most reliable and powerful aether generator ever made for a power armor." Do not use absolutes, its a turn-off. Proper phrasing could be "It features a new aether generator, which is more powerful and reliable than previous models."

2: Why so slow in atmosphere with turbo-aether thrusters? A machine so small should be moving much faster, especially if it is using CFS to effectively create an aerodynamic shield profile. It should be faster, much faster.

3: Where'd that extra .005 come from for STL speed? Are we tweaking speed limits again? Let me know so I can tell my dev team.

4: Add a header for your teleportation module speed, or add a word or two, such as "Instant point-to-point travel"

5: Why the limitation for under-water usage? If the Mindy is using zesuaium components, pressure should be a non-issue. It should not even be an issue if the Mindy is sitting in the middle of a gas giant.

6: You're missing a size for occupants, 'full size' may be ideal for Neko with broad hips or shoulders. Especially shoulders, in the case of samurai or infantry.

7: Titanium chassis? Really? Yamatai can do better.

8: What is the zesuaium mounted onto? If it is the titanium layer, then we've got a major durability concern here. Mount the zesuaium on a more robust material, such as a boron compound.

9: You may want to add a laser comm emitter. It may raise some very distinctive concerns if laser is the only method of contact, and a Mindy is attempting to make contact without the aid of IFF. All the receiver would see is a laser-rangefinder signal possibly painting a target.

These are my initial issues, more to come later, if any.
 
D-D-Double Post.

10: How do pilots without SPINE interact with the machine? What do they do?

11: Why not use a nodal device system to reprocess air and waste to be reused indefinitely?

12: There's nothing here to help when the pilot is injured beyond merely the hemosynth insert. Why not integrate a limited suite of drugs and purpose-formulated hemosynth designed purely for wound-repair, or limb replacement?

13: Am I seeing right that the new Mindy has less mounting points than the previous Mindy, and even the Kylie?

14: Hey, what happened to the support drones? Support drones were a really useful item for Mindy pilots who did not want to peek their head around a corner and die.

15: I see there has also been a reduction in real-estate for hand-held weapon storage, most especially in comparison to the Kylie armor. What gives for when a solider needs to use their hands?

16: Since it is noted that this model is difficult for non-Nekovalkryja to use, what is going to be done for non-neko personnel? Is the introduction of this piece of equipment going to be counter-productive for the Empire?

17: Custom armors are possibly a solution, but what is to be done about the supply chain? Since custom armors would have different dimensions, this means that zesuaium components would not be able to be replaced in the field, nor would other key structural components, without intensive investment of work in the fabrication bay.

18: Just what makes this new aether reactor THE BEST?

19: Due to the frailty of xiulurium, it is very possible that the insulation could be easily burnt off, while leaving the rest of the machine intact. Is there a countermeasure to this? Would aether interference systems be able to be used successfully once the insulation is fried off?

20: What is the mesh chain mail comprised of?

21: Does the helmet include a mounting latch system? If so, what is the mechanism?

22: What makes this machine 'high end'? I'm missing the party piece here.
 
Time for my issue list.

5: Why the limitation for under-water usage? If the Mindy is using zesuaium components, pressure should be a non-issue. It should not even be an issue if the Mindy is sitting in the middle of a gas giant.

It has moving joints. That means flowing pieces. That means parts that have to physically deform in order to function. This isn't a statue, its a power-armor. Even with hard plates here, they still have to move.
 
If Wes would just use interlinking zesuaium framework that would lock up when pressure is exerted in an 'invalid' direction, it would be possible to use yarvex for the joints, that would prevent the water thing from being an issue.
 
Though I don't agree with the tone of all the questions -- and any references to the Kylie are moot -- I'd like to hear answers to some of the concerns before I move into review mode.
 
Personally, I think the Kylie issue is important, because Yamatai has yet to make another multi-species machine that has actually caught on in any meaningful way. Since Yamatai is focused on standing alone, but still has non-nekovalkryja personnel serving in its ranks, they're not going to have access to machines that would be compatible with the various species. Machines that could have been available if there was an ability to import them from foreign manufacturers such as NAM, but is now not an option. I'm curious if this design will fill that niche at all.
 
If Wes would just use interlinking zesuaium framework that would lock up when pressure is exerted in an 'invalid' direction, it would be possible to use yarvex for the joints, that would prevent the water thing from being an issue.

The second law of thermodynamics says the entropy of a given system has to allow for all positional states that system is going to occupy for that system to occupy those states. The only way for it not to is to remove them. Try to imagine you have a a suit of mail and you thicken the chain. The interlocking distances are now smaller and as such so is the field of movement. This is true of any tessellating structure. Similarly, any structure which can move on more than one axis is either a thread or tessellates on some level and is forced to follow this rule.

The only counterargument to this is if the material can at times become an immobile system where the entropy falls to near zero because the entire thing is unable to structurally move. For example, for a leg to bend forward with armor, you need give at the rear for it to stretch and give at the front for it to structurally compress. When the give of the two is not equal, the natural or standing state of the material is not "flat" but the wearer would have to force their legs down in order to stand upright - and that's just in a system engineered to MINIMIZE non-desirable positioning, not prevent it.

Think about how the skin on your fingers works, particularly how much thinner and more plentiful it is around the joints, creasing into a C shape so there's an excess. You need an excess in order to either compress or extend and that's a mechanical fact of any system that changes shape.

awww.oceanworks.com_admin_sitefile_1_images_Cropped_204_20suits.webp

See here how they solved it by faking/emulating real motion by having Z-axis translation? Translation doesn't express any new material and is barely movement because the pressure levels around the seal do not change.

tl;dr: If you want compression to stop being dangerous, you need to freeze it stiff and have stiff joints that have minimal entropy, such as those spherically clustered diving suits which allow for minimal motion along many points with a very high degree of structural integrity. That's actually down to the cubed law of how materials work and it sadly can't be cheated using metamaterials or molecular engineering.

Moving parts are points of weakness, unless you hide the part that does the actual moving.

If you want to dive into some ultra dense place, you're going to have to totally cover those joints and utterly limit the motion. Your best bet would be mounting the power-armor in its locked state as a cockpit to an external truss with specially prepared engines and weapons, a bit like how a baby carrier works.

aa.dilcdn.com_bl_wp_content_uploads_sites_8_2013_04_stokke_my_6d9af32c708bd17cc63b687bd73c4b38.webp

You could probably engineer the thing to be a packhorse or detatchable FTL engine like that one in Episode II used by the Jedi proto Tie Fighters?

As seen here:


Doubles as AWACS/ammunition storage/telecoms mediator/supply carrier

Like bigdog when its unmanned

awww.robaid.com_wp_content_gallery_bigdog_bigdog.webp

upload_2016-4-15_21-20-37.webp

And then like Keloid when someone's inside it if you don't feel the baby-carrier look. Could be good for transporting POW's or important persons or even delivering a bomb or sentry or some other special mission equipment.

There have to be missions other than "attack this" or "defend this" which both by extension are "shoot at thing". Maybe go to place, set up thing, monitor thing or capture thing. Those are cool too, but they're not roles power-armor are suited for when really they should be amazing at them given how portable and powerful they are and how they are literally the best kind of bodyguard imaginable.

...But they still can't get a person off a planet or out of a ship without killing them and their cargo-capacity is a joke.

Sorry, rambling.
 
Summarized Osaka post here.
I think we need to clarify whether or not the armor is diving using CFS. That can be part of Wes' overall look at the questions presented.

Personally, I think the Kylie issue is important, because Yamatai has yet to make another multi-species machine that has actually caught on in any meaningful way..
The Mindy caught on, as did the Daisy -- considering they're the only machines issued, they seem to do fine and still do.

You're the only one bringing up the Kylie. You're obsessed with it years after it was phased out of production, let alone service in the military.

Drop it, or I drop you from this thread. If you want to bring up your concerns, do so in relevant terms.
 
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Alright, in relevant terms, I'll put it this way.

This model of Mindy is outperformed by the Nepleslian Devastator in firepower and armor, the Nepleslian Hostile in regard to firepower, armor, and planetary operations mobility, the Lorath AMX-102 in firepower, as well as mobility both planetary and zero-atmospheric (Not counting the teleport module), and this model falls behind all of the above in pilot compatibility.

All around, the new Mindy is shaping up to be an equivalent to a real-world F-35, a fancy showpiece which is going to be put into mainstream production while having no clearly defined purpose other than vague mentions of superiority, a job already accomplished by the 2D model Mindy. It brings nothing noteworthy to the table, and, it is lackluster in comparison to 'earlier armors' deployed by the Yamatai Empire.

Edit P.S: Furthermore, the original Mindy concept was pitched as an 'Anti-Starship Power Armor', the new Mindy is abandoning that role, and is attempting to do what the Daisy was meant to do, which is act as infantry. Give the Mindy teeth, and a purpose, otherwise the Empire would be better served by mass-producing more Nodachi fighters and giving the Daisy a space mobility package.
 
I dislike calling it 'Hard Light' instead of 'Volumetrics' and normally I'd complain about that being used to give the Mindy 2 sets of shields.

That aside, having 20 shields isn't a big deal for a power armor and switching off between armor mode and flight mode is really cool.

---

I also like seeing the integrated weapons since it reminds me of the SIAR from the NDI. The buttpack is also a very nice thing to have right up front instead of buried in the armor description. This page also looks a whole lot better than the earlier Mindy page, cleaner, tighter, ect.

---

I would like to see dismount instructions (Or better yet, an RP example!) for the Mindy when it isn't on the rack.

---

The teleporter I'm conflicted about. On one hand I do love teleportation. It is very useful for a clever character and is great for showing off in RP. The 15 second charge time pushes the mindy teleporter from an emergency thing to a 'use all the time' thing. Which if you're wanting to see a LOT more teleporting then ok.

On the negative side I dislike Yamatai having a special FTL method that no one else has, and I'm also worried that going from 45 to 15 second charge time on the teleporter means that the next mindy down the line is going to have instant teleporting all the time.

---

I think this was also something worth commenting on from earlier in the thread
"The Mindy can also operate underwater to a depth of at least 100 meters"
Going under water is very different from going into space in regards to the engineering requirements, so I find it plausible that the armor wouldn't do well when it goes deep. That being said 'Can operate at least 100 meters underwater' feels like a great way of saying, "You can go deep, but you're on your own past 100 meters.'
 
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Artwork with labels point to the ear, but there's no label for that one.

Artwork shows Waist hardpoints, but doesn't allude to it later in the text.
I removed the labels artwork to avoid confusion. The waist hardpoints are where the hand weapons (aether blade) are stored/hung. Added wait hardpoints to the Hardpoints section.

Teleportation module is alluded to in mobility, but the system isn't explored later. Is this really okay?
Added to systems.

Mobility refers to propulsion, but not movement. What ground speed can I expect from a Mindy?
Added: "The armor doesn't impede movement. Users can walk, run, or float as fast or faster than they can without the armor."

Weapons are sparse in detail. They seem like good concepts, but I wouldn't endorse these being tools available to players as long as they don't reach previously set standards. Wes, you can get away with sparse details on the Mishhu units, but if you want this Mindy IV to see use, that has to improve.
I'll see what I can do. If not I'll just use older weapons for the time being.

sub-component listing does not include inbuilt weaponry? Is this okay? (I do know they're listed not too far down after that)
Added to subsystem list and weapons section. Recycled weapons from the Mindy 1H.

1: Hyperbole: "It features the most reliable and powerful aether generator ever made for a power armor." Do not use absolutes, its a turn-off. Proper phrasing could be "It features a new aether generator, which is more powerful and reliable than previous models."
Changed.

2: Why so slow in atmosphere with turbo-aether thrusters? A machine so small should be moving much faster, especially if it is using CFS to effectively create an aerodynamic shield profile. It should be faster, much faster.
It's a power armor, not a fighter. Power armor speeds should be reasonable. Mach 1.7 is not slow at all.

3: Where'd that extra .005 come from for STL speed? Are we tweaking speed limits again? Let me know so I can tell my dev team.
This is Yamatai's technological edge showing. It's basically there to let armors catch the starships they're made to board.

4: Add a header for your teleportation module speed, or add a word or two, such as "Instant point-to-point travel"
Done.

5: Why the limitation for under-water usage? If the Mindy is using zesuaium components, pressure should be a non-issue. It should not even be an issue if the Mindy is sitting in the middle of a gas giant.
I disagree, and Osaka has already explained why.

6: You're missing a size for occupants, 'full size' may be ideal for Neko with broad hips or shoulders. Especially shoulders, in the case of samurai or infantry.
They're typically custom size. I don't see the problem here. Nekos come in predictable sizes and they're already provided for.

7: Titanium chassis? Really? Yamatai can do better.
It's not helpful unless to provide a suggested alternative. Yamatai has used Titanium chassis armors practically forever and they've been fine so far.

8: What is the zesuaium mounted onto? If it is the titanium layer, then we've got a major durability concern here. Mount the zesuaium on a more robust material, such as a boron compound.
Yarvex chainmail "suit" layer. Added that. Matches Mindy 2 now.

9: You may want to add a laser comm emitter. It may raise some very distinctive concerns if laser is the only method of contact, and a Mindy is attempting to make contact without the aid of IFF. All the receiver would see is a laser-rangefinder signal possibly painting a target.
Removed the part about having to use the laser range finder for laser comms.

10: How do pilots without SPINE interact with the machine? What do they do?
Added options for non-SPINE users based on the Mindy 2.

11: Why not use a nodal device system to reprocess air and waste to be reused indefinitely?
Nanomachines, son! And I wanted it to be the same as the Mindy 2.

12: There's nothing here to help when the pilot is injured beyond merely the hemosynth insert. Why not integrate a limited suite of drugs and purpose-formulated hemosynth designed purely for wound-repair, or limb replacement?
HS is pretty much the most helpful thing to put in there. And Yamatai never uses drug injectors in their power armor like the NDI armors (and some Nepleslian armors) do.

13: Am I seeing right that the new Mindy has less mounting points than the previous Mindy, and even the Kylie?
No. It has 7.

14: Hey, what happened to the support drones? Support drones were a really useful item for Mindy pilots who did not want to peek their head around a corner and die.
There is no need to carry drones that can move themselves. But if necessary these can be added via the thigh hardpoint. Remember we still haven't really developed the new set of accessory modules for this one yet.

15: I see there has also been a reduction in real-estate for hand-held weapon storage, most especially in comparison to the Kylie armor. What gives for when a solider needs to use their hands?
Hand weapons are typically attached to those big waist hardpoints. This has been noted in the wiki article now.

16: Since it is noted that this model is difficult for non-Nekovalkryja to use, what is going to be done for non-neko personnel? Is the introduction of this piece of equipment going to be counter-productive for the Empire?
It's really designed for nekos first, but other species can get them made in their size and use them. I think it'll be fine and there's still things like MCAS available too.

17: Custom armors are possibly a solution, but what is to be done about the supply chain? Since custom armors would have different dimensions, this means that zesuaium components would not be able to be replaced in the field, nor would other key structural components, without intensive investment of work in the fabrication bay.
This is true, but it hasn't stopped Yamatai from making Zesuaium armors in the past like the 1H. Standard practice is to plug the holes with some other armor until the replacement parts arrive. There may also be alternate armor pieces available like Yamadura ones - those could be made as holdovers in a ship bay.

18: Just what makes this new aether reactor THE BEST?
It's able to ignore troublesome Lorath shenanigans. :P I changed the wording in the article.

19: Due to the frailty of xiulurium, it is very possible that the insulation could be easily burnt off, while leaving the rest of the machine intact. Is there a countermeasure to this? Would aether interference systems be able to be used successfully once the insulation is fried off?
The Xiulurium layer goes outside the Zesuaium containment cell to prevent that from happening. But in aether reactors, even the Zesuaium is eaten away and has to be replaced periodically as shown in Eucharis engineering RP.

20: What is the mesh chain mail comprised of?
Yarvex. Added to article.

21: Does the helmet include a mounting latch system? If so, what is the mechanism?
Suggestions, anyone?

Edit P.S: Furthermore, the original Mindy concept was pitched as an 'Anti-Starship Power Armor', the new Mindy is abandoning that role, and is attempting to do what the Daisy was meant to do, which is act as infantry. Give the Mindy teeth, and a purpose, otherwise the Empire would be better served by mass-producing more Nodachi fighters and giving the Daisy a space mobility package.
Mindy armors stopped being anti-starship when the Damage Rating system was updated because armor scale weapons are not effective against starships. The purpose of a Mindy armor is to board other starships.

I would like to see dismount instructions (Or better yet, an RP example!) for the Mindy when it isn't on the rack.
Added.
 
I figure the only real hardpoint disadvantage the Mark IV has is its backpack, which is fixed to being the inbuilt teleportation module. This said, it's a really good teleportation mobule (if shorter-ranged than predecessors, but it's probably not a crippling limitation).

I think the Mindy's starship role just changed to being able to do surgical attacks on ships. Sort of like how a Macross Valkyrie fighter can blast at the turrets of a Zentraedi warship, use missiles to blast open an airlock, go inside, cause mayhem, escape before the internal defenses organize (in a small destroyer anyways).

Wes, deterioration of zesuaium components in aether power sources is a useful engineering tidbit for technician-inclined players. Is this documented somewhere beyond your plot?
 
Hard light very specifically refers to trapping photons and capturing them into an artificial atom. Solid volumetrics and hardlight are not the same thing. Its better uses are not as optical disguises but for logistical purposes and for bridging compatibility issues with hardware - eg, you could turn one socket into two as a splitter system using hardlight but when the projection fails both accessories fall off.
 
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