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Rejected Submission [Pact] Helka-Alpha Star System

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Arieg

DEFCON Everybody Dies
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12,564,621,400
Is this supposed to be a number of people? I don't think it makes sense at all to add a new star system of this population size to the SARP setting, considering that in YE 18, there was something like only 4 known colonized star systems in the whole setting. Also that's a population that rivals Yamatai's. Basically its seems like you're constantly trying to get on even ground with the established factions of the site, which people have spent literal IRL decades building, and whereas Yamatai is full of players the PACT is basically just you, it seems like.
 
The opening section said:
Located nearly two-hundred and fifty light years below the Western Lonely Expanse...

Didn't @Wes state here that "...[your] systems [are located] on the Western map[?]"

The opening section said:
A distant colony of the Colonial Trade Pact alliance... [...] Its primary means of returning to the core worlds of the Colonial Alliance is a semi-naturally occuring stellar gate, kept safe by man made structures. With it the outer systems of their motherland can be reached within as little as fifteen days. Without and only using their shipboard FTL drives the journey can take nearly six months.

According to this section of the Military Buildup Limitations, a "...faction is unable to expand..." if "...the number of active factional players is less than the number of star systems controlled by that faction..." in order "...to prevent small players[sic] from having a disproportionate influence on the SARP universe."

Given that Seehund - who is inactive, as they haven't logged in since August 4th - and Immortal Cyan are the only two players participating in the VSGRotCP's only plot (which hasn't been active in over thirty days, thus making it an archived plot and making the VSGRotCP a Non-Player Faction), the entire VSGRotCP (including this "Colonial Trade Pact") should - in my opinion - consist of at most three star systems (Helka Alpha, Helka Beta, and Helka Gamma) in order to reflect the small size of its playerbase and its OOC youthfulness within the setting.

The "Ship Construction and Shipyards" section said:
The largest yards, those capable of producing star system infrastructure such as station sections and capital warships, are clustered around Leningrad and Faust. However by no means are these the only shipyards, numerous smaller and moderate scale operations can be found throughout the star system with the next largest cluster being found among the moons of Helka-Alpha VI. Mostly these yards are used to replace damaged or derelict infrastructure, however they are also capable of large scale ship production and if needed be brought up to a full scale wartime production queue.

According to this section of the Military Buildup Limitations, "newly approved factions start off with one shipyard," not ten.
 
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Frost does bring up some valid concerns that need to be addressed.

@FrostJaeger Arieg apparently can't or couldn't read that conversation.
 
The discussion of why the system can't be located below the Lonely Expanse and should be located in the western Expanse just needs to be more public or just readdressed so that everyone can read it. I would like to know where it is actually located so I can submit the base that is supporting the Lindorm appropriately.
 
@Arieg looks like there are 4 players in the Pact rping, so that addresses the rp concern. Ham, Madi, immortal, Arieg.

So if you want to get technical- Arieg and I did an rp establishing the relationship between ONI and the PACT
at the beginning of Oct which does not make this a NPC faction- https://stararmy.com/roleplay-forum/index.php?threads/pact-oni-of-meetings-and-wardrooms.60047/

It seems conflicting to complain about rp when stalling the approval of the faction articles is what’s preventing its more involved use. I’m specifically trying to use this system for a Yamatai plot right now too.

As no one else is privy to the actual conversation that happened- why can’t these star systems exist in a 3D plane beneath the lonely expanse? They would just need a new inset map.

But the concern is the population numbers? @Wes How many people would you rather it be? How many shipyards? It would be better to just state what you want to happen so @Arieg can address it.
 
Would something like 3 billion work okay for you Arieg?
 
Population Issues,

I'm going to go ahead and start with the population issue and the fact it is apparently being linked to how powerful a faction is, population at least in this setting does not equal power. The number of developed individual star systems you control with enough bodies to justify industry do. Even then the buildup limitation rules tied to this are selectively enforced and mostly at the thoughts and opinions of @Wes at any given time (IE Nepleslia has the RP to justify its present holdings but its player population wouldn't allow it). If the faction population where a factor the Gartegens would laugh at us all and slaughter us.

Now you say I'm trying to be stronger then Yamatai by having a larger population so lets look at what Yamatai is, which is for all intents and purposes a god faction attempting to play a regular faction. They have indestructible materials, unlimited easy to access free energy, the ability to convert energy directly into matter, and above all they can create nekos and fully educated mature human-like gynoids (Minkans) on demand. They are post scarcity and literally only have money to make trading with other factions easier (or to use it as an economic weapon). Yamatai could more then likely manufacture billions of souls and build up each of its colony worlds to the level of Helka-Alpha in a period of a few years if they wanted too. But they don't need to and said number isn't a factor in their power.

Now the question of why do I want that number? Because population is one of the factors that determines (unless your completely automated) the level of infrastructure and buildup in any given setting element and I want to portray Helka Alpha as a highly developed colonial star system with humans on every rock. I want a diverse and rich setting element portraying all walks of Pact life from the humble space colonist tending his gas mining satellites over a Jovian world to the rich merchant in a city on the surface of some garden world and Helka-Alpha is it. That number is what I figure I need and I'm not going to budge from it, especially because its already been approved via the faction cover page. Lastly the Ersetu have a similar population count... so why is this an issue now that I've submitted something or have you had another PM convo with Frost I can't see?

In all this is what this factions assets are as of May 5th's faction page approval,

A population of 15,929,436,240.

6 Hospitable Planets

2 Habitable Planets

9 Atmospheric Terrestrials

3 Airless Terrestrials

2 Gas Giants

2 Ice Giants

And 7 Asteroid belts.

Its already been approved and this is just the fine details work, in this case creating a trinary star system with three varying levels of development, using Eve's security levels Alpha is Highsec.
 
I would also like to point out Frost wasn’t right here, and is largely just causing trouble. These same concerns aren’t being brought up when Elysia is expanding beyond its 0 player base. On top of that the Pact has more than enough players to meet the guidelines which anyone can quickly check by looking at their RP.

‘He’s right you know’ except anytime he posts in the NTSE, or tells players not to RP in chat.
I'd appreciate if slandering, especially when Wes comes in and even posts a meme about him being right, from you stop appearing in the NTSE. It's really just baseless lies compared to the fact that he RPs just as much/more so than Arieg. Pact also has just as many players as Elysia, AFAIK, due to the Elysian plot or two matching Pact in player count (plus future players). I actually believe it has more total players, without even having their intended plots launched. Just my observation, though, as someone who's a bit tired of the blatantly ridiculous ignoring of anything that validates opposition or criticism to submissions.

Edit: Also, when you guys complain literally any week he doesn't post? Of course he appears to only post when you raise concerns. You never shut up about it.
 
There are no active Elysian plots.

Arieg has an actively running plot with more RP posts than once a month.

Frost's post rate is ~1 a month on average.

The Pact has more active players due to those players actually RPing.

--

The problem right now is that Wes sees Frost posting a lot in the NTSE, and probably doesn't look all to closely because he thinks Frost is being helpful. The easy solution to this is to just hop in and point out everything Frost gets wrong. This is usually really easy as Frost doesn't seem to check the rules before posting, the latest example being not reading the military buildup limitations before making a post about how those limitations affect the IIS.
 
There are no active Elysian plots.

Arieg has an actively running plot with more RP posts than once a month.

Frost's post rate is ~1 a month on average.

The Pact has more active players due to those players actually RPing.

--

The problem right now is that Wes sees Frost posting a lot in the NTSE, and probably doesn't look all to closely because he thinks Frost is being helpful. The easy solution to this is to just hop in and point out everything Frost gets wrong. This is usually really easy as Frost doesn't seem to check the rules before posting, the latest example being not reading the military buildup limitations before making a post about how those limitations affect the IIS.
~1 a month? He's posted more like 2~ a month. 3, technically, AFAIK with his most recent. I also confirmed that there IS an active Elysian plot almost immediately via Ascension (which is small but a plot is a plot if we're to include a 3 or 4 man plot like the one Pact has which often ends up waiting for his one post a month).

I also wonder why you continue to imply that Wes simply doesn't know. This has been one of the most active periods of presence from @Wes in ages when it comes to reading and dropping into the NTSE. I feel like trying to act as if Wes doesn't know is simply absurd and really just a way to deny, again, the sheer amount of his increased presence as of late. Really, it's a way to deny that his input has value. And that, to me, is a bit alarming.
 
Anyways I believe I addressed the population issue, I'm not reading the posts of people I have on ignore.
 
The article used to detail that the system was "250 lightyears below" the Kikyo Sector. I know the final positioning moved it somewhat closer, but could you still include how far "below" the rest of the sector it is? Since it's clearly far away enough to generally not have been heard of IC until its OOC creation, it'd be nice to still have that perspective because "nestled closely against the Chen Nebula" doesn't really provide it.
 
After talking to Wes on Discord, I've gone ahead and looked this over to help with the workload. Addressing his concern regarding the population though, the high count is necessary to have a 'packed like sardines' feel similar to what Bladerunner has. Ultimately, the population is not a boon, but a liability if they can't be armed, fed and so forth in a war. The only real concern that I see here is the number of orbital platforms, but, this is meant to stand out in-character. The ratio of orbital platforms to planets is abnormal, and is one of several good reasons for SAINT to investigate in the ongoing plot from what I understand. Even then, according to the military buildup page, it's only a guideline that's not supposed to be strict. More importantly, we have a plot or two waiting on this, and it's best to expedite the article along.

For these reasons, I'll mark this as APPROVED
 
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