Jack Pine
Inactive Member
- Submission URL
- https://stararmy.com/wiki/doku.php?id=wip:species:hessarians
- Submission Faction(s)
- None (nebulas, etc.)
- Submission Terms
- I agree
Resubmitted for rascal
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Rejected Submission Hessarians
- Thread starter Jack Pine
- Start date
- Status
Charmaylarg Dufrain
🎖️ Game Master
This seems like a considerably OP species with no noticeable drawbacks.
Their skin resists energy weapons cause of oils, their jaws crush steel, They can hypothetically tear PA apart with their bare hands, they’re tall af, they devour all meat
They can naturally resist high caliber rounds.
they cant be burned, shot, cut, stabbed, or killed through blunt trauma almost. And can survive off eating just about anything like an invasive pest and can live for aparently forever.
all with an abundance of extra organs under an obscene amount of natural armor that makes them even harder to kill because they have 4 of each but only need one of each to survive.
Im not saying at all this species cant be accepted into SARP. But i am saying that it is clearly a super soldier species which we stopped accepting more of some time ago when every single faction started making their own. And it has no clear tradeoff for all these unkillable quirks that make it able to out-wrestle an aggressor, single handedly crush a mindy and shrug off everything from plasma to PA scale weapons with natural armor other that it is bad at space combat cause none of them can lead very well.
Their skin resists energy weapons cause of oils, their jaws crush steel, They can hypothetically tear PA apart with their bare hands, they’re tall af, they devour all meat
They can naturally resist high caliber rounds.
they cant be burned, shot, cut, stabbed, or killed through blunt trauma almost. And can survive off eating just about anything like an invasive pest and can live for aparently forever.
all with an abundance of extra organs under an obscene amount of natural armor that makes them even harder to kill because they have 4 of each but only need one of each to survive.
Im not saying at all this species cant be accepted into SARP. But i am saying that it is clearly a super soldier species which we stopped accepting more of some time ago when every single faction started making their own. And it has no clear tradeoff for all these unkillable quirks that make it able to out-wrestle an aggressor, single handedly crush a mindy and shrug off everything from plasma to PA scale weapons with natural armor other that it is bad at space combat cause none of them can lead very well.
Charmaylarg Dufrain
🎖️ Game Master
That may be so~
But its still me right as a community member to mention these things that are clearly setting breaking after a long series of arguments that have been had in the past that while there are only a few, There are too many super-soldier species in setting already and we should be focusing more on more immersive and realistic peoples.
Every new faction inevitably submits the following. And while rascaldees hasnt done all of these, Im pointing out in the past we have almost never for new factions and even sometimes existing ones allowed:
Faction exclusive super metals
Fleet/planet killing super weapons
Unique and clearly OP to the setting super soldiers
But its still me right as a community member to mention these things that are clearly setting breaking after a long series of arguments that have been had in the past that while there are only a few, There are too many super-soldier species in setting already and we should be focusing more on more immersive and realistic peoples.
Every new faction inevitably submits the following. And while rascaldees hasnt done all of these, Im pointing out in the past we have almost never for new factions and even sometimes existing ones allowed:
Faction exclusive super metals
Fleet/planet killing super weapons
Unique and clearly OP to the setting super soldiers
Just as a player how would I fight them? There 7 to 16 feet tall,resistant to small arms and plasma weapons , regenerate limbs in a few days, have a bite strength that can smash a Mindy all while living up to 10 thousand years?? 4 hearts 4 lungs and only needing one??? That's abit much. From the sounds of it there used as shocked troops and would require abit of ordance to clear out. Only down side is space combat that can be easily made up by other member special or tech? I think this should be scaled back abit cause they got a army of massive tanks.
Counter tactic:
Sustained fire
Orbital bombardment
Heavy ordinance (tanks, other such vehicles)
Also they're tough. Not invincible. Not being able to effectively fight in space means they have a huge disadvantage when it comes to a modern war. That's like the US not being able to fight in the air.
One on one these creatures are fuck off levels of tough. But in groups and formations, thinking outside the box and using new tactics and innovation, that's how the UCS won back home. These guys don't adapt well to new situations.
TLDR: Use the thing keeping your helmet on.
Sustained fire
Orbital bombardment
Heavy ordinance (tanks, other such vehicles)
Also they're tough. Not invincible. Not being able to effectively fight in space means they have a huge disadvantage when it comes to a modern war. That's like the US not being able to fight in the air.
One on one these creatures are fuck off levels of tough. But in groups and formations, thinking outside the box and using new tactics and innovation, that's how the UCS won back home. These guys don't adapt well to new situations.
TLDR: Use the thing keeping your helmet on.
club24
Everything Is Magical
How can you use your head when an army of flesh ripping lizards just swooped in and tore it off despite the fact i was sitting in a heavily armoured suit of walking badassery?
Jokes aside, your only "counter tactic" thats a valid argument is sustained fire, the other two are over the top for dealing with a baseline, unarmoured enemy, this reasoning alone shows that they are too strong and can be classified as super soldiers.
And as a couple of people pointed out, them not being able to fight in space isn't a draw back and neither is the leadership problem thanks to their involvement with your faction, as they will make up for those drawbacks very easily.
lets not start another fight immediately here, it looks clear that these creatures need a bit of tweaking, im not asking you to make them into soft snowflakes im simply looking at whats in front of me and how others have reacted and its clear that a discussion is required.
Jokes aside, your only "counter tactic" thats a valid argument is sustained fire, the other two are over the top for dealing with a baseline, unarmoured enemy, this reasoning alone shows that they are too strong and can be classified as super soldiers.
And as a couple of people pointed out, them not being able to fight in space isn't a draw back and neither is the leadership problem thanks to their involvement with your faction, as they will make up for those drawbacks very easily.
lets not start another fight immediately here, it looks clear that these creatures need a bit of tweaking, im not asking you to make them into soft snowflakes im simply looking at whats in front of me and how others have reacted and its clear that a discussion is required.
Charmaylarg Dufrain
🎖️ Game Master
In no sense is it acceptable in setting to have to bring an entire fire group, armor or even a ship just to kill a living being short of a gigamishu.
That is in no way tough. but in essence "overpowered."
This also isnt back home, Its not earth. The kikyo sectors factions has a clear technological and military advantage over the UCS. And that shouldn't be challenged by near invincible shock troops who, again, their only weakness is void combat.
The only ones in setting that can challenge a suit of powered armor are the mishu, and a full ID-SOL. And unless they get extremely lucky and catch the pilot unawares they too would become hamburger and a mess on the ground.
That is in no way tough. but in essence "overpowered."
This also isnt back home, Its not earth. The kikyo sectors factions has a clear technological and military advantage over the UCS. And that shouldn't be challenged by near invincible shock troops who, again, their only weakness is void combat.
The only ones in setting that can challenge a suit of powered armor are the mishu, and a full ID-SOL. And unless they get extremely lucky and catch the pilot unawares they too would become hamburger and a mess on the ground.
So what you're saying @Charmaylarg Dufrain is that these creatures threaten the IC balance of power and thusly they shouldn't be allowed in?
Sounds like a good plot hook to me.
@club24 My argument here is that a species unable to fight in space is a species easily contained: meaning they advance hard but if you cut them off from their ships you've essentially halted and invasion and contained it to a single planet.
Granted, them working with the UCS does make up for most of these problems but that is also the point of the UCS. I will note that what you guys have for power armor is also nothing like what the UCS has without serious modifications.
Their armor is light and manuverable while protective enough not to shrug off billions of bullets but enough to protect them so the soldier completes the mission. Then they can die.
That said, tweaking them is fine. But this is supposed to be a species of martial prowess that broight humanity to the brink of extinction. We as a species are good at a few things:
Finding things that are shiny
Blowing things up or shooting them
Innovation
War
With these common attributes given to us as a species, it's not very surprising to me that it would take a massive amount of force to nearly obliterate us whenever we become spacefaring.
I should also note though I cannot recall if the article says it: Hessarians don't use vehicles aside from spacecraft and very limited air support. It's dishonorable to them and a sin.
UCS? Sure. It's different. But we will run into that problem regardless of the species I bring in if that's the case because they will work together to overcome their short comings.
Sounds like a good plot hook to me.
@club24 My argument here is that a species unable to fight in space is a species easily contained: meaning they advance hard but if you cut them off from their ships you've essentially halted and invasion and contained it to a single planet.
Granted, them working with the UCS does make up for most of these problems but that is also the point of the UCS. I will note that what you guys have for power armor is also nothing like what the UCS has without serious modifications.
Their armor is light and manuverable while protective enough not to shrug off billions of bullets but enough to protect them so the soldier completes the mission. Then they can die.
That said, tweaking them is fine. But this is supposed to be a species of martial prowess that broight humanity to the brink of extinction. We as a species are good at a few things:
Finding things that are shiny
Blowing things up or shooting them
Innovation
War
With these common attributes given to us as a species, it's not very surprising to me that it would take a massive amount of force to nearly obliterate us whenever we become spacefaring.
I should also note though I cannot recall if the article says it: Hessarians don't use vehicles aside from spacecraft and very limited air support. It's dishonorable to them and a sin.
UCS? Sure. It's different. But we will run into that problem regardless of the species I bring in if that's the case because they will work together to overcome their short comings.
club24
Everything Is Magical
You’ve contradicted yourself in the same post, easily contained but also, shortcomings made up for by the faction. As for being an apex predator that brought mankind to its knees, that’s still not part of sarp history and can’t be used as a reasonable explanation for why they must be so strong as outlined in the guidelines.
You also cannot validate something with promises of certain in character restrictions, there’s a fair bit of reading in the guidelines.
Going back to that point again, the armour of the ucs isn’t related to this particular discussion as the issue lies with this specific species and the exact information on its page, this is how submissions are judged hence the rule about not justifying things with essentially ic promises which can be easily revoked. Its a rule everyone here has followed for years so i can assure you I’m not pulling it out for a special occasion or anything.
You also cannot validate something with promises of certain in character restrictions, there’s a fair bit of reading in the guidelines.
Going back to that point again, the armour of the ucs isn’t related to this particular discussion as the issue lies with this specific species and the exact information on its page, this is how submissions are judged hence the rule about not justifying things with essentially ic promises which can be easily revoked. Its a rule everyone here has followed for years so i can assure you I’m not pulling it out for a special occasion or anything.
Alright. If species similar to this already exist in canon SARP what's the problem with one more? None of the other species I am submitting are this warlike. If SARP can have three, why can't I have one?
Someone mentioned to me a while back about a big threat coming through from the UCS universe and engaging a whole new plot. Maybe this is just how that happens.
Someone mentioned to me a while back about a big threat coming through from the UCS universe and engaging a whole new plot. Maybe this is just how that happens.
club24
Everything Is Magical
Another point in the guidelines, you cant justify a submission by using old articles as reasoning. Sarp has had things added by many people over many years and as a result restrictions and rules have been put in place.
As for plots, still irrelevant to the current discussion and still not a justification. I don’t make the rules however i do stick by them, and I have no power to enforce them but i shall definitely write them out.
Honestly a quick fix in my opinion? Reduce their natural armour a bit, not necessarily remove just to the point that if they went up against trained soldiers, not super soldiers, they would actually lose numbers.
And probably reduce their bite power a little, as it is they may be able to bend steel with their mouth but the teeth are a different story, ripping limbs off with them however doesn’t require quite so much force.
As for plots, still irrelevant to the current discussion and still not a justification. I don’t make the rules however i do stick by them, and I have no power to enforce them but i shall definitely write them out.
Honestly a quick fix in my opinion? Reduce their natural armour a bit, not necessarily remove just to the point that if they went up against trained soldiers, not super soldiers, they would actually lose numbers.
And probably reduce their bite power a little, as it is they may be able to bend steel with their mouth but the teeth are a different story, ripping limbs off with them however doesn’t require quite so much force.
@SirSkully I am referring to the general SARP population.
@club24 They do lose quite often against regular soldiers. That's why I brought up UCS power armor. The UCS doesn't need super suits to defeat these guys. They just think outside the box.
Imagine an enemy that outpaces you on every front aside from numbers that threatens your extinction. Would you resort to biological warfare. Chemical warfare? Nuclear? Suddenly the rules of engagement are blurred at best.
@Jack Pine I'm fine with this. The idea was they are limiting their own populations with their petty infighting but I can see symbolism is a dead art here.
@club24 They do lose quite often against regular soldiers. That's why I brought up UCS power armor. The UCS doesn't need super suits to defeat these guys. They just think outside the box.
Imagine an enemy that outpaces you on every front aside from numbers that threatens your extinction. Would you resort to biological warfare. Chemical warfare? Nuclear? Suddenly the rules of engagement are blurred at best.
@Jack Pine I'm fine with this. The idea was they are limiting their own populations with their petty infighting but I can see symbolism is a dead art here.
club24
Everything Is Magical
Again i must refer to that history not being a part of sarp and therefore officially invalid. As a player and a gm i can respect what you’re trying to do with them honestly, however as they are now i most easily compare them to having the stats and threat level of a power armour unit with none of the requirements, and what if they were to put on poser armour as well? You cannot promise it won’t happen in future which is another aspect of the issue, if tgey were to wear power armour that further enhanced their mobility for example? Then its an even bigger problem.
As for the rules of engagement, thats still not justification due to their involvement with ucs. And subsequent access to technology greater than their own ability.
As for the rules of engagement, thats still not justification due to their involvement with ucs. And subsequent access to technology greater than their own ability.
Then it's an even bigger plot hook. Writing a story isn't about writing some glorious triumphant march to victory. Characters should know both great joy and grief before ever being allowed to be called scifi.
club24
Everything Is Magical
I’m sorry but that’s still not justification.
I have to go to bed as its late here, I suggest you think calmly about the situation and revise the page based on community suggestion, without starting a war and that goes for both you and anyone else who might see this as a dogpile opportunity.
I will say this though, within the confines of your own rp in your own faction you’re allowed to rp them a little stronger. Its a gm discretion, within reasonable limits. The issue with them this strong is due to if they interacted with other entities. Which again you cant promise they won’t do in the future.
I have to go to bed as its late here, I suggest you think calmly about the situation and revise the page based on community suggestion, without starting a war and that goes for both you and anyone else who might see this as a dogpile opportunity.
I will say this though, within the confines of your own rp in your own faction you’re allowed to rp them a little stronger. Its a gm discretion, within reasonable limits. The issue with them this strong is due to if they interacted with other entities. Which again you cant promise they won’t do in the future.
Given the amount of resistance I've had to deal with here and the number of people that seem ready to do practically anything in order to prevent a submission from being approved, as well as the fact that the website owner @Wes already approved aside from time on the website, I will not be modifying this species at all without Wes, Syaoran or Madi telling me that I need to do so.
Sorry. But too many people have been sandbagging everything I have submitted. So I've stopped caring.
Sorry. But too many people have been sandbagging everything I have submitted. So I've stopped caring.
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