Grey Library
Inactive Member
Just a random musing: What happened to the Rifters? What are they exactly doing within the Blue Rift Expanse? Are they still refugee communities or actually a hidden major interstellar power by now?
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FreeSpacers: Where are They Now?
- Thread starter Grey Library
- Start date
Moogle
Retired Member
From what I can tell, they're a bit neither, a bit both. I wouldn't say the Freespacers ever quite recovered from the slaughter at the Great Lighthouse, but they aren't exactly like what happened to the Batarians in Mass Effect 3. They're mostly in their own motherships or integrated into Nepleslian communities.
Currently IC, the Freespacers are in the midst of what's been called 'The Schism'. Before Sigma left, he had plans to do something with them, but left very little behind. However, in-character there was a great big in-person meet up with representatives from every major 'Spacer faction along with a fierce buzz of activity on Polysentience. While Sigma never got a chance to explain this before he left, I'm running with it now as 'Spacer FM. My intention is to create 'The Consensus', a collective decision to create a centralized government. Not a large one, as that would defeat some of the charming basic concepts in spacer society. Rather, an administrative organization whose only purpose is to police Free State holdings, arbitrate inter-Mothership disagreements, and hold a military presence strong enough to discourage a second attempt at any future genocides.
I've also decided that rudimentary diplomatic relations should begin with Yamatai. That is to say, peaceful assurances. The Freespacers have no reason to ever truly forgive the Empire for the near-destruction of their race; but no race can ever truly move past something like that so it's best to put it as close to an end as possible before any one else gets hurt or killed. I'm also not fond of OOC conflict or IC sabre-rattling so I'm trying to move away from Yamataian hostility as best I can. I've written more about this at length in the FM forums, which you can certainly view, @MissingNo -- and I think you'll find that I'm doing my best to uphold Strangelove's original vision. Of course, you're an older hand with the Spacers than I, so please feel free to comment and contribute to that conversation. In fact, I would more than welcome your input.
To go back to the specific details of @Grey Library 's inquiry, let me say that right now IC the Freespacers are still a Nepleslian protectorate. They are growing faster than they ever have since the Genocide, but right now things are still being ironed out with this 'Consensus'. Motherships are appearing in Nepleslian space with increasing frequency, and the old colonies are beginning to repopulate. 'Spacer Motherships are powerful industrial machines, efficiently mining more resources than they can use and turning those around on the Nepleslian market to purchase new ships, modules, and other means of growth. The free ships offered up as reparations in floating junkyards out in open space are disappearing fast. Nepleslian Military forces are training Freespacers to police their own space in hopes that they will soon be able to cut themselves loose and become not a protectorate, but a powerful economic ally. Anyone who looks around at the galactic scene will notice this subtle growth and experts on Freespacer society will no-doubt predict the rise of a new Free State in the coming months. The Blue Rift claimed Imperial battle fleets during the Draconian Wars and witnessed the wholesale slaughter of an entire race of mostly innocent people. It is a force of nature on neither side in conflicts of the galaxy, and the Freespacers will soon take up both it and its philosophy. They will reside within the expanse once more, and they will build a powerful neutral presence that like the Rift itself can weather the rushing tides of political strife and galactic unrest.
Yeah, basically, it's gonna be pretty sweet.
I've also decided that rudimentary diplomatic relations should begin with Yamatai. That is to say, peaceful assurances. The Freespacers have no reason to ever truly forgive the Empire for the near-destruction of their race; but no race can ever truly move past something like that so it's best to put it as close to an end as possible before any one else gets hurt or killed. I'm also not fond of OOC conflict or IC sabre-rattling so I'm trying to move away from Yamataian hostility as best I can. I've written more about this at length in the FM forums, which you can certainly view, @MissingNo -- and I think you'll find that I'm doing my best to uphold Strangelove's original vision. Of course, you're an older hand with the Spacers than I, so please feel free to comment and contribute to that conversation. In fact, I would more than welcome your input.
To go back to the specific details of @Grey Library 's inquiry, let me say that right now IC the Freespacers are still a Nepleslian protectorate. They are growing faster than they ever have since the Genocide, but right now things are still being ironed out with this 'Consensus'. Motherships are appearing in Nepleslian space with increasing frequency, and the old colonies are beginning to repopulate. 'Spacer Motherships are powerful industrial machines, efficiently mining more resources than they can use and turning those around on the Nepleslian market to purchase new ships, modules, and other means of growth. The free ships offered up as reparations in floating junkyards out in open space are disappearing fast. Nepleslian Military forces are training Freespacers to police their own space in hopes that they will soon be able to cut themselves loose and become not a protectorate, but a powerful economic ally. Anyone who looks around at the galactic scene will notice this subtle growth and experts on Freespacer society will no-doubt predict the rise of a new Free State in the coming months. The Blue Rift claimed Imperial battle fleets during the Draconian Wars and witnessed the wholesale slaughter of an entire race of mostly innocent people. It is a force of nature on neither side in conflicts of the galaxy, and the Freespacers will soon take up both it and its philosophy. They will reside within the expanse once more, and they will build a powerful neutral presence that like the Rift itself can weather the rushing tides of political strife and galactic unrest.
Yeah, basically, it's gonna be pretty sweet.
MissingNo
Inactive Member
I have been pondering the state throughout the day and, regardless of what has been going on, this is what I think will have happened. This conjecture is based on what I noted last time I checked up on them and still fits with what Lamb has posted...sorta.
I think, based on the peace talks I started RPing with Doshii a few years back and the various debacles that created pressure on the Free State to form a government that could be held accountable for its people, that there will be a Schism, but it won't be resolved by creating the Consensus. Not 100%.
Lamb, you can continue what you're doing. However, there can't be a complete agreement among the Freespacers on a central government. It's against their cultural grain to the extent that splinters will result. Not just the Prince (whatever the state of his group is), but it is the ingrained idea that every 'Spacer decides for themselves, so there will be 'Spacers leaving this area of space, or even remaining, but insisting on being unallied with the Consensus. Sure, you will have some -- majority or minority; due to 'Spacers being decentralized in the first place you'll never know for sure -- you will have some who will go along with the formation of the Consensus, but you'll always have some unknown number that refuse. Creating that sort of government, loose as it may be, goes against the doctrine of Never Again that forms the core of the Freespacer worldview.
The short form of this is that, while there may be a government formed by Free State members and may claim to represent the entirety of the Free State, it will not. Even though their culture has been diluted with the various cultures of this region of space, there will always be purists; there will always be the original sect of Freespacers. I worry that this fact will be lost, but I hope that it will not.
I think, based on the peace talks I started RPing with Doshii a few years back and the various debacles that created pressure on the Free State to form a government that could be held accountable for its people, that there will be a Schism, but it won't be resolved by creating the Consensus. Not 100%.
Lamb, you can continue what you're doing. However, there can't be a complete agreement among the Freespacers on a central government. It's against their cultural grain to the extent that splinters will result. Not just the Prince (whatever the state of his group is), but it is the ingrained idea that every 'Spacer decides for themselves, so there will be 'Spacers leaving this area of space, or even remaining, but insisting on being unallied with the Consensus. Sure, you will have some -- majority or minority; due to 'Spacers being decentralized in the first place you'll never know for sure -- you will have some who will go along with the formation of the Consensus, but you'll always have some unknown number that refuse. Creating that sort of government, loose as it may be, goes against the doctrine of Never Again that forms the core of the Freespacer worldview.
The short form of this is that, while there may be a government formed by Free State members and may claim to represent the entirety of the Free State, it will not. Even though their culture has been diluted with the various cultures of this region of space, there will always be purists; there will always be the original sect of Freespacers. I worry that this fact will be lost, but I hope that it will not.
Sounds good, Lamb: Yamatai showed some remorse after the attack, doing things like the free ships hulls, rebuilding the Great Lighthouse, offering a planet to the Freespacers (they left it) and other things, so it should be clear that Yamatai would to have peaceful relations. Peace with Yamatai is achieved through two factors: The threat against Yamatai needs to be low, and Yamatai's trust in the Freespacers needs to be higher. Having some sort of Freespacer "government" body that can offer reassurancesm or better yet, a peace treaty, to Yamatai's government and military would be huge.
Missingno is right, and I hope the original peaceful Freespacer hippies never go away. And you don't need the support of all Freespacers to make a Freespacer government. That would be like saying, for example, that the Japanese government must represent all Japanese people. There's tons of Japanese in Brazil and the United States who don't have citizenship in Japan. Likewise, in Star Army there are millions of Nepleslians who are not represented by the Democratic Imperium of Nepleslia, because they live in Yamatai or elsewhere in space. So if the "main" Freespacer government, the Consensus, doesn't represent all Freespacers, that's entirely realistic and okay.
Missingno is right, and I hope the original peaceful Freespacer hippies never go away. And you don't need the support of all Freespacers to make a Freespacer government. That would be like saying, for example, that the Japanese government must represent all Japanese people. There's tons of Japanese in Brazil and the United States who don't have citizenship in Japan. Likewise, in Star Army there are millions of Nepleslians who are not represented by the Democratic Imperium of Nepleslia, because they live in Yamatai or elsewhere in space. So if the "main" Freespacer government, the Consensus, doesn't represent all Freespacers, that's entirely realistic and okay.
Aendri
Inactive Member
Neither of those is really good examples of what Missing is talking about though, Wes. With the Freespacers, there will be individuals on ships who will reject the authority of an central government. And that would be completely normal for them. It's not just 'spacers living elsewhere, or choosing to leave rather than be a part of it, it's a group that has always held nobody should be forced to go along with it if they don't want to. This is like a random guy in Tennessee deciding the federal government can't tell him what to do, and the government going "Okay, fair enough."
It sounds like this will need to be done on a per-ship basis. If a mothership is part of the Freespacer Consensus, its members will be expected to abide by the Consensus laws and treaties. Freespacers who disagree would have to go to other motherships. It's kind of like how if you live in California, you're subject to California and US Federal laws no matter what you think of them. But if you emmigrate to another country, you're no longer subject to those laws. The Freespacers have "territory" (ships and planets) just like any other faction. Whoever controls those controls the faction.
Now that I'm at home for an hour or two before dashing back off to handle another job (#JustCourierThings), I can take a moment to clarify some of what I mean.
Let me highlight one of the first things I said: "...Rather, an administrative organization whose only purpose is to police Free State holdings, arbitrate inter-Mothership disagreements, and hold a military presence strong enough to discourage a second attempt at any future genocides. "
When I say that it's their only purpose, I quite literally mean that. As things have always been within the Free State, things that occur on a Mothership are dealt with by that population and only they. Communities will continue to be the essence of Freespacer culture. This is not something the government needs to or intends to touch. However, government vessels will destroy pirates attacking 'Spacers anywhere in their jurisdiction. They will not collect taxes, but rather moderate their own infrastructure with a State-run economy. They will not enforce laws on individuals or require customs inspections or tariffs. These sorts of things are not a concern for most 'Spacers. They never really have been. This 'government' is really only going to cause trouble with the true anarchists on an occasion where two ships have a disagreement and one does not subscribe to the Consensus. Nonetheless, it is an inoffensive force to its denizens, and won't be anytime soon damaging other 'Spacer vessels.
Let me say it again: This government's objective is mainly to police and protect from within. To decry this government would be either to decry an entity one never interacts with or to shout out to a police officer while a criminal beats you over the head that he mustn't protect you because you don't recognize his authority.
I am not going to take the small hint of Communistic ideas found in Freespacer culture and use that to turn an entire people overnight into a uniform socialist machine with uniforms and a Glorious Leader and a ban on the production of any new non-Type I or II citizens-- despite what the conspiracy theorists say.
Let me highlight one of the first things I said: "...Rather, an administrative organization whose only purpose is to police Free State holdings, arbitrate inter-Mothership disagreements, and hold a military presence strong enough to discourage a second attempt at any future genocides. "
When I say that it's their only purpose, I quite literally mean that. As things have always been within the Free State, things that occur on a Mothership are dealt with by that population and only they. Communities will continue to be the essence of Freespacer culture. This is not something the government needs to or intends to touch. However, government vessels will destroy pirates attacking 'Spacers anywhere in their jurisdiction. They will not collect taxes, but rather moderate their own infrastructure with a State-run economy. They will not enforce laws on individuals or require customs inspections or tariffs. These sorts of things are not a concern for most 'Spacers. They never really have been. This 'government' is really only going to cause trouble with the true anarchists on an occasion where two ships have a disagreement and one does not subscribe to the Consensus. Nonetheless, it is an inoffensive force to its denizens, and won't be anytime soon damaging other 'Spacer vessels.
Let me say it again: This government's objective is mainly to police and protect from within. To decry this government would be either to decry an entity one never interacts with or to shout out to a police officer while a criminal beats you over the head that he mustn't protect you because you don't recognize his authority.
I am not going to take the small hint of Communistic ideas found in Freespacer culture and use that to turn an entire people overnight into a uniform socialist machine with uniforms and a Glorious Leader and a ban on the production of any new non-Type I or II citizens-- despite what the conspiracy theorists say.
MissingNo
Inactive Member
I read what you wrote, Lamb, and I'm saying that the Freespacers have never needed that sort of organization. In fact, their primary doctrine rejects it. The Polysentience takes care of everything a government normally would because it can do what any other goverment can't: get a literal vote from everyone who cares about a topic and, in the case of a dispute between ships, be a place where an "Arbitor Wanted" post would find a near-instant reply from a neutral party. Honesty is the best policy because deceit could cost lives for a Freespacer community.
This is where the divide comes in, however, and why I can see the Consensus forming among some ships and colonies. The Freespacers now have access to much more in the way of materials and technology than they ever have, and that is going to throw their famine-based supply rationing system for a loop. They suddenly have contact with nearly a dozen (possible over/underestimation) species with various governing bodies...these governments want someone to serve as the "Face" of the Free State, but also as a scapegoat if they feel any 'Spacers step on their toes. (I created The Envoy to serve as such while utilizing the Polysentience's democratic ability, and even though that kinda fell through - due to various circumstances irrelevant - it is still an option.) In short, the new generation of recovering 'spacers might find the new, shiney ideas from these new species attractive, the feeling of safety from another Genocide comforting, and the idea of allies when all they have known is the void and their own kind for generations as a defense against species loneliness.
Technically, the Never Again philosophy probably demands they leave this section of space and jump back into the uninhabited black, never looking back. That, of course, makes for poor RP, but it would mean the Genocide would happen Never Again. If I recall, a chunk of Freespacers did leave as soon as ships were repaired and supplies were available. So there will always be Freespacers for Strangelove and Della to come back to and bring back. I just ask that the Consensus never claim or attempt to enforce its power over the Freespacers who will undoubtedly reject its authority, or a civil war will erupt. And in the meantime, the other governments will just have to be understanding of these quirks or tell the Freespacers who don't fall in line with Consensus to respect each government's jurisdiction and either follow Wheaton's Law or GTHO.
Doshii, there have never been taxes among Freespacers. Each ship cares for its own and supports itself, extending aid to other ships as they can afford to from their own stores.
Being as it is late here and I'm posting mobile, this post may have wandered a bit and I'll edit or try to clarify my points tomorrow. Essentially: 'Spacer philosphy rejects governments, even administrative, because it's not needed because Polysentience. But because of plentiful resources, promised protection, and friendly species, SOME 'Spacers may play ball and depart from the Never Again philosophy in return for supplies, safety, and a-word-for-friends-that-starts-with-S. But many won't, and that's okay.
This is where the divide comes in, however, and why I can see the Consensus forming among some ships and colonies. The Freespacers now have access to much more in the way of materials and technology than they ever have, and that is going to throw their famine-based supply rationing system for a loop. They suddenly have contact with nearly a dozen (possible over/underestimation) species with various governing bodies...these governments want someone to serve as the "Face" of the Free State, but also as a scapegoat if they feel any 'Spacers step on their toes. (I created The Envoy to serve as such while utilizing the Polysentience's democratic ability, and even though that kinda fell through - due to various circumstances irrelevant - it is still an option.) In short, the new generation of recovering 'spacers might find the new, shiney ideas from these new species attractive, the feeling of safety from another Genocide comforting, and the idea of allies when all they have known is the void and their own kind for generations as a defense against species loneliness.
Technically, the Never Again philosophy probably demands they leave this section of space and jump back into the uninhabited black, never looking back. That, of course, makes for poor RP, but it would mean the Genocide would happen Never Again. If I recall, a chunk of Freespacers did leave as soon as ships were repaired and supplies were available. So there will always be Freespacers for Strangelove and Della to come back to and bring back. I just ask that the Consensus never claim or attempt to enforce its power over the Freespacers who will undoubtedly reject its authority, or a civil war will erupt. And in the meantime, the other governments will just have to be understanding of these quirks or tell the Freespacers who don't fall in line with Consensus to respect each government's jurisdiction and either follow Wheaton's Law or GTHO.
Doshii, there have never been taxes among Freespacers. Each ship cares for its own and supports itself, extending aid to other ships as they can afford to from their own stores.
Being as it is late here and I'm posting mobile, this post may have wandered a bit and I'll edit or try to clarify my points tomorrow. Essentially: 'Spacer philosphy rejects governments, even administrative, because it's not needed because Polysentience. But because of plentiful resources, promised protection, and friendly species, SOME 'Spacers may play ball and depart from the Never Again philosophy in return for supplies, safety, and a-word-for-friends-that-starts-with-S. But many won't, and that's okay.
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Amaryllis
Inactive Member
I know saying this'll probably make me look like everyone's favourite super evil super villain but I gotta say good thing Lamb was elected Freespacer FM so he doesn't have to worry much about disagreements. From what I've heard him say I'm pretty sure he gets exactly what you mean. All he probably wants is a structure he can actually write about instead of saying faceless masses agree to do certain things. Who says his government wouldn't be made of the most popular clans and be more democratic than any government we have today? It could always be said this government was formed by Nepleslia simply choosing people based on apparent credentials to hand out benefits and provide information/organization and if Spacers didn't at least nominally follow rules/acknowledge authority they wouldn't get any sick free stuff. I doubt he plans on having his government force anyone to do anything other than to force people to do things to get things. Like if someone wants his allotment of free stuff he has to pick it up himself in person and he has to let himself be counted to avoid fraud.
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Koenig808
Inactive Member
Lamb is the continuation of a policy where the DIoN, acting IC and OOCly as the Free State's partner in a protectorate, made it a personal mission to bring the faction back. This started with Sigma and I feel that it is accelerating under Lamb, as he was the first person I thought to be completely appropriate to head a Freespacer plot. Thus I want to make an official clarification that the faction itself, while it was handled under different hands before Sigma and Lamb, was still neglected due to inactivity by it's FMs (through no fault of their own) and that it was imperative to bring this unique faction back. If Lamb wishes to take them in what I view to be a slightly different but still recognizable direction, I would say that his role as the FM allows him to do so, regardless of any notions otherwise.
Agreed. The only way progress gets made with factions after they change hands is if the new faction manager really gets in there and takes ownership.
Basically, to use a car analogy: once you're behind the wheel, you're allowed (and expected) to turn the wheel.
Basically, to use a car analogy: once you're behind the wheel, you're allowed (and expected) to turn the wheel.
MissingNo
Inactive Member
This discussion has gone completely off the rails from what I originally intended when I made my second post in this thread.
It was intended simply as a caution against a possibility that I saw might happen from what Lamb described (which has been explained in better detail to me) and people have taken my request for caution as a full-on opposition to Lamb's proposal. It was not.
Lamb and I discussed this more in-depth last night and are going to continue that conversation until he feels comfortable with what is going on, but he is the one in charge of the Freespacer faction. And, as of the end of the conversation last night, no one in this thread outside of the two of us (unless he has talked to others about that conversation) have any real information on how the situation has developed since my last post. In light of that, I hereby request -- in the interests of keeping the peace among players -- that this thread be locked, or at least restricted to replies from Grey, Lamb, and maybe myself.
Thank you.
P.S. I know the idea behind the "Like" function is benign, but I would also kindly ask that no one like my posts anymore. If you like something I posted, I would prefer a direct compliment or discussion via PM or chat rather than a click. Thanks : )
It was intended simply as a caution against a possibility that I saw might happen from what Lamb described (which has been explained in better detail to me) and people have taken my request for caution as a full-on opposition to Lamb's proposal. It was not.
Lamb and I discussed this more in-depth last night and are going to continue that conversation until he feels comfortable with what is going on, but he is the one in charge of the Freespacer faction. And, as of the end of the conversation last night, no one in this thread outside of the two of us (unless he has talked to others about that conversation) have any real information on how the situation has developed since my last post. In light of that, I hereby request -- in the interests of keeping the peace among players -- that this thread be locked, or at least restricted to replies from Grey, Lamb, and maybe myself.
Thank you.
P.S. I know the idea behind the "Like" function is benign, but I would also kindly ask that no one like my posts anymore. If you like something I posted, I would prefer a direct compliment or discussion via PM or chat rather than a click. Thanks : )
Actually, I'd like to come in and ask that this thread be locked and tossed away to a dark corner somewhere in either case because it became less of an answer to Grey Library's question and more of a discussion that should've been in the Faction Planning thread and not out here.
@Grey Library , if you'd like to ask any questions about the Freespacers, I welcome it and will gladly help you out. PM me or catch me on IRC, and I'll gladly tell you as much as your want about our favorite wired friends.
@Grey Library , if you'd like to ask any questions about the Freespacers, I welcome it and will gladly help you out. PM me or catch me on IRC, and I'll gladly tell you as much as your want about our favorite wired friends.
Grey Library
Inactive Member
My apologies for broaching this topic and abruptly going silent, perhaps I should have cut this off before it spiraled out of control. Thus, @Lamb, I would like to end this off with a small list of simple clarifications.
Answers only please, no further debating is requested as I'll be submitting a request for the lock on this thread very soon.
-Freespacers either live within Nepleslian space as gypsy super-convoys or out in the Blue Rift Expanse.
-Status of Rifters remain unknown, possibly seclusionist.
-No solid government as of now.
This should be enough to put this topic to rest.
Answers only please, no further debating is requested as I'll be submitting a request for the lock on this thread very soon.
-Freespacers either live within Nepleslian space as gypsy super-convoys or out in the Blue Rift Expanse.
-Status of Rifters remain unknown, possibly seclusionist.
-No solid government as of now.
This should be enough to put this topic to rest.
