SAINT Operative Conditioning

[Sean_ODuibher]

SAINT Standard Conditioning Package

I have been working on this submission for a while now. Well, really, I haven’t changed much but did discuss the concept a great deal with other players with SAINT PCs on the Genei. At any rate, I’ve decided now is the time to bare myself to the merciless criticisms of those found in this forum. The discussion linked to above does contain a lot of extra explanations I made in order to clarify some points made about the article. However, I haven’t been able to distill the explanations down into a useful expansion to the article as is. Essentially, the article is a little vague, but intentionally so; as more a game mechanic than piece of technology, I wanted to leave things open to interpretation. At the same time, I don’t want the descriptions so vague that no one ever makes an Operative PC again for fear of their heads spontaneously melting. But all that aside, have at it.

 

[Wes]

all operatives undergo a superficially benign procedure, typically in the course of standard medical examination. While rendered unconscious, the operatives are introduced to rapid and compressed cognitive and physiological manipulation in order to impart the required imperatives.

This part needs to be changed. Yamatai wouldn't deceive its own troops like that...they'd be informed what they're in for in advance and would have to volunteer.

 

[mizunoyoroko]

I don't know if I agree wes. Even so, you're in charge of Yamatai. I would say this though, if an intelligence agency had access to this kind of stuff I'd make it required and standard. Meaning no treatment, no SAINT for you. In the fields of intelligence and counter-intelligence you don't have the luxury of being idealistic. Heck, I'd imagine there is a whole branch of SAINT dedicated to reducing the chances that if something is breached (be it computer or other) information loss is minimized. This is a great minimizer. Combined with ST technology the 'loss' here is minimal, the memories of one agent from after their last backup as opposed to potentially devastating secrets being leaked.

Not only does this increase the agent's ability to withstand torture, it increases their ability to escape capture, if they are unable to do so and become overloaded psychologicaly (due to a combination of psychological and physical stressors) then it puts them into a coma to 'ease their pain'. All of that failing, if the information may in some way still be leaked out, either by direct download from the brain or manipulation of the captive then it can perform the last ditch 'meltdown' option.

I can't see an intelligence agency that would turn this down. This would be mandatory.

edit: Also, I would doubt that they outright tell outsiders what it does either. The people that join SAINT probably sign a very broad waiver that is clear that if they sign it they are stuck with it. They probably aren't filled in on the specifics of what exactly they are signing up for.

I _____ hereby sign my rights as a citizen of the Star Empire of Yamatai away for the duration of ____ during which I will be in the service of Star Army Intelligence (SAINT). I understand that there are heavy implications surrounding this agreement, those implications include but are not limited to: the modification of my ST backups, the modification of my body, the...(etc.)

Signed ____________________ Date______________

A bit vague and just an example but you get the idea.

 

[Sean_ODuibher]

I do have to agree with Yoroko that this would make more sense being both mandatory and played fairly close to the chest. At the same time, I did not mean to imply in the article that SAINT plays around in their operatives’ heads without telling them about it, though in retrospect I can see how my chosen descriptors might have lent themselves to that interpretation. The idea of a general waiver, perhaps in conjunction with some sort of non-disclosure agreement, is both realistic and does provide for an element of informed consent without the abilities of the conditioning package being widely distributed, even among the perhaps more select group of SAINT applicants. Either way I’ve rewritten the opening text to make it clear that it’s not a secret, un-consented to procedure.

 

[Cora]

all operatives undergo a superficially benign procedure, typically in the course of standard medical examination. While rendered unconscious, the operatives are introduced to rapid and compressed cognitive and physiological manipulation in order to impart the required imperatives.

This part needs to be changed. Yamatai wouldn't deceive its own troops like that...they'd be informed what they're in for in advance and would have to volunteer.

*Looks back at the Yamataian military history, and several of their Black Opps actions*

*Opens his mouth... Then shuts it and leaves*

 

[Sean_ODuibher]

As I'm sure you've seen, I've created and submitted an article for SAINT Training that addresses some of the issues of consent mentioned in this discussion, specifically with the sub-article about a waiver as Yoroko suggested.

 

[mizunoyoroko]

Good job Sean, this looks good. Any word from upstairs?

 

[Sean_ODuibher]

It's been three weeks since this submission last saw attention. There isn't a pressing need for its approval, but I would like to know if there is a timeline for its review.

 

[Wes]

The part I asked you to change has not been changed. I will continue to ignore this submission until you stop ignoring my request.

 

[Sean_ODuibher]

I'm afraid I don't understand how I've ignored the change you requested. In your post you said:

Yamatai wouldn't deceive its own troops like that... they'd be informed what they're in for in advance and would have to volunteer.

I replied explaining both that the original intent of the article had not been to that effect and that I would rewrite the opening text to clarify the meaning. The opening now reads:

Upon entering SAINT and passing through the primary indoctrination course, which requires consenting to conditioning, all operatives undergo a superficially benign procedure, typically in the course of a standard medical examination.

Moreover, the informed nature of the procedure is mentioned in the Training page where it says:

Before officially becoming operatives, candidates are required to sign a waiver for a medical procedure. The procedure serves both to allow for the Standard Conditioning Package to be implanted and to insure that no serious but previously undetected injuries were sustained during the training.

Unless the issue is other than what I am dealing with here, I cannot see how I have not made the changes needed to address the problem, let alone ignored it in the first place. That said, if I am misunderstanding what it is you are concerned about or if there is some other topic that needs addressing, I would be glad to deal with it promptly.

 

[Sean_ODuibher]

It has been pointed out to me recently that the offending phrase is “a superficially benign procedure.” As I have made clear before, in context with the whole sentence, it is clear that the procedure is not a secret one forced upon operatives without their consent; again, the text refers specifically to the fact that operatives must provide consent prior to the procedure. However, I suppose this is a misunderstanding over the phrase. I described the procedure as “superficially benign” because it is; the neurological manipulation is non-invasive, there is no cutting, no incisions, no direct alteration to the brain. Now, I am happy to change the phrase, and indeed have already done as much, to resolve any confusion on the issue, such that the article now reads:

Upon entering SAINT and passing through the primary indoctrination course, which requires consenting to conditioning, all operatives undergo a non-invasive neurological procedure, typically in the course of a standard medical examination.

I hope this resolves any issues with this article; at the very least, no other issues have been pointed out at this time. In any event, I would like to repeat my earlier statement that I am perfectly happy to promptly correct or address any other problems with this article.

 

[Wes]

APPROVED

 

[Ethereal]

Added approval information
https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=stararmy:saint_conditioning