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Rejected Submission [Yamatai] Ke-M2/12-W3900 Charged Aether Rifle

Immortal Cyan

The Cyan Neko
Submission Type: Weapon
Template Used: Weapon Template
Submission WIP URL: https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=wip:stararmy:weapons:ke-m2:12-w3900_charged_aether_rifle
Submission Destination URL: https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=stararmy:weapons:ke-m2:12-w3900_charged_aether_rifle

Faction: Yamatai
FM Approved Yet? (Yes/No; Who, When) No, @Wes
Faction requires art? (Yes/No) No

For Reviewers:
Contains Unapproved Sub-Articles? (Yes/No) No
Contains New art? (Yes/No) Yes, Thanks @Arieg!
Previously Submitted? (Yes/No; explain reason if rejected) No

Notes: Charge Rifle!

Thanks to Arieg for the Art!

There is a Kirie and Keiko variant for @Toshiro. Please comment below if you have any changes you would like made for that variant.
 
This suggestion has been closed. Votes are no longer accepted.
I like this very much! It's a nice idea to have something a bit stronger for other factions' fighters and mecha, and also very nice to see new weaponry for the Kirie/Keiko...

That is also excellent art.
 
You need text underneath every new main header, even things like Other need it before you start a bullet list, put an image, or a chart up. Do you want me to go through the article and put FIXME on the parts that need text or should I do something with screenshots of the article in photoshop?
 
You need text underneath every new main header, even things like Other need it before you start a bullet list, put an image, or a chart up. Do you want me to go through the article and put FIXME on the parts that need text or should I do something with screenshots of the article in photoshop?

Hmmm...I think that if you put "FIX ME" under the headers in the article itself that need text, that would work. Thanks Ame!
 
I added FIXME's all over just add a sentence or two about what will be found below the header.

Please put the description of the appearance of the gun above the picture of it, as well, as per the text under most headers rule.
 
I never gave FM permission for this submission.

Why was it approved?
 
I myself have reservations about the charge time versus the amount of damage dealt.

At a maximum charge time of 1.5 second to possibly destroy in a single hit something like a Nodachi fighter, this strikes me on the extreme side of overpowered.

I'm not adverse to the concept of the weapon, which seems like a kind of squad support weapon. But it's portable, only requires a single power infantry unit to operate, can possibly be teleported along with the Mindy depending on payload and can, without that much of a drawback, punch much, much higher than its weight. The cooldown is also amazingly low, there's just no drawback to this extremely potent weapon except that it's not ideal for a firefight... just like a sniper rifle is. Since its an energy weapon, it doesn't seem to have the ammo-related limitations a bazooka would have.

If this remains approved in its current state, it significantly obsolesces a lot of Mindy handhelds (I don't have sufficient context on the end of the Kyrie).

My suggestion:
- increase the charge time of the weapon.
- increase the cooldown of the weapon and make it proportionate to the charge.
- For convenience, the weapon can likely hold its charge. If the charge is to be held, how long? Why can't it be held longer? That probably has something to do with heat, and might increase the cooldown time after firing.

Of the top of my head, I'd think a x10 total increase in firing-rate starts to sound reasonable. I italicized 'total' because it doesn't have to come up front just for the initial charge, it could be x5 charge, x5 cooldown.

(if this was somekind of plasma rifle that could charge up just one step, I wouldn't recommend something like x10, probably more like x3 on that initial charge- enough to be less advantageous than firing an equivalent number of normal shots, but with the advantage of a strong opener/initial damage spike with higher penetrating power in order to more effectively threaten bigger targets. That'd be less extreme, so, I'd consider the heat to be less of an issue).
 
For the time being, I'll move this back to the setting submissions. Once things are hammered out though, I'll move it back into the Approved section.
 
For reference, a Kirie is two steps above a Mindy in base Tier. If this weapon is considered by the setting to be overpowered for the Mindy, it isn't the same story for the Kirie. The Kirie can also convey more power through its limbs than the Mindy even taking into consideration its size, since it lacks the issue of having physical limbs of a pilot in its construction...which might shorten charging time if using the Kirie's generator, but not impact cooldown time.
 
The problem is that it's too much firepower to put in such a small package. For some context, this would be able to pierce and destroy a Ravager in a single shot, provided the energy shields are down. Usually, when trying to make things more portable, there's some sort of downside in exchange, but that isn't here. Talking to Immortal though, I suggested something like an expendable heatsink system. Let's wait and see what she comes up with.
 
I have lowered the T8 charge time down to 2 seconds and increased the T8 Cooldown time to .75 Seconds. This should lower the T8 ROF to 21 RPM on the M2 Variant. For the M12 Variant, T9 charge time is also down to 2 seconds and the cooldown time was increased to .75 seconds, effectively lowering T9 ROF to 21 RPM.

Decimal DRv3 values have been added to account for the change.
 
I have lowered the T8 charge time down to 2 seconds and increased the T8 Cooldown time to .75 Seconds. This should lower the T8 ROF to 21 RPM on the M2 Variant. For the M12 Variant, T9 charge time is also down to 2 seconds and the cooldown time was increased to .75 seconds, effectively lowering T9 ROF to 21 RPM.

Decimal DRv3 values have been added to account for the change.

Not to be rude or anything, but as far as I know DRv3 - like DRv2 and DRv1 - was never meant to have decimal values.
 
Might I suggest rounding the decimal values up or down to the nearest whole number?

Edit: Not trying to be, uh, "condescending" (for lack of a better term) or anything >.<

The values are already rounded in the wording. Tier 7.75 rounds up to "Medium Anti-Mecha" and Tier 7.25 rounds down to "Light Anti-Mecha". The numbers are there just to more precisely convey the information.
 
Wow. My message didn't get across.

Cyan, let's say that we take your .75 second charge and your .25 second cooldown as a baseline against your baseline damage, Heavy Anti-Armor.

On a barrier, that does 50% damage on a same tier target. So, where barriers are concerned, your gun does 50% barrier damage a second. So, it'd take 2 seconds to fire 2 shots (and be ready to fire the next) and you'll have caused 100% barrier damage.

But, you can charge briefly (+33% of your normal rate of charge), you do twice the damage. In 2.5 seconds, you can fire charged shots and cause a total of 200% barrier damage.

To compound that, you can charge to maximum and cause 150% barrier damage. Your gun is stronger when we charge to maximum in any amount of times than it would be firing normally.

And that's not to mention how you easily gain access to higher tiers of damage too. Charge .25 second longer, and you can core an unbarriered light mecha rather than just seriously damage it. Charge 1.25 second longer, and to can popcorn a shuttlecraft like the Kuma. This is greatly significant.

In the first place, I think your charge times and cooldown times are too low. But there's actually no sacrifice to your charge time. Not only do you get a spike in damage, but it's even more effective than firing normally.

In the first place, your charge times should be consistent with the amounts of normal shots you can fire. Secondly, since charging carries the advantage of greater penetration on top of extra damage, charging should be slightly less advantageous in terms of raw damage to your baseline.

Example:
Tier 6 weapon on Tier 6 target -
1st shot, Lethal or 50% barrier damage, 0.75 second charge, 0.25 cooldown (1 second total)
2nd shot, Lethal or 50% barrier damage, 0.75 second charge, 0.25 cooldown (2 seconds total)
3rd shot, Lethal or 50% barrier damage, 0.75 second charge, 0.25 cooldown (3 second total)

In 3 seconds, I do 150% barrier damage to something at same tier. Given that, I feel fairly secure with the idea that I could have a charged shot, that'd take 2.25 seconds to charge, that would cause the equivalent of 100% barrier damage. Since it's essentially a bigger heat spike, I'd round up the charge time to 3 seconds (taking slightly longer to gather energy to avoid overclocking the hardware too harshly). I'd make the cooldown double what single shots would be.

Tier 7 weapon on Tier 6 target -
Charged Shot, Quite Lethal or 100% barrier damage, 3 second charge, 1.5 seconds cooldown (4.5 seconds total)

This way, you retain the usefulness of your normal shot and apply a reasonable price to your charged shot. For instance, your normal shots are better in open battle, your charge shot better in battles where you have cover.

It could be a similar process for determining the maximum charge. It's pretty much the same process.

Tier 7 weapon on Tier 6 target -
1st Charged Shot, Quite Lethal or 100% barrier damage, 3 second charge, 1.5 seconds cooldown (4.5 seconds total)
2nd Charged Shot, Quite Lethal or 100% barrier damage, 3 second charge, 1.5 seconds cooldown (9 seconds total)
3rd Charged Shot, Quite Lethal or 100% barrier damage, 3 second charge, 1.5 seconds cooldown (13.5 seconds total)

So, I could pinpoint this 'maximum charge' attack would do 150% damage against barrier and it could take 9 seconds to charge, 4.5 to cooldown. I'd probably round both up to 10 seconds charge and 5 seconds cooldown to play on 'safer factory specs'.

Tier 8 weapon on Tier 6 target -
Super Charged Shot, Highly destructive or 150% barrier damage, 10 second charge, 5 seconds cooldown (15 seconds total)

* * *

You may not find my values generous. That's because I find yours to be a tad on the 'ridiculously low' side. Going for a straight x3 without any extra judgment calls on my part, your weapon would still look like this:

Tier 6 weapon on Tier 6 target -
  • Normal shot, Lethal or 50% barrier damage against Heavy Armor; 0.75 second charge, 0.25 cooldown (1 second total)
  • Charged Shot, Quite Lethal or 100% barrier damage against Heavy Armor; 2.25 second charge, 0.75 seconds cooldown (3 seconds total)
  • Super Charged Shot, Highly destructive or 150% barrier damage against Heavy Armor, 6.75 second charge, 2.25 seconds cooldown (9 seconds total)
* * *

Finally, I concur with Frostjaeger. You shouldn't be showing decimal DRv3 values, even if you consider that they round up. Your focus needs to be showing at which amount of seconds a complete tier is reached.
 
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Besides changes to the charge time, what do you think about having the weapon need to use disposable heatsinks in order to fire the charge shot Fred? Currently, even with your suggested changes, the weapon can still basically do a charge shot whenever cooldown time permits. A person with this will basically use it as much as possible, wherever possible, making it still very potent over time. If it's use is limited by something like heatsinks, this would make the user have to pick and choose targets carefully, correct? I even note that there's a magazine-like object on the gun that's currently not in use. With just a few sentences, that could be a fully contained heatsink.
 
RPG-D RPGfix
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