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[Aeonic] P4 Stinger Pistol

Scot

Inactive Member
https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=ae ... nformation

This is my first attempt at a SARP weapon, please be detailed so I can understand what I may be able to do in the future.

This if anything is a prototype that was used then replaced by a superior design soon after release.

Art- Not sure if I should, if this works, I'll set to work on it's second design which I will attempt to create art for, which probably get much more use than this weapon.
 
A few thoughts. First, the round seems very oddly sized. At 2 inches long and 1 inch in diameter, the bullet alone is bigger than the .50 Action Express, case included, which is one of the largest pistol rounds in the real world. Further, a 2 inch bullet in a 3 in barrel would gain essentially nothing in ballistic stability. With 800 FPS muzzle velocity, it just would not be in there long enough. Moreover, having a curve in the projectile would make the round tumble like nobody's business. Now, a 1x2 inch projectile traveling at 800 FPS is going to go a long way, a lot longer than the 20 meters you listed, but with that curve and no ballistic stability its accurate/effective range is going to be way smaller, again a lot shorter than 20 meters. Projectiles, and even more-so ones without the benefit of being spun by rifling in a barrel, require symmetry for stable ballistic flight.

And frankly, it's even a little hard to believe it actually gets to 800 FPS, because you describe the gun as having essentially no recoil. Recoil is purely a function of Newtonian physics; propelling a 1x2 inch projectile to 800 FPS is going to require a lot of force, force which will also push backwards as recoil. The alternative is for the round to be extremely light. In this case, the round either would fragment almost immediately from the force of the firing or it would shatter on impact; at the very least it would do almost no harm to anyone or anything it hit. And even if we chalk up the recoil to being actually more reasonable, it stands to reason that any projectile which requires design consideration of it being removed would have to be super hard, like indestructible. Even the .50 AE is going to mushroom or fragment on hitting a target, a symptom of a bullet's function: to convert it's kinetic energy into damage to a target. The importance of wound channels/soft-tissue damage/etc in bullet damage is a debate for another time and place, so suffice it to say that a bullet which can consistently hit a target and remain unmarred is not doing its primary job of hurting people very well.

Sorry to beat up so hard on your submission; it's just that in my view it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, as far as real-world ballistics go. As for constructive criticism, I would suggest:

- decreasing the size of the bullet; honestly the whole shell, case included, would have to be monstruous

- removing the curve/barb from the design; it makes sense for contact bee stingers, not so much for a projectiles

- acknowledge that the gun would have considerable recoil; otherwise, add an inertial dampening device

Lastly, why exactly is the rate of fire so low? I mean, only 1 round every 15 seconds? You mention the action being gas-operated, and the description seems to support a magazine fed mechanism (another nightmare with asymmetrical rounds), even mentioning “clips,” but unless the actions cycles really slowly – not possible given the blow back force from the round -, 4 RPM doesn't make sense.

(Last nitpick: enclosed containers use for feeding rounds into a gun are called magazines. Clips are devices used to feed rounds into magazines, typically magazines which are built into the gun.)
 
First I apologize for not really understanding your larger paragraphs, to figure them out would put a bullet in MY head though I do understand the concerns.

The only other gun in this class in the little killer and maaaybe one other which makes it a little challenging.

Anyway, made changes

-Bullet is now .22 long and .1 thick, if this is wrong, let me know. Also is like a normal bullet.

-It's now Moderate

I hate for you to do all the work for me, but I have no knowledge of bullestic physics and there is next to no .22 cal's on SARP, though for obvious reasons I guess.
 
His physicas are actually accurate. There's a reason .50 isn't used for much other then anti-material in the military. The new dimensions are much more reasonable. Heck, .338 Lapua is big enough to be really effective, if you want oversized pistol rounds.
 
The dimensions you have now are more reasonable, yes, but have almost gone the opposite direction. The term “caliber” refers to the diameter of the barrel, from the “top” of the riflings, so essentially the diameter of the bullet itself. That means the new projectile you described would be .1 cal, rather than .22 cal. I think the dimensions you should use should also be for the case and bullet, rather than just the bullet. For instance, the ubiquitous 5.56x45mm NATO rounds actually describe two things. First, the bullet itself is 5.56 mm in diameter. Second, the case, not counting the tip of the bullet extending out of it, is 45 mm long. The dimensions for a .22 Long Rifle round, also called by its metric designation 5.6x15, would be a bullet of 5.6 mm diameter with a 15 mm long case.

The reason why mentioning the case size is important is because you can have a lot of different rounds with the same caliber. For instance, the M14 and AK-47 both fire 7.62 mm bullets, but you can't use the same ammunition for both guns. This is because the M14 fires 7.62x51 mm rounds, while the AK-47 uses 7.62x39 mm rounds. The whole gun, from the action to chamber to the ejection system, has to be designed for both the caliber and the case size.

The other thing to consider is that the muzzle velocity, 800 FPS, still seems awfully low, even for a smaller round. Consider the .22 LR. Its muzzle velocity is 1000-1800 FPS, depending on the grain (weight) of the bullet (lighter bullets having the lower muzzle velocities). Even the .50 Action Express, the round I mentioned in my last post, runs around 1300-1500 FPS. Compare that to rifle velocities: the ubiquitous .30-06 rifle round runs from 2500-2900 FPS and the .338 Lapua Mag that Aendri mentioned is around 2700-3300 FPS (in these cases it's the lighter rounds that have the high velocities).

The longer barrels of rifles, rather than pistols, can take advantage of those speeds, resulting in extremely long accurate ranges. But even the .22 LR is accurate out to around 150 yards, though this is when fired from a rifle. Most pistol rounds are accurate to between 100-200 yards. Beyond that, the bullet drop is too hard to compensate for, but the rounds will retain more than enough velocity to be lethal to ranges far beyond that.

So, for a few more things to consider:

- look at the size of the round again; if you do want to keep it that small, you might want to make it out of a material like Tungstun. Make it a small, high velocity penetrator instead of a more usual bullet. Otherwise, have it be in the more common pistol round sizes - there are a lot from about .35 to .45 caliber.

- consider upping the muzzle velocity; whether you keep the round small or make it larger, and especially if you make it a penetrator, speeds out to 1600-2000 FPS are quite reasonable

- increase the barrel length; now that the bullet isn't a 1 in x 2 in monster, with a huge case to go with it, you definitely can fit in a longer barrel than 3 in into a 10 in gun. The famous Desert Eagle is also a 10 in gun, and the average barrel length in it is about 6 inches.

- the rate of fire; I touched on it before, but 4 RPM really doesn't make sense. There's honestly no way a gas-operated, magazine fed weapon is going to cycle that slowly. With most pistols, definitely excepting machine pistols, the limitation on rate of fire is the speed with which you can pull the trigger and how quickly you run out of bullets, and how quickly you can reload.

- up the effective range; 100-200 yards is a good bet for most pistols. With fancy future-tech and a smaller caliber, high velocity round (maybe APFSDS – Armor Piercing Fin Stabilized Discarding Sabot?) the range could be even more.

I like guns and ballistics, so this is far from a chore. I'm far from an expert though; for that, on SARP at least, you'd have to talk to Doshii Jun, though I'm sure with all of the military folk here there are plenty of people to answer your questions. And again, this are all just suggestions/notions submitted for your consideration. The new stats are all perfectly correct and theoretically possible, but are just a little odd. Thus, feel free to ignore everything I've said, or just pick and choose what you will.
 
Changes

History, now better reflects how useful the weapon is.

upped RPM to 12

changed gun size a little

Muzzle Velocity now 1200

bullet size changed


If the bullet is the right size, I'll be finished with this gun. It's mostly a gun that PC's will laugh at when they get hit by it, then be surprised when the meet later generation variants.
 
At this point, nothing I see pops out as "impossible" or even "highly improbable." It's all just a little odd (the barrel length still being the oddest) and the bullet is weird (though functional), but since it is, as you say, a prototype and a bit of a failure at that it all seems good to go. Of course, I have absolutely no say in this forum, so what I think it seems like isn't worth much.
 
Can you DOGA or draw up some artwork for this?
 
Well I have been playing around with GIMP 2 for a bit trying to make a crab like thing, but it typically ends with me putting a mustache and a beard on it before deleting it.

Ya, I'll try get something up there.
 
I have posted my crappy art for the crappy gun.

Like I said no expert in guns, but I wanted to make it look alien-ish, especially since this race has no connection with the current races.
 
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