Alternative names for current human languages

[Fay]

I would like to propose that we offer alternate names to the current human languages in the SARP setting:

English -> Nepleslian, the Trade Language

Japanese -> Yamataian

Pros:

* This would reinforce notion that the "human" species in SARP are exotic branches of humanity, in culture if not in genetics.

* Naming English as both Nepleslian and "the trade language" would complement / reinforce the fact that Nepleslians were the original colonists in this sector of space, and thus every human culture still speak Nepleslian as the common trade language.

* This would make questions like "where is Earth?" from new players easier to explain. Words like "English" and "Japanese" should start to lose their connotations and meaning with Earth effectively missing from the setting.

* This would not eliminate the original names of the languages. Calling Nepleslian "English" would still be valid ICly, just quaint and archaic, like calling a car an "automobile".

* As for IC reasons for this change, we can say that people are using the names to reinforce their sense of national identity.

Cons:

* Lots of bios refer to original terminology, so the transition to this new terminology will be a very slow process.

* Redundant terminology could possibly be confusing to new players.

I vote for immediate approval. Using Japanese and English is really irritating. Better to just say Yamataian, Nepleslian, etc.

Better yet, instead of saying "the trade language," why not have the name for it just be "Trade?"

"Hey, you speak Trade, fucker?"
"No," the Neko replies, "I speak Yamataian." ^_^b

"Do they speak Nepleslian in What?"

The only con i see is that Yamataian can be both a person and the language. Same with Nepleslian. So i'd much rather see Seraphim being left as it is.

I'm a swede, but i speak swedish. Englishmen speak English...

How about Yamatese Wink and Neplial. Nepi for short?

I'd like to know what the reasoning is behind renaming Seraphim Elysian actually. I kinda of like the term 'Seraphim'.

Renaming English - Trade and Japanese - Yamataian is a good idea as far as I'm concerned.

Zakalwe does have a valid point. Seraphim is already a fake language, and most Elysian PCs just use English anyway, so I'm not sure if it requires renaming.

Well I'd always assume, if not explicitly said otherwise, that a Elysian speaks Seraphim when with other Elysians. It's an element of national pride. Like Welsh but containing more Win.

... I'm an idiot because I thought Seraphim was an actual kind of language. I fail.

Indeed you do. Don't cut yourself.

Anyway, this is one of those things that really isn't required, but its a nice bit of fluff. I approve of it, although the two would still be pretty much interchangeable.

There is a simple solution for the Yamataian language name--extrapolate the actual name from real Japanese.

Examples:

Nihon/Nippon = Japan
Nihon-jin = Japanese person
Nihon-go = Japanese Language

As such, it is possible that the language for Yamataians can be formally called Yamatai-go, which would likely be shorted to something like Yamago for ease of use/slang. Especially by other cultures.

It could also be that a Yamataian is actually a Yamatai-jin, shorted to Yamataian by other cultures using the English/Trade equivalent name, which is a close and logical change by pronounciation.

 

[Fay]

That works, too.

Of course there also will probably be different dialects of the same language... Well, there would be if we didn't mind it becoming pretty complicated in the long run.

No objections to retaining the name Seraphim. I tacked on that line about replacing it with Elysian at the last moment... for symmetry.

Your attempt to give Elysians media attention is noted and appreciated. Especially since I've high-jacked this thread.

Anywho - I agree.

English - Trader. Despite losing the one connection to my glorious country.

Well...Abwehran is already this universe's German.

So I've made my peace now.

Shh, we want to keep that an obvious secret. *smile*

The Freespacers, being removed from the Nep pool, likely speak the Queen's English, and Pirates are likely Aussie-like in speech. >.>

If the Freespacers are English I may break down and cry.

Well, if they speak Queen's English.

In think they should all speak like John Lennon. I think Sekiko will agree with me.

I've actually been trying to hammer out a sub-dialect for the 'Spacers to simulate the linguistic effects of isolation. As a 'Space-faring race, they are heavily vested into building and maintaining ships, so I've tried to develop some pilot-like lingo for them; hence, a pilot is called a "Spacecase", and an engineer a "Gearhead", and so on. Also since the internet tends to heavily corrupt normal language in most cases (and the 'Spacers are a highly digitally-oriented society) I've tried to play my characters with a heavy amount of slang and odd wording.

Fun fact: Teminus, the 'Spacer god of nuclear war and launch facilities, derives from a corruption of T-minus.

As for how they sound, I've always imagined various dialects due to their semi-isolation; Fleets are physically separate, mostly communicating via digital means, which would cultivate a wide array of accents. However, when I first made this race they were actually a subtle reference to the Irish (Deoradh, their original name, is modern Irish for "exile"). Hence the strong anti-government and pagan undertones; a subtle allusion for the vast number of rebellions over the 700 years they were ruled by Britain, and Celtic mythos, respectively. Even the "Free State" has been historically been used by many nations, including the predecessor of the Republic of Ireland, as a sign of independence from former rulers.

...And I've sidetracked a bit. Ahem. Anyways, yeah, various dialects I imagine derived from various British Isles dialects. More common dialects than rather than upper-class ones such as the King's English. I also imagine a number of Maritime-style dialects, such as those in Newfoundland, which are actually half-blend of North American and Irish culture/language.

(OOC: See: This and this sample for the difference. )

* * * * * *

Separate from the above post, but relevant to this topic nonetheless. This may be quite useful for helping race writers hammer out how they imagine their species should sound: http://web.ku.edu/idea/index.htm

This is a database of different dialects and/or accents of the English language. They have douzens if not hundreds of samples of accents from different countries, and even the various dialects each country uses. This might be useful for different factions or nations who wish to give others an example of how they may speak.

Fun fact: The British Isles and North America alone have approximately 50 dialects.

Wow Shocked . That is quite a lot. However, I don't think dialectical differences would be a problem. It's like a jersey boy talking to a southern hick. Same language, different ways of saying things, but they can manage.

I really like this idea, but especially the English=Trade. It not only clears up things, but also adds to the site's win levels.

 

[Fay]

Okay, I removed the line about the Elysians.

What do people prefer? Yamataian or Yamago? Nepleslian or Neplese?

The grammar particles for "Yamataian" language shouldn't confuse it with the Yamataian species. But "Yamatai-go" would be kinda cool.

Nepleslian sounds better than Neplese.

Wow Shocked . That is quite a lot. However, I don't think dialectical differences would be a problem. It's like a jersey boy talking to a southern hick. Same language, different ways of saying things, but they can manage.

Hey!!! I take offense at being called a Hick! .....Just cause it's true doesn't mean you have to be so mean. Anyway, I'd like to restate that Abrehwan is the Universe's German and I'd like to say that wouldn't Nepleslia, which kinda sounds like the Universe's America from what I hear anyway, be used kinda slangy? Like Nephie or something similar? Or maybe it'd be just different depending on which part of Nepleslia you come from?

 

[Yangfan]

Any other comments?

If/when this is approved, I'll try to find the time to wiki-ify it. My NPCs will start using the new terms, and I hope others will follow. Participation is not required, though. I don't have the energy to hunt anyone down for non-compliance.

 

[Wes]

Nepleslian is the common language - Yamataian language is found more among the higher-class or more traditional Yamataian peoples.

This works fine.

 

[Kim]

Sounds like we have a good census from the community. So from here on out, we have to try to implement the change in our posts and try to correct things where feasible. =)


Approved.