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Bloodrage Missile.

Edto Xar'Sivaree

Lizard Freak!
Inactive Member
Submission Type: Missile
Submission URL: https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=corp:komodo_arms_manufacturing:bloodrage_missile

Faction: VDTF
FM Approved Yet? Yes
Faction requires art? No

For Reviewers:
Contains Unapproved Sub-Articles? Yes, Necrosis
Contains New art? Yes
Previously Submitted? Yes, V3 was not compatible, and the views of how it worked were contested at the time. The New state of the V3 system should no longer get in the way of how this system operates.
 
The appeal did not happen. I made the appeal but given the appeal was "How many can the Necrosis Carry" when there was a maximum of 8 Same Tier weapons allowed, and that is no longer an issue of V3, the appeal is no longer nessisary.
 
The appeal did not happen. I made the appeal but given the appeal was "How many can the Necrosis Carry" when there was a maximum of 8 Same Tier weapons allowed, and that is no longer an issue of V3, the appeal is no longer nessisary.

Aren't @Wes and/or @Doshii Jun the ones who should be deciding that?

Edit: Furthermore...
  • How does the missile "utilize the firing ship's sensors for guidance" when no communication device is included?
  • What are the ranges of the magnetic and infra-red sensors included in the missile - and do they vary depending on the missile variant?
  • What are the specific dimensioms (and thus hull integrity) of each missile variant?
 
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I think I was pretty clear. Unless you are asking for special rules to be made specifically for my submission Frost. The Rejection was because me and Doshii could not agree on how the V3 should be interpreted, but the rule that required interpretation is no longer in place. I don't see how Doshii or Wes, despite being staff, could weigh in on that other than "The rule is no longer in place" unless you are specifically gunning for the rule to be put in place for my submissions. Are you asking for special treatment to be placed on me?
 
Please do not turn this submission thread into a back and forth. Respectfully allow the NTSE to request people and look through.
 
My last response as well.

@Edto Xar'Sivaree, I was asking that you comply with this section of the Submission Rules and with what @Doshii Jun requested here. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yes. As per the origonal V3 rules, and the application me and Doshii could not agree upon, I asked Doshii to reject the submission so that I could bring it to appeal. I sent the appeal months ago, and have since not received any comment on the appeal, probably due to Wes being busy. However, given the ruling was over the 8 weapon rule, which is no longer in place, the "Application to which it was too overpowered for the rule set" is no longer a valid rejection, and this submission was not rejected with prejudice.

Without the intended application, which is no longer of a concern due to the removal of the 8 weapon rule, the missiles, in reality, should have no problem getting through, because it was the Necrosis Fighter that was causing all the issues. I did not agree that 6 T9 missiles were too much given I would have to leave the battle and land to get another 6 placed on the craft. This was the core of the issue, an issue that is no longer in existence due to the 8 weapon rule being removed. There was no ruling in place, and when you introduced the missile rules I would have still had enough weapon space to place 8 missiles, not six, on the craft, but your missiles ruls did not go through for a less rules based system.

Ergo, the reason for the submitter requested rejection is no longer an issue for the system and the missiles are no longer contested unless there are further issues which were not brought up by the original reviewer, who if I am recalling correctly, merely asked for me to drop the weapon system down to T8 to better fall in line with not breaking the 8 weapon rule.

Can missiles not be T9 is the only question I have left, if there is a problem with their power.
 
My apologies, @Talarn; after this response, I promise to refrain posting within this thread until after @Wes, @Doshii Jun, or yourself have done so.

@Edto Xar'Sivaree, I was asking that you comply with this section of the Submission Rules and with what @Doshii Jun requested here. Nothing more, nothing less.
Thank you for understanding. I just don't want this to continue on for another two pages. Your complaints and suggestions are appreciated; you're my senior on this site and an FM of a faction. Please let me do the job I volunteered to do.

My last response as well.



Yes. As per the origonal V3 rules, and the application me and Doshii could not agree upon, I asked Doshii to reject the submission so that I could bring it to appeal. I sent the appeal months ago, and have since not received any comment on the appeal, probably due to Wes being busy. However, given the ruling was over the 8 weapon rule, which is no longer in place, the "Application to which it was too overpowered for the rule set" is no longer a valid rejection, and this submission was not rejected with prejudice.

Without the intended application, which is no longer of a concern due to the removal of the 8 weapon rule, the missiles, in reality, should have no problem getting through, because it was the Necrosis Fighter that was causing all the issues. I did not agree that 6 T9 missiles were too much given I would have to leave the battle and land to get another 6 placed on the craft. This was the core of the issue, an issue that is no longer in existence due to the 8 weapon rule being removed. There was no ruling in place, and when you introduced the missile rules I would have still had enough weapon space to place 8 missiles, not six, on the craft, but your missiles ruls did not go through for a less rules based system.

Ergo, the reason for the submitter requested rejection is no longer an issue for the system and the missiles are no longer contested unless there are further issues which were not brought up by the original reviewer, who if I am recalling correctly, merely asked for me to drop the weapon system down to T8 to better fall in line with not breaking the 8 weapon rule.

Can missiles not be T9 is the only question I have left, if there is a problem with their power.
Please understand that what Frost brings up is the right question; did you talk to Wes about this? I would like him to give the green light before I go about perusing through the wiki article.
 
Having looked through the original submission, I would like to inquire as to what exactly the "final application" of the Bloodrage Missile rendered it's status as a tech submission "rejected". @Doshii Jun @Edto Xar'Sivaree

I have also glanced at the WIP article of the Bloodrage Missile and would like to request an additional paragraph outlining the creation and the technical aspects of the weapon.

"A powerful nuclear warhead, with a powerful micro-VDTF Nuclear Turbine allowing it to do heavy damage to objects much larger than it."
I would ask that this be elaborated upon, as far as I am aware nuclear technology is rather low-tech, and if thrown against a Plumeria-class; I would dare say the gunship would come out on top and relatively unscathed.

"Warships, seeing the benefit of this missile to the Necrosis, will have entire batteries filled with them, for the expressed purpose of dealing with walls of small attackers."
This also appeared to have been an issue. Would it be possible to limit this to the Necrosis-class interceptor? A standard ship of the line would have point-defense and turrets to deal with PA/other ships of the line, no?

"Six Standard Missiles on the bottom of the Necrosis"
Instead of six could I recommend you limit it to four? I compare the standard missiles to the real-life
AIM-120B/C AMRAAM, an advanced medium range air-to-air missile and the mini-missiles to the real-life AIM-9L/M Sidewinder, a short-range infra-red missile.

I am keeping in mind that many ships and PA you come across, from Yamataia and Neplesia respectively, will have sufficient point-defense/speed/maneuverability/armor to counter the limited load-out so I am by no means saying it is overpowered.

In that sense, can you tell me what the standard load-out for the Necrosis would be in terms of standards only/mini-missiles only/and a mixture of both?
 
Having looked through the original submission, I would like to inquire as to what exactly the "final application" of the Bloodrage Missile rendered it's status as a tech submission "rejected". @Doshii Jun @Edto Xar'Sivare

The "Final Application" was the Necrosis. Me and Doshii could not agree on an appropriate tier for the system given the ambiguity of the rules. Furthermore, the main canons of the Necrosis have been appropriately downgraded from T7 to T4, which was the original tier at the time of the previous submission so if that can be properly taken into account I would appreciate it before going further.

"A powerful nuclear warhead, with a powerful micro-VDTF Nuclear Turbine allowing it to do heavy damage to objects much larger than it."
I would ask that this be elaborated upon, as far as I am aware nuclear technology is rather low-tech, and if thrown against a Plumeria-class; I would dare say the gunship would come out on top and relatively unscathed.

The idea of a Necrosis going up against a plumeria is laughable. Extrodinarily laughable actually. The Necrosis is a fighter, the Plumeria is a starship. They are totally different tiers. Not to mention the fact that I have FIRMLY maintained the Vekimens position in the "Standard" Technology bracket, which is heavily focused on Fusion and Nuclear powers, where Yamatai sits at the top with Super Advanced, and everything powered by Aether Tech. The Vekimen VS Yamatai, is in any sense of the word, a joke.

"Warships, seeing the benefit of this missile to the Necrosis, will have entire batteries filled with them, for the expressed purpose of dealing with walls of small attackers."
This also appeared to have been an issue. Would it be possible to limit this to the Necrosis-class interceptor? A standard ship of the line would have point-defense and turrets to deal with PA/other ships of the line, no?

I suppose I /could/ do that, but realistically it wouldn't make much sense. If I could pack a battery of these things on a ship, and due not I am not in a tier to deal with the higher up factions, Missiles are actually practical for what I would be facing. I'm not looking to go up against Yamatai or Nepleslia. I am looking to face similarly tiers races, or deal with the problem of being significantly underrated.

A good example would the the UNSC in Halo, vs the Covenant.

"Six Standard Missiles on the bottom of the Necrosis"
Instead of six could I recommend you limit it to four? I compare the standard missiles to the real-life
AIM-120B/C AMRAAM, an advanced medium range air-to-air missile and the mini-missiles to the real-life AIM-9L/M Sidewinder, a short-range infra-red missile.

6 to 4 seems a little... Strange. Though, I will play with your example of the AIM and AMRAAM.

The F-16, which isn't a Modern jet so to speak. Given it's first flight was in 1976, I feel that may be a good comparison, especially given I used it often in references to make this craft.
aah.png

On the F-16, AIM-120 AMRAAMs can be loaded on stations 1 and 9 (1 missile each, wingtip), 2 & 8 (1 missile each) and 3 & 7 (1 missile each).

That is a total of 6 missiles. However, the Necrosis uses a Triangular missile system on two hardpoints under the body. Going clockwise, starting at the bottom point, the firing pattern is 1, 2, 3. When the hardpoints are spent, it has to RTB to get them replaced.

In that sense, can you tell me what the standard load-out for the Necrosis would be in terms of standards only/mini-missiles only/and a mixture of both?

The Necrosis Fighter is built standard with 4 30mm Auto-gauss canons which are all rated at T4 respectively, as previously stated. Anything else on the bottom will need to be compatible with 2 hardpoints on the bottom of the current Necrosis craft. These missiles are currently the only other weapons built for the system.

I am keeping in mind that many ships and PA you come across, from Yamataia and Neplesia respectively, will have sufficient point-defense/speed/maneuverability/armor to counter the limited load-out so I am by no means saying it is overpowered.

I am well aware of this, as as stated previously, a Vekimen Vs Yamatai or Nepleslian battle would be laughable given the Vekimens current TEch bracket. I don't practically see this wiping the field against either of these factions, thought I would be remiss if I were to say I would not expect this system to score a handful of kills, maybe one per 3 loadouts ((1:18 Ratio))
 
I would like to ask how many war-capable vessels you have currently.
How many Necrosis Interceptors will you be able to field?
How many have you been able to build?

I am well aware of this, as as stated previously, a Vekimen Vs Yamatai or Nepleslian battle would be laughable given the Vekimens current TEch bracket. I don't practically see this wiping the field against either of these factions, thought I would be remiss if I were to say I would not expect this system to score a handful of kills, maybe one per 3 loadouts ((1:18 Ratio))

I also ask the question in case there are any concerns of the missile itself being overpowered, which I am happy you admit to being utterly useless against the more technologically superior factions.

6 to 4 seems a little... Strange. Though, I will play with your example of the AIM and AMRAAM.

The F-16, which isn't a Modern jet so to speak. Given it's first flight was in 1976, I feel that may be a good comparison, especially given I used it often in references to make this craft.

I brought this up in terms of size and weight of the two missiles.

The Necrosis Fighter is built standard with 4 30mm Auto-gauss canons which are all rated at T4 respectively, as previously stated. Anything else on the bottom will need to be compatible with 2 hardpoints on the bottom of the current Necrosis craft. These missiles are currently the only other weapons built for the system.

I'm sorry if this confused you. I meant to say how many can it fit of each? It can fit six standard missiles. How many mini missiles can it run with? How many of a mix of both standard and mini can it run with?
 
War Capable Vessels are slowly being built as the Vekimen do not have an operational shipyard ((Yet)), so they are building them similarly to how one would build cars.

I would say they currently have about 100 functioning models, however I am capable currently of fielding 25,000 as per the military buildup rules.

As for the Missile loadout. Mini missiles would probably be 10 maximum, and it could field 3 and 5 of the missiles and mini missiles respectively.
 
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