Character Template Discussion

[Eistheid]

Related to the already existing thread addressing the skills section of character creation, it was suggested, and I decided to take it upon myself to start a thread where we can discuss and refine the Template instead of just wishing it was better.

At minimum far we have these to consider:

• Character descriptions; Do we need more areas to better define the character? Such as voice, or handedness? Could this be touched on in an optional section or maybe provide a link to a page that encourages more thorough description?
• The "Information Card" the area where we stick basic information like affiliation, species, height, and art. Is there a better layout for this?
• The skills section. Do we need to change it? Is there a better format?

There is probably much more but I'm struggling to think of any examples so I'll leave it to the rest of the community to contribute.

 

[Kyle]

Some of us already use a custom character template for our characters - instead of using the official one. Could just use that one, since it encourages people to better organize their information (by utilizing specific articles for specific things, like history and such)

 

[Wes]

1. Remove Age in favor of Birth Year. Many biographies don't keep their age properly updated, and when a player leaves their character bios end up severely outdated, and the age field is one of the big areas. Basically: The age field is a problem. I think we should replace it with year of birth (players can optionally add age if they want). This will save us thousands of wiki edits a year.

2. Replace Physical Stats With A Description: Also, apparently it can be very frustrating for players to figure out their character's proper weight and measurements for their height. Players making a new character often have to visit some other site to find a calculator and just get slowed down in general. In most cases this information is unnecessary in the RP anyway. So my suggestion is replace measurements, height, and weight with "body type." An example for a Body Type description would be "This 5'3" Nekovalkyrja is slender and toned, with broad hips and a noticeable thigh gap."

3. Remove Likes and Dislikes: These fields are not really used well by most players. I see stuff like: "Likes: Sex, Great Food, Being Loved" and "Dislikes: Being shot, disloyal people." Basically stuff that we all like or dislike. Update the personality description to let characters put this info in there instead, when it makes sense.

4. Goals should be a paragraph, not a bullet item. Players don't necessarily have to write a paragraph. A sentence will do, but this doesn't need to be a bullet, especially if we get rid of likes and dislikes, also currently bulleted.

Important: We don't want to make the table at the top wider, because it could cause mobile browser issues.

 

[Syaoran]

I don't think we much need likes and dislikes either. Not sure about goals either though, cause it's not like anyone would really know the character's goals unless told. It should be encouraged to be written out, but it shouldn't be mandatory, some people want to play characters that are currently just following orders, and haven't found themselves and wont till later. As for the physical description, I think at least height should be mandatory though. It will not only show if they have an idea about the species' build but when someone says "This short neko" it makes you wonder do they mean short for the race, short compared to humans, or short by some other standard?

As for the info card, family information can generally be put in there, it also helps people out some when they realize they don't have to list all the character's brother's and sisters if they have a bunch. Also the info card can be wrapped to the right, I do it on almost all my sheets cause it just looks better, unless you want to wrap the text to the left. Also character's without a picture can put a basic physical description of themselves in their for people to get an idea of what they look like at a glance.

 

[Wes]

No, family information doesn't belong in the info card, because some characters have a lot of family members! The card is for short facts only.

 

[Moogle]

I also maintain that likes and dislikes are. . . largely useless. Goals I think should be kept because it means something to work towards.

The birth year thing is good as well. Just makes everything easier to (not) update. Height I think is absolutely necessary, weight maybe not as much, and as for body type in place of the measurements spot I say go for it. But don't blend them. Bullet points (as is) are better.

 

[Syaoran]

No, family information doesn't belong in the info card, because some characters have a lot of family members! The card is for short facts only.

If you have a lot you can always list it below but just listing Mother Father and X number of siblings is pretty good to put on the info card since it's purpose is quick reference anyway, not details.

 

[Amaryllis]

2. Replace Physical Stats With A Description: Also, apparently it can be very frustrating for players to figure out their character's proper weight and measurements for their height. Players making a new character often have to visit some other site to find a calculator and just get slowed down in general. In most cases this information is unnecessary in the RP anyway. So my suggestion is replace measurements, height, and weight with "body type." An example for a Body Type description would be "This 5'3" Nekovalkyrja is slender and toned, with broad hips and a noticeable thigh gap."

I like this just as it is because you can always have both and it encourages people to learn what different weights actually look like. Plus people have fun knowing exactly how much taller/heavier their characters are compared to each other and people will inevitably ask which of their characters is skinnier or whatever if you don't include measurements. They can always be optional.

3. Remove Likes and Dislikes: These fields are not really used well by most players. I see stuff like: "Likes: Sex, Great Food, Being Loved" and "Dislikes: Being shot, disloyal people." Basically stuff that we all like or dislike. Update the personality description to let characters put this info in there instead, when it makes sense.

I like this just as it is because you can very quickly look for things you might use as inspiration for RP with a character. If people are writing things that just about everyone likes I bet some of them are doing so to show their characters especially like these things and actively pursue or look forward to them. Everyone might like money but for a character like Lamb's Enzo who is always stealing stuff to make profit on the side it makes sense to list it as a like.

4. Goals should be a paragraph, not a bullet item. Players don't necessarily have to write a paragraph. A sentence will do, but this doesn't need to be a bullet, especially if we get rid of likes and dislikes, also currently bulleted.

I think bullet form is just fine because it encourages people to write something instead of nothing at all and not to write more than they want to. If you want to make the creation process easier this is counter-intuitive as it's easier to write things in point form. Plus you can scan a profile faster for inspiration as to how to RP with it the current way. People can always explain the motivations behind their character's goals elsewhere.

 

[Wes]

I'm working on a simple new character creation guide that's as simple and straightforward as possible, along with a new standard template that looks something like this. The new guide is still very much a work in progress. The "advanced" template will be basically the current one, while the "standard" has no skill section, but is otherwise the same information, but in paragraph form instead of broken down into various fill-in-the blank fields. So it looks much less intimidating but doesn't really sacrifice much actual info.

The new CCG is supposed to basically have everything in one place, but will likely have an advanced section at the bottom that will link to the current species CCGs, etc. It will have lots of pretty pictures but we're not that far yet.

Also I'm not sure how/if I can factor Doshii's Occupation section into this.

As always, suggestions are welcome.

 

[Doshii Jun]

What would you need from me to factor it in? I don't mind if my Occupation idea doesn't work out, but I'd hate for it to be tossed because I didn't help out.

 

[Wes]

Well, my main concern is it seems a bit "advanced" to go in my tentative standard template. Putting it in the more simple template would add a new section that I'm not sure is necessary. To be honest, when I read your initial idea, I was under the impression that most skills would be offloaded occupation pages and little to no text would be needed on the character page (just stuff for misc non-job skills).

 

[Archander]

Can I just pose a question here in regards to the point of this thread?

I'm working on a simple new character creation guide that's as simple and straightforward as possible, along with a new standard template that looks something like this. The new guide is still very much a work in progress. The "advanced" template will be basically the current one, while the "standard" has no skill section, but is otherwise the same information, but in paragraph form instead of broken down into various fill-in-the blank fields. So it looks much less intimidating but doesn't really sacrifice much actual info.

Isn't this jumping the gun a bit since the thread largely seemed in favor of Doshii's set up? No offense intended or anything Wes, but isn't this a bit counterintuitive - perhaps even counterproductive?

 

[Moogle]

That, in fact, is what started these two threads in the first place.

 

[Syaoran]

Well, my main concern is it seems a bit "advanced" to go in my tentative standard template. Putting it in the more simple template would add a new section that I'm not sure is necessary. To be honest, when I read your initial idea, I was under the impression that most skills would be offloaded occupation pages and little to no text would be needed on the character page (just stuff for misc non-job skills).

@Wes I think you're making a bit of a mistake, you're focusing way to much on trying to 'clean up' a thing that's not even really dirty. Writing in skills and such and not just having it only link to a template that has all your skills allows for individuality in your skills. But also the biggest thing is having that separate section allows GMs to actually -plan- scenarios for their players. You don't have to worry about it because you run an army plot with certain required skills. But that's a lot harder for indie plots with not as clear cut 'positions'. Over my stay here I've seen people complain about all sorts of things about their character's specialties being ignored. Medics leading fire teams, combat engineers that never even get to touch explosives, snipers who get nothing but close quarters fights.

It's interesting when a character sometimes has to do things outside their comfort zone, but if they get nothing but assignments that don't deal with their specialty they're gonna want to leave the plot to find one that does. Is that the kind of situation you want Wes? Cause that becomes more and more likely to happen with the more you try to minimize the skill section.

Also what was the point of the whole other discussion if the idea we thought would work isn't even being used?

 

[Doshii Jun]

Well, my main concern is it seems a bit "advanced" to go in my tentative standard template. Putting it in the more simple template would add a new section that I'm not sure is necessary. To be honest, when I read your initial idea, I was under the impression that most skills would be offloaded occupation pages and little to no text would be needed on the character page (just stuff for misc non-job skills).

If you examine what I did with Yukari, you can see that there actually can be very little added text -- and that's a veteran character. It still would be very simple for a new player to use, as most everything is offloaded onto other pages.

https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=characters:yamatai:suzuka_yukari#occupation

 

[Eistheid]

Once the work that I have outlined in the skills thread is completed I will work on putting together a character template to address the needs of this thread.

Please have patience.