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Do You Support Star Army's Use of AI Art?

Wes

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I was asked recently:

Does your site support the use of AI as character images?​

This is what I said:

See, Star Army has historically been a "we buy art for characters" site rather than the "use a celebrity's face" and use of AI hasn't changed that. We just have a lot more illustrations than before. We're using AI to make stuff like inventory items, you know boots and backpacks and stuff. For character art, we want the characters in the right uniforms and we want that human touch.

AI Art is wonderful for roleplay sites. It's amazing we can now generate characters in seconds for random NPCs and stuff. I've been making tons of it with Midjourney and Stable Diffusion. That said, there's a certain level of randomness in AI art that makes it difficult to use for a specific character when you have a clear vision of them in mind. It's best used like random generator when you sort of know what you want. I especially like to use it to make placeholders and references which I then pass on to artists when I get art commissioned of the character.

Opinion time: I think the "AI Art is theft" angle is basically an overblown meme. I'm not sure the people who say that understand the technology or how copyright works. Instead, I the real reason people hate on AI art is because it's flooding the internet with low quality junk images. There's just too much of it. It's spammy. People need to be way more judicious about what they post, especially in spaces meant for artists. AI art pics are like photos of your kids, their creator is super excited about their creation but no one else really cares or wants to see them. And all this AI art posting is crowding out the art of real people who spent 6 hours slaving over their computer to make something cool, and sites like DeviantArt haven't really made a good filter for it because their moderation is a joke.​

In summary: AI generated images are welcome on my RP site, but human-made art is preferred. We've embraced this phenomenon while still supporting human artists. AI art is a supplement to human art, not a replacement.

What do you guys think?
 
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It is hard to acknowledge one perspective in this discussion without also acknowledging the other. When I joined this site I had no idea what AI art was or that there are artists who make character art. Now I know there is both and its difficult to ignore the differences.

Some may see adding a character picture to their wiki as a final touch to bring the whole piece together. Whether that is AI generated or made by an artist is an essential part of the process. AI generated is quick, relatively inexpensive, and allows for a relatively low stress option for those who may not enjoy potential disagreements with artists. Though it does have the potential to yield a fine outcome, that I myself have utilized. Artists who draw characters put a lot of time and effort into what they do and I can see why AI would be a problem for their work. However, for some people finding that artist that is the perfect match to embody their character could take a lot of time, money, and conflict if that character does not turn out the way they imagined.

My view point is: I appreciate that the Star Army allows AI generated art, while also preferring human artists. It makes the site more approachable to those who may not be able to afford to have a person make art for them, but want to be fully immersed in the community with having a picture of their character. Not only does Star Army have both, but it could also be a potential avenue to bolster awareness for the availability of artists' variations, styles, and more.
 
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Polygon, your art is amazing and unique and that unique style is a huge asset precisely because it doesn't look like everything else.

I don't necessarily see a competition between art and generated art because:
  • Even if I had unlimited money to commission artists I'd still generate art for fun. There's a certain appeal to the unpredictable nature of it and the speed. it's not an artist replacement, it's more of a fun art gambling machine that's useful to make fantasy stuff for my RP.
  • Likewise no amount of AI art would stop me from getting art commissions because getting art of my character in the right uniform and with the right face and look is one of the greatest things.
I will always be trying to make or buy unique art. Star Army having unique art and a certain look to it has been a defining feature since our earliest days and I don't want to lose that by settling for generic images pumped out en masse. Besides, anything I can generate, so can any competing community. That said let's be real that SARP runs at a loss for me. We don't sell anything or run ads. Sometimes AI art is all I have available other than trying to scribble something on copier paper and taking a photo with my phone, lol.

@Primitive Polygon : If it'll help you feel less depressed, I'd love to commission you sometime. A Polygon artwork is always a joy to behold. Literally every time you post one I feel giddy. Don't give up.

I really appreciate how cool everyone has been in this thread, by the way. We have people with different views in here and everyone has been totally civil and respectful. It's definitely given me some things to think about.
 
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Know I know for a fact that @Alex Hart is our resident rockerboy
I’m genuinely amazed by how many good points everybody has to offer about this. Both sides of the argument make very good points.

My stance is a simple one. I do NOT like AI art generators. Their results generally miss the mark but in reality they give me pictures I wasn’t going to buy in the first place, thus no real artists are going to miss my business. The images are soulless abominations with 90% of them being a waste but yielding a handful of semi-usable pics that I will proceed to kitbash into one reasonable picture with Paint 3D.
In the meantime it allows us broke members to get illustrations, even if they suck.

That being said, I don’t want AI art to represent SARP. It’s got it’s purpose and that purpose is to enhance our community’s stories. If it can do that, I’m okay with it, but the moment something better comes up I say we switch to it.
 
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Thanks for the words of support. Can appreciate it's not exactly a straight forward issue, since the cat is out of the bag, either way. Other websites could and do use AI art, even if SARP didn't. It's unrealistic to expect the site as a whole to not come off as obtuse towards new members, if a big 'NO AI ART' banner was in the rules or whatever.

Totally agree with Nakshatra, too- With a slightly incompatible client and artist, either one's ideas could get totally lost in the mix.

It's not like I am angry at people who use it or anything. I guess not so long ago, submitted AI Art would have been more like a photobash or sprite art, for people who don't have the right living enviroment, or motivation, to learn art for themselves.

I don't know. For some of us, the art stuff is just a massive chunk of the appeal, though. Like a 90s RPG book you'll probably never use, but feels like a vivid grimoire in your hands. AI art- And, indeed, most recent warhammer codexes- have perhaps lost that appeal with how they can be massively hyperfocused on maintaining brand image.

It makes anything that goes against the grain- At an inferior surface skill level at that- Feel very hard to justify or even create at a quick enough pace.

I trust that you have good intentions in mind.

But I guess the question is, how would you even go about policing the balance, with this sort of thing? Is it even possible?
 
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I feel like we had a good convo in discord that might be relevant.

 
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Interesting. On one hand viewing art is not a crime, but on the other hand, they are a for-profit company using that art to generate new works of art for paying customers. They are not selling the art so it should not be legal, but they are still making a profit using other peoples art which would be illegal if it were redistribution.

As far as lawsuits go it’s not bad, but still very weak as it has no prior president to draw from.
The legislation that would come from this could be very interesting.
 
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This is kind of a related tangent, but I had been thinking about it, and starting to get motivated to do more logos/patches/flags in the backlog kind of solidified it. My tenure as a working artist was in graphic design, and I spent it, and the time since, with kind of the feeling that we were second-class to illustrators when it came to professional art. That makes it really, really ironic I guess for me that AI is closing in on high-end illustrators in all styles, but it can't even come close do succeeding at things that I consider barely more than trivial in terms of graphic design. Its inability to deal properly with text is part of it, but that's not all of it. It is just kind of strange, to me, I guess.
 
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