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Fort Torēningu

Ethereal

Ethereal

Banned Member
Inactive Member
Submission URL
https://stararmy.com/wiki/doku.php?id=stararmy:bases:fort_toreningu
Submission Faction(s)
  1. Yamatai (except Elysia)
Submission Terms
  1. I agree
Submitting the location for the new Basic Training plot. I've structured it in such a way that any future training plots that may feed off of Basic Training (which one can see in Interest Checks), can be staged at the same location and alumni can potentially interact with their juniors. There's some original concepts in here and I think it's well put together, after liaising with @KoreHytaria, @demibear and others including @Andrew for some parts.
 
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Okay, not a problem - I was working off past bases' formats, but I can restructure it. Looks like the vast majority will be under "Description", so that's simple enough.
 
True, we still have a lot of them to convert over to the new template. Thanks!
 
I've given adapting it a shot - see how that looks. It's 7:30am and for some reason I haven't slept yet so give me a shout if there's anything I missed, thanks :)

Edit: I imagine the destination URL will instead be "location:fort_toreningu", going by the format of the auto generating character table?
 
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stararmy:bases:
 
That's what I originally thought Wes, I guess I'll just have to reformat the template's auto table thing

Edit: Done
 
I fixed header levels and got rid of some empty sections by moving things around. I propose naming this something more SARPy than "Fort Training." Fensalir Kelrina was recently killed in the Battle of Nataria, maybe it would be a cool idea to name the fort after her (either Fort Fensalir or Fort Kelrina).

Interesting note: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fensalir
 
I don't feel like the current name is unacceptable - Fort Hajime literally means "Fort Begin", Fort Nozomi means "Fort Hope", there's a "Fort Bastion" and a "Fort Ready". The precendent is already set by those being approved, I think. If anything, SAOY Forts traditionally have rather functional names, either based on a simple word or the location of the fort 😅

If a requirement for approval is a change of name, with the above in mind, I'll have a look around at alternative names. I don't think I'll choose Fensalir Kelrina though, as there's probably figures out there with more interesting and detailed backgrounds to go off, in my opinion. I appreciate the input and the suggestion, though :)
 
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If for training doesn't work maybe Fort Sekhmet. I like including gods and goddesses in things and the most unused lore ive seen on Sarp would be Egypt. Sekhmet is the goddess of war.
 
Given the Fort is star shaped, I was trying to look up the names of the brightest stars in the IC galaxy and use one of those. However sadly people tend not to name their suns. (The brightest named one I could find was called Journey's End, which is the opposite of the feeling I want the name to convey lol). So given Lux is a measure of light (and by extension one way to measure luminosity), it might be neat to have it be called Lux. Especially as in a way, then it'd be Fort Light, with its shape being that of a star.

So I'll edit it to that now and the reviewers can let me know whether its acceptable.

Edit: It might be better to just go for Fort Light. But Fort Amaterasu might also be a good idea. That's the goddess of the sun in Japanese mythology.
 
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I've noticed the updates.

Wes and I have discussed this submission from an FM standpoint.

  1. The Fort and the Program should be submitted separately. The Fort itself is a location and should be fleshed out accordingly. That way we can get the Fort through submissions and the details about the program itself can continue to be discussed and worked out.
  2. As you know there are some details in the program itself that are conflicting with the vision the FMs have for this.

In terms of the Fort

It would be nice if the actual buildings and setup were explained. Things like Star Army services (Star Army Post Office, Hospital, Etc) should be listed along with any vetted civilian operations like restaurants. Outside of it being Star-shaped there really is no details on how this Fort is arranged, or what services it has. I do like the star shape though!

Example Articles -

I find the name very non-SAOY, using a recently deceased veteran officer's name or something significant to the Star Army, or it's geographic/stellar location would help.

In terms of The Training Program

I'm concerned about the fact that the article still has content in it that Wes has expressed as something he doesn't want. I have to agree with him, the use of a scout-style handkerchief goes against the already established uniform code. Not to mention Wes and Star Army has sunk a lot of money into uniform art, and the fleshing out of information about how they are to be worn. Why fix something that is not broken? In terms of hiding rank, I think that departs from how the Star Army works. The point of this program to my understanding is to prepare new soldiers for service in the Star Army. So it should reflect the Star Army as it stands, not become a redevelopment of the wheel.

As I advised when I spoke to you, I think that your central focus in this plot should be 1. Preparing soldiers for service in the Star Army with relevant training and activities for that service. 2. Generating fun for new players that are the focus demographic of this kind of plot. This plot arc could be the FIRST impression a new player has of our community and site; it should be managed in a fashion that is fun, accepting, and keeps the interest. You should avoid departures from that focus, rather than submitting "new stuff".

Saying all that I also don't want you to feel demotivated, I think SARP needs a good training plotline. Just reinventing the wheel to implement it is probably not the approach we should take.
 
As I said to everyone who was in the Discord call telling me what they want to change, I'll only ever do so if it's conveyed properly - here, in the submissions subforum. The reason no changes have been made to the article following that Discord call is because it was outside of the scope of normal review. It wasn't using the right method. And those wishes were ultimately never stated here at all by those that had them, so there'd be no accurate record of what was and wasn't asked.

If the Fort and Programme are to be made separate, I'll make sure that we get the programme agreed upon before the location, as that is bound to be the most contentious. If the programme is not able to be accomodated by the fort's design, the fort needs to change not the programme. So working to approve this article first would be the wrong move. If even the name is currently a point that FMs are requiring changes to, that's a good example of why this approval would need to be stretched over a longer timespan to make sure it's perfect and up to FM standards.

If my vision for the plot is incompatible with Yamatai, that's absolutely fine, and it seems that might be the case - given we're running into sections of additonal content this early, that under FM judgement, make this article unapprovable. I'll have to reassess whether Yamatai is the right place in setting for it, if sunk-cost, the faction's lengthy history, FM preference and such is getting in the way of pushing my intended plot into viability as is mentioned.

Especially as I've explained at length in that same Discord call, that the point of the plot and fort is to be experimental - this is stated plainly in the article. To try out new things and push for innovation, rather than sticking with methods that have more resemblance to 20th century US Army training than what would be considered generally futuristic. Methods that have been as far as I can tell unchanged since the inception of the Star Army or at the very least back to about 2007?

That's one of the main reasons why trying some new things out, like this article and plot tries to do, is very needed as far as I can tell. There's been a lot of new additions since then. New occupations, new administration, new enemies, new laws, new technology, new everything. Just going off the current "wheel" as defined, which is likely more than a decade out of date going by the relevant wiki articles, would be a big step backwards in my view.

With all that in mind, I don't think I would be confident enough to run as you put it, a "first impression" plot for Yamatai if it's already faltering out of the gate in the article regarding the fort, in the FM's perspective. At least at this point. If one of the other interested parties in the plot wish to take over this article submission, feel free to. As of now, I'm going back to the drawing board and taking stock of what is and isn't possible within Yamatai, if the outlook of the plot and the wishes of the FMs are fundementally different, if it needs to go elsewhere or be redesigned from scratch.
 
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If you feel that way I will step up and co Dm this plot with Demibear. I understand you desire for new and interesting things but i do habe to agree that a basic and well know training plot is kind of important for new players. Demi would you be opposed to this? @demibear
 
KoreHytaria said:
If you feel that way I will step up and co Dm this plot with Demibear. I understand you desire for new and interesting things but i do habe to agree that a basic and well know training plot is kind of important for new players. Demi would you be opposed to this? @demibear
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I think you misunderstood, I didn't explicitly say I was giving up on this.
 
Oh no I understood but i was more talking about my original idea and keeping it a Yamatai based plot. Since this was something I was planning to be a part of and as you said giving up the position as gm means my opinions and wishes are just that. I would love to make them a reality not just dreams.
 
That he didn't. I am at work at the moment, but could someone send me exactly what Wes is against in a DM please? I am sure Ethereal and I can come up with something that satisfies everyone without completely undoing a lot of the effort with the wiki he did. It just might take a bit since we live in different time zones, so please have patience.
 
Ethereal: You threatened to take it to another faction if you didn't get your way. How am I supposed to proceed after that? I started out super stoked for this plot and after trying to talk to you in voice and seeing your post above I've lost a lot of enthusiasm.

Basically, I think the whole thing about hiding rank is counter to the most basic fundamentals of a military organization. Here's the way I think it should work:
  • Trainees are assigned to training units (for example there's at least one for basic training, another for NCO school, etc)
    • Prior service soldiers train alongside new recruits (initial entry trainees) but do not share living space/barracks with IETs and are given more freedoms (like leaving post on the weekends)
  • The school has a faculty unit with teachers. Some teachers might even be civilians or guests from various active duty units to share experiences/knowledge. Teachers are not in charge of the students or required to outrank them, they're there to teach not to lead them.
  • If there's an issue (e.g. discipline), the faculty takes it up with the training unit's command through the chain of command.
I think neckerchiefs look bad on Star Army uniforms because Star Army uniforms other than the coverall Type 36 have standing collars, not fold-over ones and I don't think they should be used. I suggested colored loops on the shoulder straps (Scouts style) since the Type 35 Duty Uniform, Type 37 Field Uniform, and Type 32 coat have shoulder straps and the Type 42 can hologram the loops. They're not as conspicuous but can still be seen from a distance and get the job done.

Honestly, that's about it. I didn't really have any other things I disagreed with.
 
I hope this can move in a direction that is amicable, in an echo of what Wes said; threatening to take the plot to another faction is disappointing. This is a plot that I believe Star Army needs and is good for our community. Working together, GMs should be open to the thoughts of FMs especially the founder of the faction. The things standing in the way are relatively minor and shouldn't be deal-breaking.

In terms of the base itself, all I asked for was for a definition of what services and buildings it has so that players have an idea of what is there. 90% of the article is devoted to the program and the base itself seems like an afterthought. I didn't say the base was wrong, I just asked that it be brought into spec with some of the polished bases we have to make it a location that has structure and purpose.
 
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