How come there are no Personal shields?

Kyle said:

no one nation has the aptitude for such things

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Incorrect, Yamatai and Nepland have the ability and the scientific intellect to design PS's, they just favor power armor and thus don't focus on those areas.

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No, you're missing the point of what I said. Just because Yamatai and Nepleslia happen to be Post-Singularity nations with advanced technology does not mean they have the aptitude for this sort of work. It's like saying you can use a spoon to cut a steak. It is an eating utensil yes, but it simply isn't the right one. Same ballpark but different sport. Square Peg, Round Hole, etc etc.

I'm saying this from an observational standpoint having watched Yamatai and Nepleslia's technological growth and branching for the last six years. To suddenly say they can develop it bypasses every bit of technological and scientific canon from then to now.

That, or maybe I am simply one of the few who take into consideration that time should play a factor with any technological outgrowth.

Well, The garts have little deploy-able defense screen generators they can carry about.

I will probably make a Wiki for them. But the technology is not out of the question, I was considering developing a PDR level shield generator for soldiers.

I can see it being used in plots that don't always deploy armor or does not warrant wearing power armor, like going to a bar. Also since the shield is energy based it can have an energy based counter, aside from shooting at it an EMP like device could kill it or something that overpowers it.

Like anything, JUST having a shield can also be considered a weakness. I do not see a street thug having just a personal shield going up against a Mindy, his speed and abilities are far outmatched by what PA's give that it should not be a concern.

This accounts for light personal shields of course, there are creative ways to use shields which may be the concern (Area shields, force fields, heavy shields, shields that self-recharge too fast, etc).

One good idea may be that stronger shields can't recharge on their own, or don't let shields charge on their own all together and require a plug in power source since they should be small, or with a small generator that takes a long period to charge.

As near as I can tell, the implementation of it would be largely situational, likely as a compliment to unpowered body armour or as an example of low profile armour. I mean, there are plenty of situations where where you would want protection but for various reasons wearing power armour would be impractical. Like has been pointed out, it'd be excellent for VIPs or police where the cost factor and/or intimidation factor of full power armour is undesirable. So they're not so much PA replacements, since a suit of power armour offers much more than just the ability to mount a shield (power assist, heavy armour for when the shield fails, enhanced mobility, greater weapon options, etc). They might be useful for light infantry, depending on what the system would cost relative to a suit of power armour, but for the most part they'd see use for non battlefield roles. MPs in the military, civilian police forces, perhaps garrison troops, that would be the use for it.

It's just like how despite the fact that we can develop armour that can stop armour piercing rounds (class IV body armour), there's still an extensive market for armour that can only stop smaller rounds. So the PA still rule supreme over the battlefield for their mix of survivability, manoeuvrability and firepower. But personal shields would allow for conventional foot infantry to survive at least a little while on the battlefield. They wouldn't be a mainstay by any means, but it would allow more tactical options, either from the perspective of allowing you to field troops in desperation without it being straight up suicide or simply being able to field more troops with less training (takes less time to train someone to turn on a shield and hug cover than to pilot a PA after all) and potentially less cost.

And I should add, given the issues of bulk and the like I don't expect personal shields to be nearly as effective as what's mounted on even the lightest of PAs. I'd expect 5 points of protection to be about the max that could be made, at least initially. I don't really see it changing the feel of the setting very much. It's not like Hanako is going to get into a punch up with a Ripper in her evening dress and be able to survive just because she has a shield belt on. It just offers a few more avenues for GMs and players.

Just my $0.02 as I try and move to posting in more than just a handful of forums here.

Brb, doing this. The slow blade pierces the shield, etc.

You must control the spice first, Exhack!

-Rides a Sandworm back into the thread.-

Man, I just made a twenty thumper journey to see this thread being necro'd? I thought we'd let this sleeping dog lie. But it looks like someone's going to end up making Tio Holtzman's shield's a reality. Sub-atomic detonations ho!

A week is necromancy? In my defence, I haven't slept in approaching 28 hours now, so I didn't notice how far down it was. But I'd like to pretend that I did raise a good point. If nothing else, it gives you an excuse to scream out "I WILL KILL HIM!" as you fight in your very best blue speedo.

Though you'll have to forgive me for pretending that none of the prequel books exist. And yes, I put the Lynch film above the prequels.

Just so long as they don't make us all look like Steve, and, the Harkonnen Thong will haunt my dreams forever.

I had actually briefly pondered making some sort of shields for non-armored personnel, but I think, for SARP's setting, it isn't really all that needed. I can see where they could be used, but that's mostly left unplayed by the majority of plots.

Honestly I think the whole personal shield thing just needs to be buried. Because as it stands we'll have factions suddenly begin to make them stating they had the capacity to do so with no prior reasoning put into it. Just because they can. I can see it leading up to the point of such devices, but out of the blue it leaves one questioning why they're being made. And Rule of Cool only takes one so far before Rule of Ridiculousness takes effect.

Well, the basic underlying tech is there and mature. It's just a matter of taking a light force field and divorcing it from a power armoured suit into a vest or body suit. Introducing it tomorrow would be silly, of course. But announcing that NAM or Origin was developing it, or even soliciting early bids for a formerly secret program entering the prototype phase. Phasing it in so that it's ready to be used in a few months wouldn't tip the balance much. There's a middle ground between the old 'instant new tech' development cycle from a few years back and having to wait years for something that's basically a child development of existing tech.

And like I pointed out, it doesn't need to be overpowering to still be useful. Sure it won't stop an HPAR round or a ather lance, but it's not intended to stand up to power armour anyway. It's to give the civilian plots something useful and provide a background detail that GMs can use for storytelling or to introduce a new challenge.

Well. Let me ask you a question. A simple one considering I've been asking myself the samething for the last couple hours now.

Is it necessary, needed, or wanted?

That's a bit more valid a question and one that there seems to be some disagreement with. I personally don't have any use for it, but then despite my post count at the moment I'm effectively a newbie. But there's nothing about it that is impossible given SARP's general tech level. So I think that having it available as a tool for GMs makes sense. It's not overpowered if implemented smartly, nor would it really alter the tone of the setting any (you're not going to see anyone use a personal shield to take on an Aggressor after all). But I'll admit that it's up to the GMs to decide if they want it. I just don't believe in locking something away when there's a use for it that won't screw over the metaplot. And making a person in civvies able to take a few rounds doesn't sound earth shattering to me.

It doesn't seem much of a leap for Nekovalkyrja to start using their gravity manipulation for defense, especially in light of this thread. Personal shields are certainly within the realm of possibility for future Nekovalkyrja.

I can see a market for limited personal shield devices that have their capabilities well documented, especially for races that are not so durable.

Excuse me, but I have a concern here.

Previously, when gravity manipulation was used as a defense against projectiles by a NH-27, it did nearly nothing, and this was against Nepleslian assault-rifle grade chemically propelled munitions. Trust me, I was there writing in that scene.

Previously, a character, a player, and the community was penalized because of a scene in which a character used a personal shield to defeat incoming small arms fire. When that took place, the GM response was to blind that character with a flash-bang, then send the character off-ship, then institute new rules banning the use of magic and psionics to make personal shields go away.

Tradition indicates that personal shields and similar effects are frowned upon. Its bad form, something like when you're playing cops and robbers, saying that the cop didn't get you because you're wearing Level IV body armor plates. It makes for characters that have too much power for a personal non-PA confrontation.

However, if personal shields do come into play, I'm sure that I'll be able to demonstrate these issues in the finest traditions of me being me.

Personally, the issue there sounds more like one of pulling the capability out of one's rear than the actual ability to stop a bullet. If it's properly codified with the strengths and weaknesses set out before hand, then it's no different than wearing a bullet proof vest.

To use your cops and robbers example, there's nothing wrong with surviving being shot because you're wearing a bulletproof vest. But you a) have to have said that you were wearing the vest before you were shot and b) have to know that just having protection doesn't make you invulnerable. So in the case of Nekos using gravity manipulation to deflect bullets, make it something they can't maintain and that's not perfectly effective.

I would've thought given what physicists in the real world are learning about the universe, gravity manipulation technology would be of greater interest to a highly advanced space faring civilization than photon or ion manipulation.

Tossing a line onto the gravity manipulation issue for NH, I just want to remind everyone of the basic principle; when there is an action, there is an equal but opposite reaction. A force.

In order for a gravity-based shield, or an NH, to stop a bullet, the NH would have to provide a very precise opposite force at exactly the right time in exactly the right direction. It seems impractical to me.

I know there are forcefields in use in SARP though I'm not exactly sure how they work.

If your willing to have it be an actual peice of equipment, I would personally see no reason as to why a Sheild Gauntlet wouldn't do the trick just fine. Honestly, it would do more than enough should your twitchy, paranoid average citizen of Yamatai ACTUALLY get attacked by a gun given my current idea of Yamatai Guncrime.

It would also be as effective on Neps, given if you are a law abiding citizen, and don't meddle in gang affairs you shouldn't need more than that.Sure you have to actually you know... Defend yourself but you are still technically defended, with a sheild, that you can deploy should shit hit the fan. Just hope no one hired to assassinate you.