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Approved Submission Infinity∞Gate Corporation

This suggestion has been implemented. Votes are no longer accepted.

A few things I was thinking about here​

  • After looking at this I think FMs from the factions you are placing gates in their systems should have a say in which systems etc
  • A step further, I think this is a chance for some international RP - Your company should IC negotiate with leaders of the nations and systems you intend to put gates in. Who is paying to install these?
  • I think there should be an actual tech submission associated with the gate's design as well.
  • So not willing to put my FM stamp for Yamatai on this quite yet.
 
  • After looking at this I think FMs from the factions you are placing gates in their systems should have a say in which systems etc

That probably would be @Wes for Yamatai and Hidden Sun Clan and @Alex Hart for the NDC. I mentioned it to them and they didn't seem to have any objections. However, I'll ping them for their approval.

  • A step further, I think this is a chance for some international RP - Your company should IC negotiate with leaders of the nations and systems you intend to put gates in. Who is paying to install these?

So the first six gates are build with seed money and the sales of stock. If someone was interested in doing a RP like that, I'd like to do it, but I don't know if there is intrest.
  • I think there should be an actual tech submission associated with the gate's design as well.

I'm not really sure what would be a part of that. But I suppose it can be done.

Is this a new form of faster than light travel?

No, there are several wormhole networks that have been used previously in SARP and Wormhole travel is listed on the guide to FTL. The tech is described as descended from previous similar technologies.
 
If you wanna do some RP setting it up, Noval would be interested in having a share. I was thinking of having them make gates a while back, but being a shareholder sounds much more interesting!
 
Andrew is an FM for Yamatai and is the submission reviewer and he's already evaluating this so I'll let him handle it.
 
I don't have any objection to the Mining Guild paying for a gate in their system, though I do have to ask how much it costs to buy into the program, and what transit costs are.
 
Now that it is cleared up,

  • I've always seen Gate Systems as something that we would use for extremely long distances, for example from a secured system in the Empire to say another Sector outside of the Kikyo Sector. We have starships that have hyperspace drives that can transit through the area quite regularly. I think making instant gate transit between systems further defeats the limitations in the setting.
  • Is the Department of Immigration performing checks on ships passing through these gates that go between sovereign nations?
  • Who owns the gates? Who is paying to use them? We have hyperspace drives.
  • I feel this could also be a security risk. Can we turn the gate off to a system if we want?
The points above, however, the main point is. I think this would be great over long hauls but we have ships for a reason.

Added - I also think a tech submission would be needed, it is a structure and therefore it and its technology should be defined.
 
If you wanna do some RP setting it up, Noval would be interested in having a share. I was thinking of having them make gates a while back, but being a shareholder sounds much more interesting!

Sounds great, I'll send you a PM.


I don't have any objection to the Mining Guild paying for a gate in their system, though I do have to ask how much it costs to buy into the program, and what transit costs are.

I don't have specific costs in mind. It's overall a flexible system that is comparable to a tollway or shipping cargo by train. An individual transit is probably in the range of tens to hundreds, but a large ship may pay thousands. For a Freegate, It is probably in the range of tens of millions to hundreds of millions. Like with similar infrastructure project in the real world, it depends.


  • I've always seen Gate Systems as something that we would use for extremely long distances, for example from a secured system in the Empire to say another Sector outside of the Kikyo Sector. We have starships that have hyperspace drives that can transit through the area quite regularly. I think making instant gate transit between systems further defeats the limitations in the setting.

So the Gate system is not instantaneous, there is still travel time as outlined in the FTL guide. It is roughly about ten times faster than using a hyperspace drive. The Gate network has a trade off, travel much faster but only between two points that are fixed while in use. It is perhaps a similar trade off between using a train and using a truck. Because of the trade offs, I disagree that it defeats the limitations of the setting.

  • Is the Department of Immigration performing checks on ships passing through these gates that go between sovereign nations?

Yes.
  • Who owns the gates? Who is paying to use them? We have hyperspace drives.

Infinity∞Gate owns the gates. Tollgates are paid for by ships that want to use them. Corporations/governments might negotiate for a fleet discount on Tollgates. Freegates are paid for by the organization or government that wants to make the gate free to use. As I mentioned, there are trade offs between hyperspace drives and Tollgates that I feel makes them relevantly different. I'll reiterate that this isn't new technology any more than a new car company is going to use fundamentally new technology. It's a corporation using what is already found in the setting and playing by the rules in the Wiki.
  • I feel this could also be a security risk. Can we turn the gate off to a system if we want?

Shutting down and moving gates is something that takes some effort to do without blowing them up, but is possible. Infinity∞Gate is headquartered in Yamatai and follows it's laws.


I think this would be great over long hauls but we have ships for a reason.

I don't disagree that they are going to be great over long hauls. I do plan for them to go to other sectors when those are established. However, ships are necessary to use the Tollgates and offer certain advantages over them. (like being able to go wherever your want rather than a set group of destinations.)

I also think a tech submission would be needed, it is a structure and therefore it and its technology should be defined.


 
I don't read that in the Astral Locksmith's description. They are tasked with "safeguarding of Free State technological secrets." However, Gate Wormholes fall under general technology, not secrets. (anymore than say an internal combustion engine is a Ford secret. Ford certainly has secrets, but the internal combustion engine isn't one of them.) Essia has a Ley Line gate already, so it is the primary reference they used along with other similar technologies. (Like say someone who worked at Ford and Subaru liking how Ford did their stuff when making their own car company.)
 
Not gatekeeping I swear but I think the astral locksmisths would foam at the mouth if not about someone co-opting leyline travel since they maintain and even control it to a degree and are very xenophobic, but also using it to any advantage to yamatai in any way. It was before my time so I dont know the validity but ive been told by more than a couple of people that in the past that the ley lines were never to be intended for non-spacer use Ic or OOC.

Also if this is in doubt can always tag the default acting spacer FM @Primitive Polygon on the matter who should prob be consulted ever for anything related to spacer use in general~

Also, Why not base it off Neps Z-gate network as an example or framework which has been around a while now and would make sense to have newer, more modern competition?
 
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Astral Locksmith operatives would indeed turn up and murder the CEO/blow up the gates if the technology was even *compatible* with theirs. They have even done this to other spacers in the past... Though in the player meta, this state of affairs came about because this tech can be used for dirt cheap super weapons.

That said, I don't think meta verboten situations feel good from a lore standpoint.

At the very least I would suggest laying some strict ground rules for how it works, so things don't get out of hand. Maybe it only works at larange points, requires massive immobile stations to power, e.t.c.

I would be happy to use a free spacer consultant character to initiate negotiations, or perhaps make a new auxillary organisation to guard against gate hacking incursions. The alternative is biting the bullet and trying to negotiate with the Astral Locksmiths directly.
 
I have trouble seeing Yamatai, or well at minimum some regions of Yamatai being very hesitant to let this technology into their systems.

The event which people refer to as genocide wasn't just Yamatai launching an attack against the Freespacers mindlessly wiping out a bunch of them. There was gathered evidence that the Freespacers were going to try and hack PANTHEON for the Mishhu. I'm not going to say that all of Yamatai holds all the facts when it comes to that time period but I can promise you, there's no way this system would be accepted in the MCS. The Motoyoshi would absolutely shut down any idea of this, especially since (right or wrong) Katsuko believes in the orders she gave as Empress to have Yui take out the threat.

That all being said, this article - Tollgate on Star Army Space Roleplay tells us nothing about these gates. It doesn't explain what they're made out of, what powers them, or what other systems are on them. This would be like any other article, like an article for a space station. Then comes down to the fact again, which is something Wes and I have discussed and that is we like Yamatai having starships with the FTL systems they have on them now, and these gates again change the way FTL would be done in the Kikyo Sector. I could see them being used to connecting the new Sector once it's done, but in terms of an in-sector network, I don't feel as the Yamatai FM that this fits Yamatai.

Per your answer Soban, it takes time to shut these gates down and that sounds like a massive security concern. I think if Yamatai as a nation did want these, if in some way Wes decided to disagree with my assessment that these aren't good for our faction, even then he would want it so Yamatai would be in full control of the Gates in their system, not having to wait for some corporation to handle it for them.

Summary

  • In terms of FM of Yamatai - These aren't good for the Yamatai Faction
  • In terms of the NTSE - Actual pages describing these GATEs would need to be submitted and initial deployment should be none, forcing you to have to roleplay out getting consent for each system they will go in with the leaders of the factions affected.
 
As setting manager my suggestions to make this work I think we should:
  • Put gates next to known 1-2 Leyline access points for spacer convenience but don't physically connect the networks so spacers feel safe
  • Put gates in Yamatai in places the Star Army is strong at but not in military-only systems like Nataria. We can simply guard them. No biggie. In dire circumstances the Izanagi or Iori parked in front of the gate can "manually" take the gate offline by force.
 
As setting manager my suggestions to make this work I think we should:
  • Put gates next to known 1-2 Leyline access points for spacer convenience but don't physically connect the networks so spacers feel safe
  • Put gates in Yamatai in places the Star Army is strong at but not in military-only systems like Nataria. We can simply guard them. No biggie. In dire circumstances the Izanagi or Iori parked in front of the gate can "manually" take the gate offline by force.
That certainly works.
 
It's worth noting that there are likely hidden/forgotten gates in Yam space already, due to the utility of the IWL transporting troops covertly. (Though that organisation is a small criminal/radical element at best these days, hence them being forgotten).

At one point I did compile a map of every one mentioned in RP, and there were a *lot*, but yeah.

It's been more than ten IRL years. I'd actually like to try and bury the hatchet, even if that means the Astral Locksmiths becoming some kind of Cinereal-worshiping cult rather than active militants/sabateours. It could be done. Nations can't stay angry at each other forever in real life... Well, not after both of their dirty laundry has been out in the open so long.
 
The auto quote is being annoying so you are getting > instead.

To answer @Primitive Polygon and @Charmaylarg Dufrain, I've updated the article to make it clearer that it's its own thing. It's a completely separate network and not compatible with Ley Line gates.

>The event which people refer to as genocide wasn't just Yamatai launching an attack against the Freespacers mindlessly wiping out a bunch of them. There was gathered evidence that the Freespacers were going to try and hack PANTHEON for the Mishhu. I'm not going to say that all of Yamatai holds all the facts when it comes to that time period .... The Motoyoshi would absolutely shut down any idea of this, especially since (right or wrong) Katsuko believes in the orders she gave as Empress to have Yui take out the threat.

>It's been more than ten IRL years. I'd actually like to try and bury the hatchet, even if that means the Astral Locksmiths becoming some kind of Cinereal-worshiping cult rather than active militants/sabateours. It could be done. Nations can't stay angry at each other forever in real life... Well, not after both of their dirty laundry has been out in the open so long.

To nip this in the bud I want to be absolutely clear that while this might involve some Freespacer mentions, I DO NOT want to rehash that in this thread. This is an interesting historical anecdote and noting more. I mentioned the Ley Lines because there is a Ley Line gate in Essia and so having a reference to it was cool. If you want to have it out about that issue, DO IT ELSEWHERE.

>there's no way this system would be accepted in the MCS.

Ok, I'll point the Jiyuu one elsewhere.

>It doesn't explain what they're made out of, what powers them, or what other systems are on them.

I'll be honest, I'm not particularly interested in the technical aspects. My answers are roughly "Probably same the stuff space stations. are made out of", "Probably the same stuff we use to power space stations.", "Probably the same stuff on space stations." If someone decides later that say they need to use some kind of rare crystal, we can add it when it becomes relevant to some plot. This isn't revolutionary or changing things in that aspect. It is a specific application of existing tech that I link to. I could copy and paste parts of the Z-Gate or other wormhole articles, but I don't think that's particularly useful. I have however added a picture of a Tollgate.

>Then comes down to the fact again, which is something Wes and I have discussed and that is we like Yamatai having starships with the FTL systems they have on them now, and these gates again change the way FTL would be done in the Kikyo Sector.

I disagree, there are trade offs with technology. It's better at some things like speed, but worse at other things like not visiting anything not on the network.

>Per your answer Soban, it takes time to shut these gates down and that sounds like a massive security concern.

It takes time to do anything. If other gates are quick to turn off, then they are going to be quick to turn off. If it takes a while for other gates to turn off, then they take a while to turn off. Like I'm on the side of "The speed of plot" things when it comes to questions like that.

>Put gates next to known 1-2 Leyline access points for spacer convenience but don't physically connect the networks so spacers feel safe

Essia has a Ley Line, so that is already done. I've clarified that they don't connect to the Ley Line network, they just use similar tech.

> Put gates in Yamatai in places the Star Army is strong at but not in military-only systems like Nataria. We can simply guard them. No biggie. In dire circumstances the Izanagi or Iori parked in front of the gate can "manually" take the gate offline by force.

Currently, all gate pairs link to Essia which has the Himitsu Star Fortress. Given that they are probably fairly close together and the range of the weapons on a Star Fortress, it can watch over them.

I think I caught all of the major points, but tell me if I didn't.
 
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Alright, I won't try and force involvement if you don't want it. I am way past the concept of the spacers being 'good guys', so this wasn't about that. Was only attempting to add some world building flavour. Peace.✌️
 
  • NTSE - The article for the gates themselves has to be of the same quality as any other structure built for the setting. What I would suggest you do, is use this thread to submit the corporation itself, then submit the gate articles. It may not be your technological forte, but there are plenty of people here to work with you on the articles that are willing to help, you don't need to go it alone. | The Corporation and the Gate, being the product should be two separate articles. Not budging on the submission guidelines.
  • FM-wise - I'm good with what Wes said about these going in non-military systems, as long as they are guarded by the Star Army.
  • My point about it being freespacer related wasn't to hash the semantics in an NTSE thread, it was merely to point out that not all in Yamatai share the same view on them.
  • Also, the part about none in the MCS, just because certain things are still culturally relevant to the Motoyoshi, won't be resolved by talking it out in an NTSE post it will take actual RP.
In terms of the corporation article:

 
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