Koenig808
Inactive Member
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IPG Operator M1-V
- Thread starter Koenig808
- Start date
Strangelove
Inactive Member
I can't say I'm keen about how this rifle uses NATO and Soviet Bloc calibers; I thought SARP made it a policy to stray away from (obvious) direct Earth references.
.50 cal pistol rounds seem utterly redundant in SARP. Since these rounds typically produce very high recoil (JHP Magnum rounds have approx. 150% the energy of Soviet 7.62mm rounds upon launch), their accuracy would be horrendous as you reflected. The problem is hollow-tipped rounds would have awful armor-piercing capacity in an age where armored suits are the norm. While they could be used against infantry, other rounds could still do similar damage at much farther ranges with much greater accuracy. I can really only see hollow-tipped .50 cal rounds being used for hunting big game animals and the like in terms of being combat-effective. Might I suggest shotgun shells instead? They provide a much higher hit change against unarmored targets with much less recoil (so can thereby be fired rapidly without knocking your rifle all over the place).
Another point is redundancy. You have two bullets of similar calibers, the only difference being one is slightly more accurate and one has slightly more kinetic punch. I think that being fired from the same rifle the difference would be fairly negligible; the maintenance and complexity of a modular weapon system would add (in comparison to a fixed rifle) for a slight change in performance doesn't really seem worth the effort, from an engineering standpoint.
Well, these are just my thoughts on the matter. Keep in mind above points are in regards to what I know about physics/engineering and not from practical firearms experience, so I may be wrong on some of the above points.
.50 cal pistol rounds seem utterly redundant in SARP. Since these rounds typically produce very high recoil (JHP Magnum rounds have approx. 150% the energy of Soviet 7.62mm rounds upon launch), their accuracy would be horrendous as you reflected. The problem is hollow-tipped rounds would have awful armor-piercing capacity in an age where armored suits are the norm. While they could be used against infantry, other rounds could still do similar damage at much farther ranges with much greater accuracy. I can really only see hollow-tipped .50 cal rounds being used for hunting big game animals and the like in terms of being combat-effective. Might I suggest shotgun shells instead? They provide a much higher hit change against unarmored targets with much less recoil (so can thereby be fired rapidly without knocking your rifle all over the place).
Another point is redundancy. You have two bullets of similar calibers, the only difference being one is slightly more accurate and one has slightly more kinetic punch. I think that being fired from the same rifle the difference would be fairly negligible; the maintenance and complexity of a modular weapon system would add (in comparison to a fixed rifle) for a slight change in performance doesn't really seem worth the effort, from an engineering standpoint.
Well, these are just my thoughts on the matter. Keep in mind above points are in regards to what I know about physics/engineering and not from practical firearms experience, so I may be wrong on some of the above points.
Like an F2000 for the SARP. In fact, it has some of the same statistics (most notably weight).
The 7.62 x 51 mm is not a Soviet caliber (it's also NATO), but it doesn't matter -- the SARP already has a rifle that uses that caliber, so it gets to stay (but as 7.62 x 51 mm KZ).
5.56 x 45 mm goes, however.
The .50-caliber Handgun caliber -- that goes to the HHG, right? If you really want it, you can keep it. It will have less recoil than the 7.62 x 51 mm round, I guarantee that, but I have to ask, why even have that as an option? The ammunition will be scarce and there's nothing it can do that 7.62 mm (.30-caliber) can't do better.
The shotgun idea Jessica proposes is a good one. You'd have plenty of room to include BOTH of those weapons with a little change in the art to show the second barrel. It's a very bulky weapon right now, weight withstanding.
If you can, do away completely with the changeable receivers. No soldier's going to want to deal with that.
The ranges on the 7.62 round are ... well, you're using a 27-inch barrel, which is pretty good for a small assault rifle. The problem is that's impossible -- you're not accounting for the rifle's internal bolt, which should shave off at least six inches off your barrel, if not more. That cuts your barrel down farther, but theoretically it could still hit a target 550 meters away. Just don't expect it too often -- the old GP1 is still a better sniper weapon.
You realize this thing's not ambidextrous, right? Steal from the F2000 and put the ejection port forward of the gun, below the barrel. Easy thing to draw in.
The 7.62 x 51 mm is not a Soviet caliber (it's also NATO), but it doesn't matter -- the SARP already has a rifle that uses that caliber, so it gets to stay (but as 7.62 x 51 mm KZ).
5.56 x 45 mm goes, however.
The .50-caliber Handgun caliber -- that goes to the HHG, right? If you really want it, you can keep it. It will have less recoil than the 7.62 x 51 mm round, I guarantee that, but I have to ask, why even have that as an option? The ammunition will be scarce and there's nothing it can do that 7.62 mm (.30-caliber) can't do better.
The shotgun idea Jessica proposes is a good one. You'd have plenty of room to include BOTH of those weapons with a little change in the art to show the second barrel. It's a very bulky weapon right now, weight withstanding.
If you can, do away completely with the changeable receivers. No soldier's going to want to deal with that.
The ranges on the 7.62 round are ... well, you're using a 27-inch barrel, which is pretty good for a small assault rifle. The problem is that's impossible -- you're not accounting for the rifle's internal bolt, which should shave off at least six inches off your barrel, if not more. That cuts your barrel down farther, but theoretically it could still hit a target 550 meters away. Just don't expect it too often -- the old GP1 is still a better sniper weapon.
You realize this thing's not ambidextrous, right? Steal from the F2000 and put the ejection port forward of the gun, below the barrel. Easy thing to draw in.
Fian
Well-Known Member
HHG is .45, same as the ol Nepleslian Standard Issue Zen Arms .45.
Also, though, Koenig. Not everybody is capable of breaking down what the numbers mean. It would be nice if you described some of its specifications in words (Easily controllable, Good all round rifle, moderate cartridge, best for shooting neibhour's dog etc).
The art makes it look like it uses actual revolver rounds. It's using rimless rounds through, right? (I'm talking about the HHG.)
Fian
Well-Known Member
*Looks up wikipedia*
Well probably the Hybrid and MD only bullets are Rimmed. But it should also be able to accept Rimless (Moon clips FTW!)
Random semi-related question for Doshii.
Why dont they make this beautiful gun anymore?
Well probably the Hybrid and MD only bullets are Rimmed. But it should also be able to accept Rimless (Moon clips FTW!)
Random semi-related question for Doshii.
Why dont they make this beautiful gun anymore?
OsakanOne
Retired Member
My two cents:
This would make a very nice multi-purpose weapon with proper scoping, tacked against something like a 9mm high speed machine gun under the same casing.
Why? Explain. Recoil is easily negotiated with cybernetic modification or proper firing stance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWJp14tkBlU With proper air-flow management and high precision rifling, you can pick off targets at around 1km away or so. I'm sure with SARP tech, you could quite easily emulate the rifling with some manner of technology.
Do you even know how a hollow tipped round works? It wouldn't beat modern uber-armor unless such materials were used in its own construction but ghis thing would turn a Neko's head into a red cloud with ease. Keep in mind: Weapons are made for killing. Hollow tipped rounds do that beautifully and with these kind of speeds, it's just scary.
Your range is also destroyed. While most contemporary gunfights happen at 300 yards to 700 meters (with various weapon types maximized to take advantage of each range's characteristics) keep in mind that more armored targets like vehicles and structures need to be struck from further away so you're not immediately given away.
This would make a very nice multi-purpose weapon with proper scoping, tacked against something like a 9mm high speed machine gun under the same casing.
Osaka's right on some things, wrong on others.
You're not going to hit a target 1 kilometer away with the 7.62 mm cartridge. It just doesn't work that way. The round, if propelled in a traditional fashion that this round appears to utilize, will not have the proper aerodynamics to hit things a kilometer away. The bullet's too light to resist atmospheric changes; rifling will not fix that. .50-caliber Browning Machine Gun uses bullets that are at least twice the weight and carry a huge amount more in terms of powder charge, Osaka; it's not a fair comparison.
As for bullets defeating armor, they can and do -- at higher speeds. Which you won't get from this weapon. But FMJ rounds work fine; you don't need hollowpoints anyway.
As for range on shotguns, you're right, the range isn't as good. But shotguns work much better at close range than any other weapon available; it's a good weapon for starships and starbase corridors.
The machine gun you're thinking of doesn't exist, I think. You're talking about a 9 mm submachinegun, which uses a pistol round. Using a 9 mm rifle round will get you better range and killing power, but it defeats the purpose of having a 7.62 mm round.
You're not going to hit a target 1 kilometer away with the 7.62 mm cartridge. It just doesn't work that way. The round, if propelled in a traditional fashion that this round appears to utilize, will not have the proper aerodynamics to hit things a kilometer away. The bullet's too light to resist atmospheric changes; rifling will not fix that. .50-caliber Browning Machine Gun uses bullets that are at least twice the weight and carry a huge amount more in terms of powder charge, Osaka; it's not a fair comparison.
As for bullets defeating armor, they can and do -- at higher speeds. Which you won't get from this weapon. But FMJ rounds work fine; you don't need hollowpoints anyway.
As for range on shotguns, you're right, the range isn't as good. But shotguns work much better at close range than any other weapon available; it's a good weapon for starships and starbase corridors.
The machine gun you're thinking of doesn't exist, I think. You're talking about a 9 mm submachinegun, which uses a pistol round. Using a 9 mm rifle round will get you better range and killing power, but it defeats the purpose of having a 7.62 mm round.
Koenig808
Inactive Member
https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=m1-v
Removed different upper receivers.
Kept .50 Pistol as a conversion kit for later.
Added Underbarrel 12 Gauge Shotgun.
7.62x52MM KZ Only, 2 round burst now.
Ejection port forward of weapon.
Removed different upper receivers.
Kept .50 Pistol as a conversion kit for later.
Added Underbarrel 12 Gauge Shotgun.
7.62x52MM KZ Only, 2 round burst now.
Ejection port forward of weapon.
2-round burst is better anyway, I think. Good show there.
I changed your barrel length to something more accurate. 20 inches.
This submission is recommended for approval.
I changed your barrel length to something more accurate. 20 inches.
This submission is recommended for approval.
