Approved Submission Ke-M12-P4600 Heavy Lift Teleportation Unit

[raz]

Submission RP Example

https://stararmy.com/roleplay-forum/threads/mission-28-akuma.71265/page-4#post-444055

Submission URL

https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=stararmy:equipment:ke-m12-p4600

Submission Faction(s)

1. Yamatai (except Elysia)

Submission Terms

1. I agree

Used in Kaiyo. Developed in RP since last year because SARA/KFY had forgotten about the Transfer Chamber until the Liberation of Hanako's World.

It gives Thought Armors the ability to keep up when their fellow Mindy 4s teleport. And further gives squads that have a Thought Armor the ability to mass teleport in concert.

 

[Ametheliana]

This was really useful in RP when we had armors that couldn't teleport and to get everyone teleporting to the same region as a group, so thanks for using Kaiyo as the test bed, of sorts.

 

[raz]

This was really useful in RP when we had armors that couldn't teleport and to get everyone teleporting to the same region as a group

Thank you for bringing this up. Non-teleporting armors also include allies from Nepleslia we have on the Kaiyo, as well as many we might meet during the Third Mishhu War. So I'll try to add a mention of that purpose.

 

[Rizzo]

Candon did this on Eucharis once. Took direct control of the teams teleporters and had them take position around a computer server cluster we couldn't hack. Teleported the server into space. Cool to see a big teleporter that can bring multiple units along with it.

 

[raz]

Candon did this on Eucharis once. Took direct control of the teams teleporters and had them take position around a computer server cluster we couldn't hack. Teleported the server into space. Cool to see a big teleporter that can bring multiple units along with it.

That is kind of similar narratively, to be honest. This relies on its own power to bring along teleport-incapable rather than slaving multiple Mindy armors to a single algorithm. The IC consideration was mostly because the Kaiyo, which has Uchuugun Space Infantry, brings along a NSMC Cyclops armor that an exchange officer uses. Things like Daisys didn't even come into the IC thought process because they're for the Rikugun, but are inherently considered due to them being a consideration 10+ years ago when the Asamoya's Transfer Chamber was made.

Changelog note: I added a sentence reflecting the above to the article.

 

[Andrew]

3 Day Approval Timer 2024-02-11

 

[raz]

Thanks for taking the time to come around and do some RP and approvals, Andrew!

 

[Soban]

I said I was going to say something here, and other than my general dislike of the insane ranges of teleportation tech (which isn't Raz's problem) I'm pretty fine with it.

 

[FrostJaeger]

Might as well contribute my two cents, then, as I also think that the range of the teleportation module (5 Astronomical units, which converts to 747,989,355 kilometers or 464,779,037.3 miles) is too high - not because I don’t get along OOCly with raz, but because I genuinely don’t think that teleportation technology in the Star Army setting should have such humongous ranges.

The thought process behind said belief is simple: the reason the Ke-M2-P2900 Power Armor Teleportation Unit and the Ke-M2-P3000 Power Armor Teleportation Unit have a staggering 3 AUs (448,793,613 kilometers/278,867,422.4 miles) of range is - to the best of my knowledge - because they were created during the pre-DRv3 era when power armors were frequently used in lieu of starfighters for space combat, which required extensive ranges for various reasons, such as the vast speeds most armors and vehicles in the setting are capable of attaining in space and the sheer ranges most space-borne weapons possess. Post-DRv3, such incredibly high teleportation ranges are simply not necessary due to the fact that as far as I know starfighters are the primary instruments of non-starship space combat, while power armors are typically used as superheavy (and super-mobile) infantry, which the Ke-M2-P4003 Power Armor Teleportation Unit does a better job of assisting with in my opinion due to its shorter range (1,000,000 kilometers/621,371.1922 miles) and faster charge time. Because of this, I believe that the Ke-M12-P4600 Heavy Lift Teleportation Unit should have a maximum range of 15,000,000 kilometers (roughly a tenth of an AU) and should certainly not have a maximum range greater then 3 AU - because, well, is anything past 448,793,613 kilometers (which, mind you, is a really freakin’ huge number!) really necessary in a day and age where power armors are the vast majority of the time used as infantry?

tl;dr: I believe the Ke-M12-P4600 HTLU’s max range should be reduced from 5 AU to 0.1 AU (or at most 3 AU) because PAs aren’t used as starfighters anymore.

If you want me to move this into a different thread for being too much of a derailment, @Wes, please let me know and I’ll do so.

Lastly, this post is not meant to cause drama. Please don’t misconstrue it as such.

 

[raz]

I based this on the Ke-M2-P2900 and Ke-M2-P3000 as technological predecessors, both of which state: “Range: About 3 AU. Longer jumps could be made with the help of a starship IES.”

And guess what? The Thought armors use a CIES. Hence the 5 AU upgrade.

Further, both technologies are over 10 years old. The narrative establishes the baseline for what we have already developed in Yamatai. Newer tech shouldn’t be worse.

Therefore I will not be changing it based on ill-informed requests that seek to nerf Yamatai/Yamatai adjacent technology before it’s even approved. A Yamataian FM initiated the approval timer, and a second Yamataian FM voiced their support.

Please don’t come in and ruin another one of my submissions like happened with the EUNA because you don’t like it when the site’s titular faction has good technology that improves over the course of a decade.

 

[FrostJaeger]

I wouldn’t say my requests were ill-informed - not when I specifically linked the exact same articles you yourself referenced. I also didn’t even post in the Euna thread - nor did I ever talk with Alex about it - and the reason that one ran into difficulty is because you tried to break the Speed Standard rules which have been around for many years at this point. I should know - I’m the one who updated them in 2017.

Lastly, my concern had nothing to do with technology improving - one could argue that being able to cram something with this submission’s capabilities onto power armor (even if the range was reduced to 3 AU) is a clear sign of technology improving - but instead was based on narrative reasons that have yet to be addressed.

And as for “newer tech being worse,” what about the Ke-M2-P4003? I’m willing to bet none of the people who’ve used it in roleplay would say it’s worse compared to the P2900 or P3000, despite its vastly shorter range.

Apologies if this is a bit rambly - I quite literally just woke up. >v<

 

[Rizzo]

I wouldn’t say my requests were ill-informed - not when I specifically linked the exact same articles you yourself referenced. I also didn’t even post in the Euna thread - nor did I ever talk with Alex about it - and the reason that one ran into difficulty is because you tried to break the Speed Standard rules which have been around for many years at this point. I should know - I’m the one who updated them in 2017.

Lastly, my concern had nothing to do with technology improving - one could argue that being able to cram something with this submission’s capabilities onto power armor (even if the range was reduced to 3 AU) is a clear sign of technology improving - but instead was based on narrative reasons that have yet to be addressed.

And as for “newer tech being worse,” what about the Ke-M2-P4003? I’m willing to bet none of the people who’ve used it in roleplay would say it’s worse compared to the P2900 or P3000.

Apologies if this is a bit rambly - I quite literally just woke up. >v<

You make good points about uber tech in SARP. Not much that can be done about it but all the same.
The ranges these ships are fighting at in space battles are truly massive and when those shields drop is the moment the opposition wants it's boarding team going to work.
In this situation the range makes sense, and since the physics will never actually add up..

 

[FrostJaeger]

Fair enough, actually, and that’s something I admittedly never even considered. Consider my narrative concerns resolved, then.

 

[demibear]

I based this on the Ke-M2-P2900 and Ke-M2-P3000 as technological predecessors, both of which state: “Range: About 3 AU. Longer jumps could be made with the help of a starship IES.”

And guess what? The Thought armors use a CIES. Hence the 5 AU upgrade.

Further, both technologies are over 10 years old. The narrative establishes the baseline for what we have already developed in Yamatai. Newer tech shouldn’t be worse.

Therefore I will not be changing it based on ill-informed requests that seek to nerf Yamatai/Yamatai adjacent technology before it’s even approved. A Yamataian FM initiated the approval timer, and a second Yamataian FM voiced their support.

Please don’t come in and ruin another one of my submissions like happened with the EUNA because you don’t like it when the site’s titular faction has good technology that improves over the course of a decade.

The approval timer is there for people to voice their opinions, otherwise it would just be approved on the spot. Let's be civil.

 

[Rizzo]

Actually, old boy Frosty got my thinking now.
The M12 and M13 are for all real practicality 7’ 6” (2.3 meters), it's only the guns that make it 9' tall.
The M2 series stands 5' - 6'2" (I'm a Yank so we're doin' this crap in feet.).
That give the T6's here only 2'6" extra height plus the added girth of being bigger. Accounting for all of the parts being bigger too that means the extra space it would have for the teleporter is greatly diminished, thus the need for it to be an external unit, but all of that demands more power on the generator which is powering everything already and even a single AU is massive sooo....

@raz The advantage of being able to carry a squad into battle is big on its own. In the spirit of reducing power creep in our already insane setting maybe consider tradeoffs?
I'd suggest:

1. 3 AU while carrying troops/payload/whatever up to 5000KG.
2. 4 AU running solo with the guidance of a starship.

I feel this would lessen the power creep. Not to mention 1 AU can bring you from Earth to the fracking sun!

 

[raz]

No thanks. I’m not interested in changing this on the basis of gamification. Technology gets better over time, not worse, especially when it is Yamataian technology.

 

[Rizzo]

No thanks. I’m not interested in changing this on the basis of gamification. Technology gets better over time, not worse, especially when it is Yamataian technology.

Also a good point. It is gamification and this old tech in Yamatai. In truth this really won't hurt anything. Seeing as a boarding action requires shields are dropped first.

 

[Ametheliana]

Honestly, decreasing it from 5 AU to .5 AU is 100% gamification, just not in Yamatai's favor. Glad everyone could come to a consensus and let's try to keep the submission clear of out loud pondering and just anything critical for a reviewer to see while they make their call.

 

[Soban]

I disagree that it's gamification. Gamification is about adding numbers and rules where they don't help or make sense. This is very much more about changing the 'feel' of teleportation by adjusting an already existing number. I'd prefer lower, but I don't get the sense that's going to change.

 

[raz]

Before I upload this to the wiki, let me know if it works as an image for this backpack module @Wes @Andrew

Used --sref from a Keiko to get the colors and lines right.