Approved Submission [Lazarus] Hard-Light Volumetric Projections

Loved reading this.

Under Review

Really?

I like your write up! Is there a significant difference between this and Solid Volumetrics(https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=solid_volumetrics)? I imagine one or the other should be the default if this gets accepted?

@Ames:
Yes: This uses absolutely no other materials other than light to form the projection whatsoever: The solid object *IS* photons -- wheras solid volumetrics aren't actually hard-light: They're plasmate projections.

As a result, while solid volumetrics are mechanically very weak and only really suitable for interfaces, hard-light is suitable for a huge array of tasks. In addition, the projector is much smaller despite being more energy intense, so it can be mobile wheras a solid volumetric projector is massive and stationary.

One of the usages I'm playing with as a prototypical thing for a sort of "boss fight" should anyone step into Lazarus turf is this: a vehicle who's many hulls are held together with this stuff and are reconfigurable.

Importantly to note, hard-light is ordinarily invisible unless you actually configure it for use as a display -- though light passing through it can be refracted.

@Kal:
The rectification effect isn't a physical principle but a topological principle in mathematics:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectifiable_set
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectification_(geometry)

It essentially means when you break off a vertices, you seal the hole -- and in some situations, introduce new vertecies in an attempt to replicate not the old topology but the old form. Its actually the backbone of forming new topology when you're done modelling -- topology being how geometry describes a form or surface. Its also the process behind stretching fabric to seal rips and holes -- and whether or not you stretch the fabric or patch it.

Left: Bad topology: Inconsistent vertex placement, inconsistent descriptors, n-gons (polygons with more than four edges), poor poly-consistency (jumping from four to three to five).
Right: Good topology. Equidistant vertex placement, consistent descriptors. Always four vertex per polygon.

Many of the same principles which apply to polygons actually apply to molecules in chemestry, especially in lattices, crystals and hard surfaces -- but the topology is three dimensional, rather than just a superficial surface.

I use it here as any component which fixes a toppling or destabilised arrangement of particles: Say for example, the main conductor of the aura style aetheric generator. If its particle arrangement is off, the aeonic rectifier -- a very precise electromagnet, rearranges them and ensures it doesn't collapse, then introduces and ties in aeons.

This would be a photonic rectifier: A device which does exactly the same but in photonic molecules, using different techniques.

I feel like we should probably make this a general article (faction-neutral) and then have a linked/backlinked article for the specific mechanism/design used by Lazarus.

Good explanation. I like the approach where you take standard 3D modeling and apply it to real space. It's always sort of worked that way in my head, but I'm not familiar enough with the process to have described it as such. It also leaves the door open to go deeper down that path - if the hard light 'object' becomes animated, changes appearance, etc, you can explain that with modeling/rendering concepts as opposed to hand-wavey science magic (except where it is hand-wavey science magic, of course).

@Wes:
The SARP is already largely using a system that involves the use of condensed and locked arrangements of matter (...Atmosphere or cold plasma...) which the SARP conventionally have already explained.

This is a new solution which has entirely different applications and different mechanisms and I designed it in mind as a direct market competitor with existing systems as a disruptive technology and used properly with older existing technologies, a potential force multiplier

I actually designed it as a way to make an adhoc chemical distillation and refinement plant that can change the 'equipment' it has and never ever needs re-coating, treatment or maintenance. Usually when a company switch purposes for piping or tubing one have to recoat it because the former chemicals introduce contaminants. Ontop of that, its a natural semiconductor for electromagnetic and electrostatic force. Hardlight is an industrial chemists wet dream.

The other uses came afterwards as a secondary but are tremendous: Factories, ways of holding hull elements together, frameworks for construction, ad-hoc temporary armour structures, computer systems. Communications equipment. Variable length rail-weapons. Physically non-connected structures. Its a game-changer.

As I said: this would be functionally disruptive. No solid volumetrics anywhere in the setting have ever done anything resembling this so far in terms of their functionality.

I know in the SARP we're not fond of company contracts but this is a new thing, not an existing thing, entering the market. Its patented. If anyone want to use it, they have to play ball legally.

Lazarus don't cherrypick their contracts: Money is money and they don't care where it comes from: A large part of their business is having ways of making sure nobody else knows where it comes from, either. Lifting trade restrictions would be even better.

When it becomes a general use technology, it'll become a general use article.

I won't approve this. I'd rather not have it in the setting than have it only available to Lazarus.

"I can't have it, you can't have it either. So there!"

Really Wes? Really? Is it just a matter of being envious of something better than what Yamatai has? Because man, that's kinda sketchy.

Honestly, as I've told Kyle who had a similar concern; just because Lazarus has theirs, does not mean that it is purely a lazarus exclusive design concept. Nothing is stopping Yamatai from building their own, if they can. Really, it is genuinely insulting to forcefully demand someone surrender something to your faction to be used when they did the work of writing it, and putting their faction in a position to be able to create such a technology piece.

On the other hand, is everyone free to use Yamatai technology now? Can we all use Nekovalkryja? Hemosynth? Zesuaium for everyone? Nodal devices as well? Because this "Do as I say, not as I do" is kind of a slap in the face, when Osaka did her share of work to get what Lazarus has.

PS Edit: I'll articulate better when I'm not messed up on pain medication, but, I think this is accurately 'to the point'.

Only available to Lazarus? At what point was that said anywhere?

Lazarus is a business, not a nation.

Are Yamatai's core technologies that they haven't evolved in nearly half a decade for sale publicly? Noooope~!

In fact, for trying to equalise the market, Yui made the consortium out to be lying thieves and made a fan for life out of one Aiesu Kalopsia who now has closet fantasies about what would happen if she were actually caught for her dealings with the group. I think she handled it quite well for someone who at the time was still living under her father's roof.

The consortium in this case are one step better than Yamatai:
If you want it, it is for sale. No exceptions.

Even if its under the table, to sell this technology to Yamatai is no problem at all -- or whoever else wants it, provided its at a fair price.

As I said: Money is money and the consortium is very good at making the lines from seller to customer ~disappear~!

How can anyone argue when the company is willing to play ball?

And for their hard work developing this, shouldn't innovation be rewarded?

If Yamatai do build their own, you've got quite a bit of technical catching up to do. Even reverse-engineering it, they'd always be a step behind -- which could become troublesome if a race of countermeasures and counter-countermeasures began on the market - which is pretty much the inevitable case with all disruptive technologies.

--

The future is meant to be something to look forward to.

♫ Zone of the Enders: Anubis - Ardjet (Reprise)

I hear where Doc and Osaka are coming from, and Doc helped ease my concerns and Osaka has been quite helpful in explaining how this stuff works. Frankly, this kind of technology isn't something that can easily be restricted anyway and something that can be made by other factions. Thanks to Osaka's help, I am designing a similar system (though with slightly different methods) for the Neshies.

To that end, I see no reason why this shouldn't be approved. If Yamatai wants this tech, they can either purchase it from Lazarus or create their own, mind you reverse engineering of technology is a common practice and I can see people doing just that =)

Kyle said:

I hear where Doc and Osaka are coming from, and Doc helped ease my concerns and Osaka has been quite helpful in explaining how this stuff works. Frankly, this kind of technology isn't something that can easily be restricted anyway and something that can be made by other factions. Thanks to Osaka's help, I am designing a similar system (though with slightly different methods) for the Neshies.

To that end, I see no reason why this shouldn't be approved. If Yamatai wants this tech, they can either purchase it from Lazarus or create their own, mind you reverse engineering of technology is a common practice and I can see people doing just that =)

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Why is it so much of the SARP is against doing business with companies? You all seem to really adore producing your own clones of eachothers technologies rather than doing business with eachother (which would benefit you all tremendously). Just curious.

Ames said:

Good explanation. I like the approach where you take standard 3D modeling and apply it to real space. It's always sort of worked that way in my head, but I'm not familiar enough with the process to have described it as such. It also leaves the door open to go deeper down that path - if the hard light 'object' becomes animated, changes appearance, etc, you can explain that with modeling/rendering concepts as opposed to hand-wavey science magic (except where it is hand-wavey science magic, of course).

Click to expand...

Well, this is all based on real physical concepts. Resonance trapping does build photonic molecules and through the same process you can replicate Pauli's Exclusion Principle through their fermioelectrical interactions even though in technicality a photon is a boson, NOT a fermion, through probabilistic spin morphing (another property of resonance trapping).

But yeah: Topological properties -- meshes, alignments, lattices, etc -- can explain almost every interesting arrangement of particles. When stuff is uniform, its controllable and you can make it do work. This concept applies to most fundamental particles.

I can't, nor will I, speak for anyone's faction but my own. For the Neshies, its because they haven't gone into first contact with any other faction =P

This and the Neshaten already feel that utilizing another's technology is a recipe for disaster.

Would the advancement of their civilisation have come up with this on their own? If its been around for a while, their world should reflect the changes it would bring.

Just a general question:

Some of the uses you suggested for this tech have questionable cost/benefit ratios. Sure, it's convenient, but I would think the power draw (especially for larger applications, or those under constant stress) would make it less than feasible in those cases. For example- holding armor together would require it to support the weight of that armor, which would put a lot of stress on the system that was powering it, I would imagine. Even in space you'd be dealing with things like torque.

SARP's got some pretty impressive power generation tech (aether, for example), but in most cases I think you'd want to rely on something physical.

The 'coating' application you mentioned is actually a really smart one, though. Granted, you're still encountering all the previous problems, plus potentially extreme heat, but I'm familiar with that being an honest difficulty in the production of things like, say, oil from crude. Most refineries have to shut down every so often for a period typically spanning weeks, losing millions each day in the process. I grew up near one such facility.

None of this is a knock in any way against the tech we're discussing. I do think there's a risk that if the energy cost of this is too low, everyone will be running around building everything out of light soon enough for its implied benefits. My initial character leverages something like this, so I certainly have no problem with the concept of hard light.

When they hit their ideal point, they no longer need rectification and their energy cost/operation becomes manageable. I imagine them to excel in tasks of complex manipulation and containment. In the case of a machine, like I said: the photonic molecule can vary its properties.

The issue generally is that the surface is non-permanent and is quite fragile compared to SARP-era materials. You need a second means in place.

This is ideal for say for example: Producing a structure, then laminating that structure. When the lamination turns hard, you dissolve the structure and the lamination stays in place. This makes it wonderful for additive manufacturing techniques. Combined with a self-modifying metal (which aren't uncommon in the SARP) and some gravitational manipulation and you can quickly produce objects which are highly reconfigurable in ways which traditionally wouldn't be possible.

Say for example... A platform which rather than fingers and hands as a movable clamp and projected fingers. The 'fingers' of light could act like a hookshot or grappling hook in combination with gravitational manipulation and the thing could load up its own weapons, hugely reducing the workload for ground-crews. A possible side-effect of this is it doubles as a close-range combat weapon because of its sharp edge and tremendous potential for electromagnetic radience (heat, gamma radiation, and so forth -- all ideal for cutting) in spite of how fragile it is. On paper you could produce something that's like a fighter but has attributes like a frame.

I think the drawback really is while this stuff is in operation, a lot of your more demanding weapons probably aren't getting enough juice if this is in full swing.

Coming back to the suggested issue of extreme heat, photons only carry energy and only when they're in a set state and photons themselves have no energy until its given to them, being bosons. There's no reason hard-light should be hot: Arguably it would be cold: displacing infared radiation over its surface. Looks like we've got a new use: It would make an excellent heat-sink. Used properly, it could even match ambient temperatures provided it was large enough relative to its input sources.

Intelligent Liquid metalloids, photonic semi-conductors, non-repeating quasiperiodics, gravitational centrifuges and hard-light. Fun combination.

Ah, I meant extreme heat in the sense of what the surface has to tolerate, not hard light as a source of heat. A lot of chemical processes either produce or require high levels of heat, and certainly any type of fabrication generates a lot of heat on its own.

I suppose my hang ups go like this: Does a hard light structure, once created, require energy in order to maintain its shape(and other qualities)? Does the application of force/stress/heat change or modify the previous answer? If the structure is created mid-air, does it hang there or would it fall?

If the answer to the first question is no, and you in fact are creating a type of solid matter independent of the need for maintenance, that's pretty spiffy but seems concerning from a setting standpoint. There's plenty of other super-science that SARP seems to selectively ignore because of what it means for the setting. (I am in no means an authority on what is good or bad for this setting, I've only just arrived) If yes, then cool, and the question settles into 'how much' and leads into my second question, which is 'how much more under adverse conditions'?

From the view of someone engaged in the setting, if I were to come across a ship made primarily out of light (and, why wouldn't I?), my first thought would be 'Cool!' and the second would be 'How do I get one?'. The second part is what gives me hesitation, because I don't think I'd be alone in that! (And also makes me wonder how much it costs and how can I get my character in touch with your guys...)

To be a broken record, I love the tech and love how well thought out this is. I appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions!

Ames said:

Ah, I meant extreme heat in the sense of what the surface has to tolerate, not hard light as a source of heat. A lot of chemical processes either produce or require high levels of heat, and certainly any type of fabrication generates a lot of heat on its own.

I suppose my hang ups go like this: Does a hard light structure, once created, require energy in order to maintain its shape(and other qualities)? Does the application of force/stress/heat change or modify the previous answer? If the structure is created mid-air, does it hang there or would it fall?

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As stated in the article itself: No, unless rectification is in progress. Rectification is in progress when damage is sustained. Extreme heat or force can create damage in a given part of the lattice but the rest of the lattice can either carry it away or a structure can be especially designed with a cooling system anticipating this heat.

Ames said:

If the answer to the first question is no, and you in fact are creating a type of solid matter independent of the need for maintenance, that's pretty spiffy but seems concerning from a setting standpoint. There's plenty of other super-science that SARP seems to selectively ignore because of what it means for the setting. (I am in no means an authority on what is good or bad for this setting, I've only just arrived) If yes, then cool, and the question settles into 'how much' and leads into my second question, which is 'how much more under adverse conditions'?

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This depends entirely on the application, the size of the projector and the force the system has to deal with. As stated many MANY times in the articles: these are objects which don't require maintenance unless they're damaged. Normally all damage which occurs over time is minute but constant: Erosion. Without a connected projector, a hard-light projection erodes within minutes or hours and the process is accelerated if the form is expected to be flexible. In addition, without a projector, these things are quite fragile. With a projector, they're incredibly robust.

Ames said:

From the view of someone engaged in the setting, if I were to come across a ship made primarily out of light (and, why wouldn't I?), my first thought would be 'Cool!' and the second would be 'How do I get one?'. The second part is what gives me hesitation, because I don't think I'd be alone in that! (And also makes me wonder how much it costs and how can I get my character in touch with your guys...)

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1) Such a ship would have borderline insane energy requirements if it came under fire and would almost certainly require an aetheric military grade power-plant. But it would also be ludicrously light in terms of mass relative to size and as such, probably very fast making it ideal for courrier or scouting roles but unsuitable for sustained combat.

On paper, its construction would likely be a set of physical rooms and compartments and mechanical equipment, wrapped in a metalloid scaffold (think the movie 'Black Hole' with some ISS thrown in). I figure some sort of femtomachine or acting metal would sit over and under the light (similar to support cables on a suspension bridge) making it look a bit like a three dimensional gallion with its sails stretched over its hull. Gravitational systems would be in place as a secondary anchor to hold the hull together for if the hard-light failed, the hull wouldn't collapse but the ships primary functions would be deeply impaired. As I said: These structures are not permanent. They shouldn't be relied on long term unless you expect little to no trouble or you've got deep energy banks and lots of projectors to power them. I think I'm going to update and add multiple projectors can rectify a single projection very efficiently but this very quickly becomes very very expensive.

If instead of being a primary hull the ship had climbing irons and invisible cables holding mechanically separated portions of hull like torsion lines, that too could be interesting. Generally though, I think a military ship using something like this would have turrets which orbit the hull like funnels or options -- with the hardlight being used to pass power between the turret and the ship -- while in some cases shifting big mechanical armour plating connected to the hull to a side which faces where the opponent is: Armour is only useful if its between you and your opponent, afterall.

2) A lot, given that this is new and still only really in its infancy. A lot of the early applications are going to be unusual and erratic until the consortium work out the real pros and cons to using this technology through application.

3) The consortium are directly contactable through the Lazarus Public Network. Any message sent to them (it must be addressed to them), they read, regardless of what it is. As I said: Money is money. If you can afford it you can have it. If it doesn't exist yet and you can show you're in for the long haul, they'll probably develop it FOR you.

Ames said:

To be a broken record, I love the tech and love how well thought out this is. I appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions!

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Its fine: I enjoy answering them. The more the merrier.

1. Please make a general informational article on the tech and a separate one for the Lazarus tech. When other faction eventually get this, they can link to the general article. Kind of like how graviton beams, anti-matter, and fusion engines are not faction-specific but various models of those are.
2. Please update the article to include the answers you made to people's questions in the thread. This will help keep them from being asked over and over again in the future.
3. I've asked @Kyle to take over this thread from here out.