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LSP Resubmit

Sigma

Inactive Member
Submission Type: Update
Submission URL: https://wiki.stararmy.com/doku.php?id=nepleslia:lsp

Faction:
FM Approved Yet? Yes
Faction requires art? No

For Reviewers:
Contains Unapproved Sub-Articles? No
Contains New art? No
Previously Submitted? Yes. Someone deleted the thread and did not inform me.

Notes:
I will not make any ammunition for this. Nepleslia is working on stream lining its logistics and we have not yet discussed munitions for the LSP.

The only change is to change the DR. It has gone from PDR 4 to PDR 5/ADR 1. This was done to make the LSP a more viable sidearm for the existing Nepleslian armors. This is a power armor weapon, if that remained unclear. This is a simple quick-fix so I really don't see why this should be objected to in any way. Especially as to result in a stealth-delete.
 
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I don't see why this weapon needs to have its SP arbitrarily upgraded after being at its current stats for several years. Leaving it as is- a bit underpowered for use against PA- allows for more drama in the roleplay. It is, after all, a last-resort, backup weapon.

I actually like the fact that it is underpowered, which forces the players to get up close and personal with their enemies in order to effectively combat them. I myself have used the weapon in its old state to that same effect, and was much more satisfied with the results dramatically than if it had simply been a properly powerful PA weapon.

The power creep of weapons on SARP is something that I don't like seeing, and I would like to see more people making weapons that are 'inferior' or just simply 'adequate' in order to flavor up the roleplay more.

In short; I don't think this SP update should be approved.
 
What is the point of a sidearm if it is useless against your primary opponent? MoonMan raised the same issue of necessity. I say that what has sufficed for several years is no longer sufficient. While it may be the GM's discretion to determine damage outcome, it is hardly a good guideline for the GM when the weapon's damage is rated so low that it cannot be used against modern armors.

I have spoken with MoonMan and I have his permission to make this change. I fail to see how the FM of Nepleslia's approval is "arbitrary." I further fail to see how you arrive at the conclusion that any existing armor can be threatened by the weapon, even at close range. Personal damage below 5 cannot affect Armor-scale defenses.

The power creep of weapons on SARP is something that I don't like seeing, and I would like to see more people making weapons that are 'inferior' or just simply 'adequate' in order to flavor up the roleplay more.
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Take it up with Origin. I'm sure they would be able to help you.

In short; I don't think this SP update should be approved.
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In short, I think you are confusing Damage Rating with Structure Points.

I further do not understand why you raise this issue with the LSP now rather than in the first NTSE thread before it was deleted. Is the joint decision by MoonMan and I so difficult to accept to a non-Nepleslian player?
 
Sigma?

I'm under the impression that you've taken offense as to what was in Kai's post. I say you're looking far too much into the word "Arbitrary" - Kai gave his honest opinion on the matter based off what little information he had. Not only that, but it was also based off of his own personal prior experience with the very same weapon. Fond memories essentially. I am very certain that Kai did not mean to be rude, try to humiliate you or anything else like that at all.

I myself however, feel offended at your previous post - it was rude, and uncalled for. Please leave Origin out of this, as it has nothing to do with this matter.

Coming back onto topic and moving on however, I spoke to Kai on this matter. It is, and again his opinion, that it is 'arbitrary' because it was changed due to simple desire. If, however, there was something to substantiate the change, then it would not be, in Kai's opinion again, 'arbitrary'. For that very same reason, I am willing to create for you an ammunition article which would contain both the old DR with past ammunition, as well as a new ammunition that would give it the ability to do ADR 1.
 
If this is an armor-only weapon it can have higher damage (ADR 2 or something) than if personnel can use it. Do we want to go that route? If people can use it without armor, ADR 1 is the cap. I agree with Kai, though, if it's had the same stats for years, it would probably be better to make a new weapon, because the changes would make it into something so far different than what's been presented until now.
 
I do not think upgrading the LSP from PDR4 to ADR1 would be so much of a effect as to make it inconsistent with previous RP (A number of which I was the GM). Rather, a PDR4 weapon on a Nep PA is rather odd because of the Nepleslian PA design doctrine of the PA being essentially an Anti-PA platform, which a PDR4 weapon would simply not suffice. An ADR1 rating would put it where it is intended to be, a very low end PA weapon.

Considering that we have jiggled around damage rating stats on weapons before, and that even the hard stats on articles are up to the GM's interpretation, I believe the discription of the weapon in relative terms are the most important part of any article to take into consideration, and it says there on the old LSP page, that it is a (backup) Anti-PA weapon.
 
What does it actually shoot?
 
because the changes would make it into something so far different than what's been presented until now.
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PDR5/ADR 1 is such a big change from PDR 4? Really?

The point of the LSP is to be a last resort weapon for PA, against PA. For it to remain pertinent in this role, upping the damage would make more sense. I should have thought that this is a better move than simply junking it. I have extended its lifetime and kept it true to its original purpose but you complain that I've changed the way it works. Your suggested alternative is to make a new one, relegating this to the Unused Bin. I should think that to be the worst option. To tell me that this gun has such a prestigious history and that, rather than give it new life, I should toss it out like a has-been and replace it with a new shiny toy. Galling.

Had this been brought up with many of the other weapons I have updated - the Plasma Autocannon, the Plasma Lance Rifle, or the LCA - I might have believed there was a foot to stand on. I modified those submissions heavily, changing their DR, capabilities and range. I even made art for them without consulting anyone other than the FM. Yet those passed without anyone saying I had ruined those guns, despite huge changes.

This is just a few lines of changes and I'm nigh accused of upsetting the system and ruining a good gun.

The LSP was designed to be a last-resort anti-PA weapon. At PDR 4, it no longer achieves that result. At PDR5/ADR 1, it meets that minimum criteria and gets to remain in Nepleslian service. This is a minor update and I fail to see why there is such a hoopla about it.
 
What size are the rounds?

Also, can we link this weapon to an existing ammunition article (for standardization purposes), or perhaps make one for it?
 
Original Post said:
I will not make any ammunition for this. Nepleslia is working on stream lining its logistics and we have not yet discussed munitions for the LSP.
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I am of the opinion that damages achieved by weapons are almost 100% always left to the GM of the plot. The GM is able to gauge the general power of the weapon by checking the provided wiki page and the damage rating it was assigned as a guideline, but it ultimately will fall to the GM to use that guideline as he or she sees fit.

In this particular scenario, as was said before, the LSP was designed to combat opposing armor. To accomplish that, it needs to be at least PDR5/ADR1. Previously it was PDR4; this was a mistake, or an oversight, as it defeats the original intention of the weapon. That is why I agreed with Sigma and allowed him to update the LSP to better reflect its original purpose.


The LSP could be used by unarmored personnel, but it would be incredibly cumbersome. LSPs were designed for specifically for armorsuits, which in Nepleslia are larger than a normal man. LSPs are pretty big; the Aggressor version of the LSP is even larger.

That said, ADR1 being the cap doesn't pose a problem to me, as that is what we are looking for. It will still be fairly weak as an anti-armor weapon, but now the GUIDELINE STATES that it CAN be used as an anti-armor weapon. That is the intention with this submission.

In a roleplay standpoint, literally nothing will change; the LSP won't be used differently, save for the GMs influence. The wiki is being changed to properly reflect the LSPs intended performance that's already in the roleplay.
 
I'm okay with that, but I still would like answers to my questions before I sign off on it.
 
Wes said:
What size are the rounds?

Also, can we link this weapon to an existing ammunition article (for standardization purposes), or perhaps make one for it?
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These.
 

As for the size of the original. I don't know. It was never listed.
 
Change Approved
 
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