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Mindy M2-2A Upgrade brainstorm

Fred

Retired Staff
edited from a chat transcript between Wes and I


Kylie's 50mm shoulder railgun
  • The LASR seems superior to the Kylie's railgun. I think it would be more fun for a player to actually wield it in his hands instead of shooting it from over the shoulder (not to mention the shoulder attachment won't make the Mindy look as sleek as before). If you do add attachments, I think they should be modular add ons.

    Wes said:
    The armor can carry a LASR in the weapons slot. But, I think the 50mm is a much better anti-armor weapon. It's like a LASR but much more powerful.
    Click to expand...

    I can't say I'm fond of over the shoulder weapons for power armors. The Mindy is supposed to look sleek and agile and I think it would spoil the image a bit to have a weapon like that. I also don't think the Kylie's railgun is significantly more powerful than the LASR upon observation. It's up to you, but I'd make this optional (perhaps replacing a weapon hanger rack)


Supports Yamataian pilots, some Nepleslians (?)
  • The Daisy does it the right way. However, if your stance is to keep the Mindy armor very slight and slim, even if you did so, only a limited number of yamataians and nepleslians would be able to fit in.

    You could either: have an alternate exoskeleton package and hemosynthetic core to cope with the Nepleslians and Yamataians as a Mindy variant (just like the SLICS compatible insert is a variant). That way, most of your Mindy would be the M2-2A variant, but Yamataian/Nepleslian operated Mindy could be M2-2AN or M2-2AY if you wanted to be more effective. Nekos do stand as 90%+ of the SA's pilots.

    Wes said:
    Hey, I could fit in a Mindy just fine. ^^; It's only the really tall people that can't.
    Click to expand...

    Most yamataian of norse ancestry tend to be tall. the same go for the Nepleslian. the Star army player characters happen to have a few of those. I see two ways of cattering to them.
    • Promote starfighter (which was why I made the Cougar)
    • Make the Mindy endo-skeleton variable instead of fixed or changeable to fit it's current assigned wearer. In any case, I don't think a Nepleslian or Yamataian should pilot a Mindy nearly as agilely as a neko.
    • Make the Mindy teleguided (lol! no way - this isn't the NDI)
    Wes said:
    I think that passenger shuttles should not be considered starfighters. What fighter jet in the world can you name that carries passengers?
    Click to expand...

    The shuttles are of the right size to fit in a ship, whereas starfighters just can't. If shuttles don't fit in your idea of what the KFY should offer, then you should say so and not lead me to believe you liked the Cougar. You're the only one whom can really put a foot down and say what KFY wants to produce. We're just trying to misguidely help you out.

    Wes said:
    Wouldn't most shuttles be larger than fighters, seeing as they don't have bulky passenger/cargo compartments?
    Click to expand...

    The Cougar was meant to drop off slower power armor or land armor too while being able to match up everybit as well as a power armor, even with fixed equipment. I also wanted to go for a unit Nepleslians and yamataians (like Yukari) would have no problem using even if they aren't the big action hero type. Modern SA ships do not support fighters, but to support the shuttles.

Deflector shields on forearms for parrying (?)
  • That's going to make for a lot of stuff on the forearms. Perhaps the forearms could only have emiters, which would function when the barrie system module would be installed in the back?

    Wes said:
    I'd like the Mindy to have some resource to block some incoming fire all the time. After all, PCs will be in it. I like the idea of a forearm shield because it requires the operator to actually block an attack.
    Click to expand...

    I like the idea of parrying attacks. It's very evocative (and Kotori would probably be good at it ~_^ ). My concern is space inside the forearm. Other than that, I like it.

Get rid of optic camouflage?
  • Optic camouflage is a feature nekos are supposed to find on power armor. Nh-29 lack it because their armor is supposed to have it. It also provides for skin vision which nekos do rely upon and it's useful. I'd say keep it - it's a feature that's makes it a distinctively neko armor.

Locations of all systems should be noted.
  • You already have a good start on that with the system listing. It just needs to be further elaborated.

Aether generator gets a system listing or at least a link to aether explaination
  • That's not a bad idea. Knowing the actual size and position of the unit would be useful. Also, given the advances the Sylph's battery capacitors offered, I'd give the Mindy 2 some ability to work underpowered better than before if it would fit. If not, well, nekos can manage - I guess. It'd just would make the Lamia 2s better suited for some situations than the Mindy then


    Um, okay then. No battery stuff. Slate it on me not knowing what I'm talking about. Finite energy reserves sometimes sound cool, is all.

Possible improvement on neck seal
  • I wouldn't worry too much about it. the neck is a vulnerabl point and you can't really get around it. even if you do strengthen the seal, you'll still risk pilots having the nec lining damage through use of physical strength or something.

    Realistically, blows to the head or neck of sufficient force would kill a pilot anyways, but were in sci-fi and that stuff doesn't happen because we don't wish it to happen.

Built-in storage for Pilot's pistol and uniform
  • We already have that through the CFWEP (or something). No need to really improve on this - it's already pretty good.

    Wes said:
    Why carry a tin can on your ass when you could have a built-in pouch? The CFWEP can fall off, have its straps get in the way of movement, etc
    Click to expand...

    Then you can integrate it, but it'd likely make the Mindy slightly less sleek.
 
I'd go on about the whole list... but it is far too extensive for me to pick at right now just before a JP, all I have to say is the following.

New railgun for shoulder, 25mm, three barrel gatling.

Shield systems in the arms would be nice.

Add flavor to the missles available.

Make the damned things compatable with Nepleslians, or get the Nepleslians out of the army.

And, most of all.... A STARFIGHTER IS FINE TOO.
(Give the contract to the Lorath.)
 
Most of this stuff isn't that big of a deal to me - if it works, it works. However, one point seems of note:

Make the damned things compatable with Nepleslians, or get the Nepleslians out of the army.
Click to expand...

Yes, I know that non-Nekos are a minority in the pilot department. Yes, I know Neplesians are an even smaller number (not to mention tall Yamataians). But isn't it still a consideration that could be made?

I dunno, maybe I shouldn't weigh in so heavily. But it's an important thing to note.

EDIT: Oh, and A STARFIGHTER IS FINE TOO
 
The Daisy offers a good outlet for power armor action - it's not ideal for space combat, but it can serve for nekos, yamataians and nepleslians well for what it was intended to do.

Wes envisions the Mindy as the suit designed and tailored for nekovalkyrjas. One of his mentions above sort of hints the Mindy, aside from it's size limitation, might actually allow for some yamataians and even nepleslians to fit in if they were as small and slim as nekovalkyrjas are.

However, he has a point: the Star Army combat arms occupation is considered to be for nekos. Nekos were made to be the soldiers of the Empire and, well, it's like that. The yamataian body is not made to be a combattant, it's made for civilian life with nekovalkyrja advantages; therefore, it is well suited for support roles.

Apparently, my idea of the Cougar won't make the cut, even if Wes told me he liked it - and yes, there might be a need for a small fighting unit for yamataians that could focus on piloting skill instead of sheer physical prowess for fighting capabilities. God forbids the Lorath making that one for the Star Army though!

The Nepleslian are pretty much left being the hair that floats over the surface of the soup. Either Nepleslian players should resign themselves to support roles they don't seem to be well suited for... or well, they should indeed move. If all he Nepleslian players would actually move on to a new Nepleslian plotship... well, I'm pretty damn sure that there'd be plenty of players to make it a nice plotship.
 

Hmm, I wonder if the Black Spiral would like some Nepleslian operatives...
 
DocTomoe said:
Hmm, I wonder if the Black Spiral would like some Nepleslian operatives...
Click to expand...
Considering every last one of them is a nearly identical Nekovalkyrja, probably not.
 
@Tomoe:

Hanako was quiet for a moment, but then sat up to finally face Pumpkin. "I do not understand you, because I do not know your goals."

Pumpkin smiled. "Why, we're here to ensure Nekovalkyrja remain the dominant species."
Click to expand...

Nothing about Nepleslians here...


Apparently, humans might be lumped in amongst the undesirable aliens...


Ouch. If nekos helping humans deserve to be punished... just imagine what they'd think of nepleslians.

<center>* * *</center>

@Zakalwe

You parry it when you see someone else aiming at you, as a preventive measure or when you expect an attack.

<center>* * *</center>

While I am not fond of the shoulder-mounted weapon, I can see a way to work around that. The Mindy 2's shoulder hardpoint could either mount a weapon rack like the Mindy 1F or go for a motorised shoulder-mount. That shoulder mount could be used to mount a weapon which could be inspired from the following...







The Kylie's railgun:
Decent range, good damage output, decent firing speed, small ammo capacity.

The Sylph's rifle:
Decent range (only a tad less than the Kylie), decent damage output (better for anti-marine than anti-mecha), excellent firing rate, large ammo capacity.

The Lamia's positron railgun:
Good range, excellent damage output, decent firing speed, decent ammo capacity (though ammo is somewhat volatile).

The Sarah's particle cannons:
Excellent range, excellent damage output, very slow firing speed (uncharacteristically so given their design lineage comes from the Mishhu pods, which have no such difficulty), large ammunition capacity (though I'm totally in disagreement of the 'limited', as the SMX pods use this as a direct fire energy weapon indefenitely).

The Lamia's missile pods:
Good range, good damage output, firing rate at pilot's convenience (I'd say good), and decent ammo capacity (mini-missiles are guided and the AIEs can be used to launch them in a fire-and-forget manner, but they can also be shot down. Offensive mini-missile swarms are cool).

The Cougar's light particle cannons:
Excellent range (superior to Sarah particle cannons), Excellent damage output, good firing speed, unlimited ammo capacity (the Cougar's weapons are an accurate port of the Mishhu pods).

...

The Cougar's weapon trumps all the rest, but it's triple barreled - a single cannon version would fire at the same speed as the Kylie and Lamia railguns... but it still would have the edge on range and unlimited ammo usage. The Lamia's positron railgun and missile launchers are very good. The LASR fires the fastest, the particle cannons fire the slowest, but they fire very far. The Kylie is very close to the Lamia's railgun, but lacks it shield piercing potential, ammo capacity and range.

Bear in mind that the Cougar particle cannon, it's inferior Sarah analog and the Lamia positron railgun shouldn't be useable in atmoshpere, while the Lamia mini-missile pods and Kylie railgun would. This should bear consideration.

The Kylie's railgun is the best all around weapon and the best one in an atmosphere. The light particle cannon would be best in space. the mini-missiles perform well about anywhere.
 
Uhm, I don't know. While the parrying system sounds cool, I don't think that it would be much practical use unless you could parry the effect in flight - which is nigh on impossibe with a light speed beam.
 
Pilot action/reaction speeds aren't going at the speed of c. If you raise and point a gun at me, the odds are the if I'm aware of it, I'll be able to raise my forearm to parry before you can press the trigger and hit me. Regardless of the results of the first attack, I'll probably keep my forearm ready to shield me in subsequent attacks and try tofind an opening in your firing rates to fire my own attacks.
 
But that certainly doesn't counter the ability to quickly move and fire a gun, or for something with a targetting computer or something like a targetting computer for a brain (i.e. a Neko) from shooting around the small part you are parrying, or in fact use your parrying as a diversion to aim for another part of your body now less protected.
 
Wrong. It can. Skin vision, AIES/SPINE connection and intuition can certainly help to figure out what the impact point would be.

We're going in circles Zakalwe. Granted weapon speeds can make parrying tricky, but as long as events are based on actions/reactions, that kind of stuff is possible and makes landing a succesful hit just as tricky. We happen to both be right here.

Don't debate the tech with me; I know an all around shield would make more sense... but parrying allows for player action that's much less cold than a static barrier. From a roleplaying angle, this is rather valuable and there have been zesuaium shields out on power armor before, so, there's even precedent.
 
Agreed. As long as the area covered by the shield is relatively large (not just the fore arm). It should be valuable, and an essential energy saving move.
 
For this parrying buiness, let me provide a scenerio to prove how it is of very questionable practical usage. In this scenerio we have two armors, both of nearly equal capabilities in terms of reaction speed and such like, one with a gun, the other with the parrying shield. At this particular moment, they are currently facing each other exactly 2,000 meters from each other (figurativly nose to nose for space combat).

The gun wielding suit shoots at the other one, but the he, seeing that the first was aiming at his neck (or more correctly, his computer noticed this), manages to parry it. This bothers the first user, that rat bastard and his damn shields!, and he pulls off another shot right after the first, not really taking time to re-aim at a new spot, essentially pulling of a double tap.

Now, due to his flawed, organic neuvrous system he moves the gun a little bit in the short time between shots. Not much, just a single arc minute, only 1/60th of a degree. The tip of his 0.5 meter gun barrel only drops 1.5 milimeters, nothing to worry about. However, the laser shot hits the second guy almost halfway down his suit, a good 60 cm from the first shot. The unlucky sap in the second armor, reacting to his suits warning, tries to move the arms down but cannot move them the proper distance in the 6 millionths of a second before the laser bolt hits.

Poor bastard won't be having children again.
 
Yeah, but Mindy power armors, when piloted by a neko, can pretty much move about as fast as the user thinks (and given the NH-29 nekos computer-like mind, that's fast). Moving the arm isn't the only thing the user can do. The neko could only make a minor adjustment of the forearm shield and just duck to intercept the blow if she was standing on land; or just hover down to intercept it with the forearm (though I'd just move out of the way *shrugs*).

However, since that sort of feat would be pretty difficult to maintain against successive hits from a weapon that would have a firing rate of 500 shots per second with the minute movement a living person would make (amplified by the great distances which would widen the distance considerably at the impact point), it seems likely to me that the forearm shield would project a considerably larger barrier which would likely cover around 120 degrees by 120 degrees from the centerpoint of the suit with the center of the dome created likely directed in relation to the position of the forearm.

Here, I'll let Bob show you.




Bob, a cheap biped skeleton from 3d studio Max, raises his forearm. With a crummy 45% sphere centered in the middle of Bob and oriented toward where his forearm is raised (about), it looks like his little barrier shield might do a good job of deflecting attacks from the direction he's protecting himself from.



Do you see a big opening? I sure don't. Looks like it could do it's job well.



Hey, he could even perform decently with a 20% sphere. That can't be so bad.
 
What I figure from Fred's last post is... we need weapons that envelop the target on contact thus making the shield pointless. B)
 
Not necessarely. Distortion-based shielding doesn't block an attack - it's not a barrier that absorbs attacks like the shields in Star Trek, but rather dampen and deflect incoming energy attacks a lot like the distorsion field in Martian Successor Nadesico.


So, you might block and attack and lessen it's damage potential, but if it was a direct enough hit, the attack might not be deviated enough to avoid the unit and it could still score a hit.

Like so:

 
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