Mindy M2-2A Upgrade brainstorm

[Fred]

edited from a chat transcript between Wes and I

Mindy Upgrades
Forearm dual-purpose NSP-type/aether projection weapons
Aether saber no longer typically carried. Hands free.
Kylie's 50mm shoulder railgun, left side
Supports Yamataian pilots, some Nepleslians (?)
Improved NSBs
Deflector shields on forearms for parrying (?)
Get rid of optic camouflage?
Reduced electronics package (current is somewhat crowded and overpowered)
Locations of all systems should be noted.
Aether generator gets a system listing or at least a link to aether explanation
Possible improvement on neck seal
built-in storage for Pilot's pistol and uniform
only one weapon storage rack

Kylie's 50mm shoulder railgun

• The LASR seems superior to the Kylie's railgun. I think it would be more fun for a player to actually wield it in his hands instead of shooting it from over the shoulder (not to mention the shoulder attachment won't make the Mindy look as sleek as before). If you do add attachments, I think they should be modular add ons.
  
  

  The armor can carry a LASR in the weapons slot. But, I think the 50mm is a much better anti-armor weapon. It's like a LASR but much more powerful.

  
  I can't say I'm fond of over the shoulder weapons for power armors. The Mindy is supposed to look sleek and agile and I think it would spoil the image a bit to have a weapon like that. I also don't think the Kylie's railgun is significantly more powerful than the LASR upon observation. It's up to you, but I'd make this optional (perhaps replacing a weapon hanger rack)
  
  

  That's the idea. It'll be on the side of the armor's backpack when not in use, then it will slide up and point forward when needed. This means the Mindy 2 will only have one weapon rack on the back, but it will not need one for an aether saber/rifle because the saber/rifle will be replaced with forearm weapons.

Supports Yamataian pilots, some Nepleslians (?)

• The Daisy does it the right way. However, if your stance is to keep the Mindy armor very slight and slim, even if you did so, only a limited number of yamataians and nepleslians would be able to fit in.
  
  You could either: have an alternate exoskeleton package and hemosynthetic core to cope with the Nepleslians and Yamataians as a Mindy variant (just like the SLICS compatible insert is a variant). That way, most of your Mindy would be the M2-2A variant, but Yamataian/Nepleslian operated Mindy could be M2-2AN or M2-2AY if you wanted to be more effective. Nekos do stand as 90%+ of the SA's pilots.
  
  

  Hey, I could fit in a Mindy just fine. ^^; It's only the really tall people that can't.

  
  Most yamataian of norse ancestry tend to be tall. the same go for the Nepleslian. the Star army player characters happen to have a few of those. I see two ways of cattering to them.
  • Promote starfighter (which was why I made the Cougar)
  • Make the Mindy endo-skeleton variable instead of fixed or changeable to fit it's current assigned wearer. In any case, I don't think a Nepleslian or Yamataian should pilot a Mindy nearly as agilely as a neko.
  • Make the Mindy teleguided (lol! no way - this isn't the NDI)

  I think that passenger shuttles should not be considered starfighters. What fighter jet in the world can you name that carries passengers?

  
  The shuttles are of the right size to fit in a ship, whereas starfighters just can't. If shuttles don't fit in your idea of what the KFY should offer, then you should say so and not lead me to believe you liked the Cougar. You're the only one whom can really put a foot down and say what KFY wants to produce. We're just trying to misguidely help you out.
  
  

  Wouldn't most shuttles be larger than fighters, seeing as they don't have bulky passenger/cargo compartments?

  
  The Cougar was meant to drop off slower power armor or land armor too while being able to match up everybit as well as a power armor, even with fixed equipment. I also wanted to go for a unit Nepleslians and yamataians (like Yukari) would have no problem using even if they aren't the big action hero type. Modern SA ships do not support fighters, but to support the shuttles.

Deflector shields on forearms for parrying (?)

• That's going to make for a lot of stuff on the forearms. Perhaps the forearms could only have emiters, which would function when the barrie system module would be installed in the back?
  
  

  I'd like the Mindy to have some resource to block some incoming fire all the time. After all, PCs will be in it. I like the idea of a forearm shield because it requires the operator to actually block an attack.

  
  I like the idea of parrying attacks. It's very evocative (and Kotori would probably be good at it ~_^ ). My concern is space inside the forearm. Other than that, I like it.

Get rid of optic camouflage?

• Optic camouflage is a feature nekos are supposed to find on power armor. Nh-29 lack it because their armor is supposed to have it. It also provides for skin vision which nekos do rely upon and it's useful. I'd say keep it - it's a feature that's makes it a distinctively neko armor.

Locations of all systems should be noted.

• You already have a good start on that with the system listing. It just needs to be further elaborated.

Aether generator gets a system listing or at least a link to aether explaination

• That's not a bad idea. Knowing the actual size and position of the unit would be useful. Also, given the advances the Sylph's battery capacitors offered, I'd give the Mindy 2 some ability to work underpowered better than before if it would fit. If not, well, nekos can manage - I guess. It'd just would make the Lamia 2s better suited for some situations than the Mindy then
  
  

  Some of this battery stuff is ridiculous. To me, the NSP 29's battery is awesome and the one of the 2701 saber/rifle is godly. It takes ENORMOUS amounts of power to create a CDD field and it's not something I really believe a battery could do for long.

  
  Um, okay then. No battery stuff. Slate it on me not knowing what I'm talking about. Finite energy reserves sometimes sound cool, is all.

Possible improvement on neck seal

• I wouldn't worry too much about it. the neck is a vulnerabl point and you can't really get around it. even if you do strengthen the seal, you'll still risk pilots having the nec lining damage through use of physical strength or something.
  
  Realistically, blows to the head or neck of sufficient force would kill a pilot anyways, but were in sci-fi and that stuff doesn't happen because we don't wish it to happen.

Built-in storage for Pilot's pistol and uniform

• We already have that through the CFWEP (or something). No need to really improve on this - it's already pretty good.
  
  

  Why carry a tin can on your ass when you could have a built-in pouch? The CFWEP can fall off, have its straps get in the way of movement, etc

  
  Then you can integrate it, but it'd likely make the Mindy slightly less sleek.

 

[Doshii Jun]

I see an opportunity for a resurgance of starfighters.

 

[DocTomoe]

I'd go on about the whole list... but it is far too extensive for me to pick at right now just before a JP, all I have to say is the following.

New railgun for shoulder, 25mm, three barrel gatling.

Shield systems in the arms would be nice.

Add flavor to the missles available.

Make the damned things compatable with Nepleslians, or get the Nepleslians out of the army.

And, most of all.... A STARFIGHTER IS FINE TOO.
(Give the contract to the Lorath.)

 

[FM]

Most of this stuff isn't that big of a deal to me - if it works, it works. However, one point seems of note:

Make the damned things compatable with Nepleslians, or get the Nepleslians out of the army.

Yes, I know that non-Nekos are a minority in the pilot department. Yes, I know Neplesians are an even smaller number (not to mention tall Yamataians). But isn't it still a consideration that could be made?

I dunno, maybe I shouldn't weigh in so heavily. But it's an important thing to note.

EDIT: Oh, and A STARFIGHTER IS FINE TOO

 

[Fred]

The Daisy offers a good outlet for power armor action - it's not ideal for space combat, but it can serve for nekos, yamataians and nepleslians well for what it was intended to do.

Wes envisions the Mindy as the suit designed and tailored for nekovalkyrjas. One of his mentions above sort of hints the Mindy, aside from it's size limitation, might actually allow for some yamataians and even nepleslians to fit in if they were as small and slim as nekovalkyrjas are.

However, he has a point: the Star Army combat arms occupation is considered to be for nekos. Nekos were made to be the soldiers of the Empire and, well, it's like that. The yamataian body is not made to be a combattant, it's made for civilian life with nekovalkyrja advantages; therefore, it is well suited for support roles.

Apparently, my idea of the Cougar won't make the cut, even if Wes told me he liked it - and yes, there might be a need for a small fighting unit for yamataians that could focus on piloting skill instead of sheer physical prowess for fighting capabilities. God forbids the Lorath making that one for the Star Army though!

The Nepleslian are pretty much left being the hair that floats over the surface of the soup. Either Nepleslian players should resign themselves to support roles they don't seem to be well suited for... or well, they should indeed move. If all he Nepleslian players would actually move on to a new Nepleslian plotship... well, I'm pretty damn sure that there'd be plenty of players to make it a nice plotship.

 

[DocTomoe]

The Nepleslian are pretty much left being the hair that floats over the surface of the soup. Either Nepleslian players should resign themselves to support roles they don't seem to be well suited for... or well, they should indeed move. If all he Nepleslian players would actually move on to a new Nepleslian plotship... well, I'm pretty damn sure that there'd be plenty of players to make it a nice plotship.

Hmm, I wonder if the Black Spiral would like some Nepleslian operatives...

 

[Wes]

Hmm, I wonder if the Black Spiral would like some Nepleslian operatives...

Considering every last one of them is a nearly identical Nekovalkyrja, probably not.

 

[Zakalwe]

How do you parry something when it's moving at the speed of light?

 

[Fred]

@Tomoe:

Hanako was quiet for a moment, but then sat up to finally face Pumpkin. "I do not understand you, because I do not know your goals."

Pumpkin smiled. "Why, we're here to ensure Nekovalkyrja remain the dominant species."

Nothing about Nepleslians here...

"Yui-Taisho was the one whom sent us after you!" Kotori added, thinking back to Rufus' suspicions that Yui knew more than she let on. "What are you getting at?"

"Her Empire is out here among the stars, not sitting on Yamatai with a bunch of aliens," Pumpkin said, setting down her drink.

Apparently, humans might be lumped in amongst the undesirable aliens...

Pumpkin stood up, supporting herself with smooth, slender legs hidden within her skirt of tentacles. Toying with her now empty glass, she approached the clear doorway, and looked down at Kotori and Hanako. "Now what punishment do you deserve for being Imperialist, human-subservient pawns?" she asked, rubbing her chin in thought.

Ouch. If nekos helping humans deserve to be punished... just imagine what they'd think of nepleslians.

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@Zakalwe

You parry it when you see someone else aiming at you, as a preventive measure or when you expect an attack.

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While I am not fond of the shoulder-mounted weapon, I can see a way to work around that. The Mindy 2's shoulder hardpoint could either mount a weapon rack like the Mindy 1F or go for a motorised shoulder-mount. That shoulder mount could be used to mount a weapon which could be inspired from the following...

Ketsurui Fleet Yards W2708 Shoulder-Fired 50mm Railgun (1): This weapon (also known as the WickedArms WA-09) is approximately 4 feet long and is attached to the shoulder by means of a small, movable arm. It can pivot up, down, and side-to-side as well as 45 degrees back, allowing it to fire hands-free at any target to the front or above from a standing position, or to be used as a shoulder-fired sniper weapons from a prone position. Uses WickedArms AM-09-18 and AM-09-78 series ammunition or AP-8 mortar rounds.

• Primary Purpose: Anti-Armor
  Secondary Purpose: Sniping
  Damage: Heavy
  Range: 15,000 m (9.3 miles)
  Rate of Fire: 3 rounds a second.
  Payload: 18 rounds in a helical magazine. Optional backpack extension increases capacity to 78 rounds.

Ketsurui Fleet Yards Ke-M4-W2901 Light Armor Service Rifle: The LASR's purpose is rather simple: to give M4-suited soldiers a weapon that does not have the overkill of the M2-W2901 Aether Beam Rifle, yet retains some armor-killing punch. While the weapon is extremely effective against infantry and light armored vehicles, it is considered fairly ineffective against targets bigger than mecha; Combined field systems or external kinetic dampeners can dull its damage. The M4-2901 is standard issue for the Sylph power armor and is often found with the Lamia and Mindy armors as well.

• Purpose: Anti-armor, anti-personnel
  Damage: Medium
  Range: Up to 4,000m (max 13,000m in atmosphere)
  Rate of Fire: Semi-auto, 3 round burst, or full auto at 900 rounds/min
  Payload: 100 round magazine (or 200 round large magazine). Rounds may be ball (common), hollow-point (most common), armor piercing (rarer), tracers, or dummy rounds for training.

WickedArms Corporation GM-03 Positron Railgun: Cheaper than the GM-02, the rifle allows the mecha to retain its offensive power, but eliminates worry over the GWB's disturbing piercing capability. The GM-03 fires a subspace pulse (to provide shield penetration effects) which is used to provide short-term encasement to a packet of compressed positrons (which are suspended with electromagnetic fields until leaving the rifle). The positrons annihilate electrons they come in contact with, thus destabilizing and destroying molecules, and creating an enormous surge of positive energy through the ship.

• Primary Purpose: Anti-Starship
  Damage: Heavy. Subspace pulse penetrates mecha shields, and has a good chance to penetrate ship shields (especially if they are stressed or damaged by other attacks). The heavier the ship, the less likely penetration is (a huge 3-mile battleship would be all but immune to the fire of a single GM-03).
  Range: 50,000 miles.
  Rate of Fire: Three rounds a second.
  Payload: Thirty rounds per magazine. The mecha carries 4 magazines on the hips and left arm, plus one in the rifle itself. The magazines are volatile, and explosive if ruptured.

Ketsurui Fleet Yards Type W2901 Particle cannons(2): Based on recovered cannons from Mishhu attack pods. Two 4-foot long cannons similar in style to the Kylie's railgun cut through any shielding and matter in a short amount of time. The cannons also penetrate most distortion and repulsion shielding, ignores scalar and "hard" shields, and cuts into even Zesuaium and Yamataium. These are by far the most draining weapon the Sarah has and carry limited ammunition besides. Using these weapons more than once per five seconds will limit the output of other weapons (rate of fire and damage) and could cut into CFS power. The cannons are mounted onto the equipment pack and are closer to the head than the edge of the shoulders.

• Primary Purpose: Anti-mecha
  Secondary Purpose: Anti-starship
  Damage: Heavy. Piercing.
  Range: 0.8 AU (Practical range is 4,000 miles).
  Rate of Fire: Once per five seconds is most effective. Three times per second maximum.
  Payload: 200 shots per cannon. Weapons can be fired independently or linked.

WickedArms Corporation WA-04 Missile Pods: Located on the back of the mecha's shoulders, the two pods snap open to reveal a launcher array. Missiles use subspace flux effects to penetrate shield systems. When not in use, the missiles are protected by the pods' launcher covers.

• Warhead: Multi-purpose Shield and Armor Piercing (MSAP) Available as ARM, SARM, RS, or Guided.
  Purpose: The MSAP Mini-Missile is designed to take out small hard and soft targets at close range.
  Damage: One missile is capable of destroying an enemy drone, gun turret, or small enemy mecha.
  Range: 50 miles
  Rate of Fire: Volleys of 5, 10, 25 each. Volleys can be combined.
  Payload: 25 Mini-Missiles each for a total of 50.

Light triple-barreled Particle Cannons:The light cannon also penetrates most distortion and repulsion shielding, ignores scalar and "hard" shields, and cuts into even Zesuaium and Yamataium, while electrocuting the target at the same time through intense release of positive energy.

• Purpose: Anti-mecha, Anti-Starship
  Damage: Very Heavy on mecha, moderate to heavy on small to average starships, light on capital ships; penetrates solid/scalar shields.
  Range: 1 AU
  Rate of Fire: Nine times per second.
  Payload: Effectively Unlimited

The Kylie's railgun:
Decent range, good damage output, decent firing speed, small ammo capacity.

The Sylph's rifle:
Decent range (only a tad less than the Kylie), decent damage output (better for anti-marine than anti-mecha), excellent firing rate, large ammo capacity.

The Lamia's positron railgun:
Good range, excellent damage output, decent firing speed, decent ammo capacity (though ammo is somewhat volatile).

The Sarah's particle cannons:
Excellent range, excellent damage output, very slow firing speed (uncharacteristically so given their design lineage comes from the Mishhu pods, which have no such difficulty), large ammunition capacity (though I'm totally in disagreement of the 'limited', as the SMX pods use this as a direct fire energy weapon indefenitely).

The Lamia's missile pods:
Good range, good damage output, firing rate at pilot's convenience (I'd say good), and decent ammo capacity (mini-missiles are guided and the AIEs can be used to launch them in a fire-and-forget manner, but they can also be shot down. Offensive mini-missile swarms are cool).

The Cougar's light particle cannons:
Excellent range (superior to Sarah particle cannons), Excellent damage output, good firing speed, unlimited ammo capacity (the Cougar's weapons are an accurate port of the Mishhu pods).

...

The Cougar's weapon trumps all the rest, but it's triple barreled - a single cannon version would fire at the same speed as the Kylie and Lamia railguns... but it still would have the edge on range and unlimited ammo usage. The Lamia's positron railgun and missile launchers are very good. The LASR fires the fastest, the particle cannons fire the slowest, but they fire very far. The Kylie is very close to the Lamia's railgun, but lacks it shield piercing potential, ammo capacity and range.

Bear in mind that the Cougar particle cannon, it's inferior Sarah analog and the Lamia positron railgun shouldn't be useable in atmoshpere, while the Lamia mini-missile pods and Kylie railgun would. This should bear consideration.

The Kylie's railgun is the best all around weapon and the best one in an atmosphere. The light particle cannon would be best in space. the mini-missiles perform well about anywhere.

 

[Zakalwe]

Uhm, I don't know. While the parrying system sounds cool, I don't think that it would be much practical use unless you could parry the effect in flight - which is nigh on impossibe with a light speed beam.

 

[Fred]

Pilot action/reaction speeds aren't going at the speed of c. If you raise and point a gun at me, the odds are the if I'm aware of it, I'll be able to raise my forearm to parry before you can press the trigger and hit me. Regardless of the results of the first attack, I'll probably keep my forearm ready to shield me in subsequent attacks and try tofind an opening in your firing rates to fire my own attacks.

 

[Zakalwe]

But that certainly doesn't counter the ability to quickly move and fire a gun, or for something with a targetting computer or something like a targetting computer for a brain (i.e. a Neko) from shooting around the small part you are parrying, or in fact use your parrying as a diversion to aim for another part of your body now less protected.

 

[Fred]

Wrong. It can. Skin vision, AIES/SPINE connection and intuition can certainly help to figure out what the impact point would be.

We're going in circles Zakalwe. Granted weapon speeds can make parrying tricky, but as long as events are based on actions/reactions, that kind of stuff is possible and makes landing a succesful hit just as tricky. We happen to both be right here.

Don't debate the tech with me; I know an all around shield would make more sense... but parrying allows for player action that's much less cold than a static barrier. From a roleplaying angle, this is rather valuable and there have been zesuaium shields out on power armor before, so, there's even precedent.

 

[Zakalwe]

Agreed. As long as the area covered by the shield is relatively large (not just the fore arm). It should be valuable, and an essential energy saving move.

 

[Cora]

Improving the Mindy?

More like mothballing the Kyle. Amirite?

 

[Vesper]

For this parrying buiness, let me provide a scenerio to prove how it is of very questionable practical usage. In this scenerio we have two armors, both of nearly equal capabilities in terms of reaction speed and such like, one with a gun, the other with the parrying shield. At this particular moment, they are currently facing each other exactly 2,000 meters from each other (figurativly nose to nose for space combat).

The gun wielding suit shoots at the other one, but the he, seeing that the first was aiming at his neck (or more correctly, his computer noticed this), manages to parry it. This bothers the first user, that rat bastard and his damn shields!, and he pulls off another shot right after the first, not really taking time to re-aim at a new spot, essentially pulling of a double tap.

Now, due to his flawed, organic neuvrous system he moves the gun a little bit in the short time between shots. Not much, just a single arc minute, only 1/60th of a degree. The tip of his 0.5 meter gun barrel only drops 1.5 milimeters, nothing to worry about. However, the laser shot hits the second guy almost halfway down his suit, a good 60 cm from the first shot. The unlucky sap in the second armor, reacting to his suits warning, tries to move the arms down but cannot move them the proper distance in the 6 millionths of a second before the laser bolt hits.

Poor bastard won't be having children again.

 

[Fred]

Yeah, but Mindy power armors, when piloted by a neko, can pretty much move about as fast as the user thinks (and given the NH-29 nekos computer-like mind, that's fast). Moving the arm isn't the only thing the user can do. The neko could only make a minor adjustment of the forearm shield and just duck to intercept the blow if she was standing on land; or just hover down to intercept it with the forearm (though I'd just move out of the way *shrugs*).

However, since that sort of feat would be pretty difficult to maintain against successive hits from a weapon that would have a firing rate of 500 shots per second with the minute movement a living person would make (amplified by the great distances which would widen the distance considerably at the impact point), it seems likely to me that the forearm shield would project a considerably larger barrier which would likely cover around 120 degrees by 120 degrees from the centerpoint of the suit with the center of the dome created likely directed in relation to the position of the forearm.

Here, I'll let Bob show you.

Bob, a cheap biped skeleton from 3d studio Max, raises his forearm. With a crummy 45% sphere centered in the middle of Bob and oriented toward where his forearm is raised (about), it looks like his little barrier shield might do a good job of deflecting attacks from the direction he's protecting himself from.

Do you see a big opening? I sure don't. Looks like it could do it's job well.

Hey, he could even perform decently with a 20% sphere. That can't be so bad.

 

[DocTomoe]

What I figure from Fred's last post is... we need weapons that envelop the target on contact thus making the shield pointless. B)

 

[Fred]

Not necessarely. Distortion-based shielding doesn't block an attack - it's not a barrier that absorbs attacks like the shields in Star Trek, but rather dampen and deflect incoming energy attacks a lot like the distorsion field in Martian Successor Nadesico.

Distortion Field

An energy shield designed to protect the Nadesico from energy and gravity weapons. It only has a limited effect on physical attacks. The fields are projected warps in space, bending light, gravity, radiation, and reality to deflect or scramble oncoming objects.

So, you might block and attack and lessen it's damage potential, but if it was a direct enough hit, the attack might not be deviated enough to avoid the unit and it could still score a hit.

Like so:

The Lamia Jo had in her sight turned to fire a salvo of mini-missiles at her. Luckily, the trees took most of the impact as Jo weaved about the large branches to use them as cover. Unfortunately, wood posed little impediment to an aether beam and one crashed right into her Mindy. Luckily, Tasuku had outfitted her with the same barrier module Kotori had and the killing ray was deflected upwards, only mildly smelting the armor on the side of her helmet.