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Mishhu Question

Amaryllis

Inactive Member
I gotta ask, what are the faction stances on Mishhu?
What will factions do when they encounter peaceful Mishhu that surrender or are just living somewhere away from non-Mishhu minding their own business?
Can Mishhu get citizenship anywhere? Do they all get killed or imprisoned by default?
Would anyone ever allow them to vote?
Would any factions let Mishhu keep their tentacled bodies or would they be forced to transfer to something else?
I'd like to write a Nepleslian planet where all the peaceful Mishhu and Mishhu prisoners can go and live relatively safe from persecution in exchange for colonizing the planet themselves.
 
You know, I actually brought up something related to this to Wes recently... as in what if former NMX Mishhu prisoners or parasited/infected people regained their freedom from their control and would be discovered living somewhere in a former warzone as best they could relatively non-threatening. But he shot it down for the most part, as he intended them to be hardcore, fearsome enemies of the universe. Perhaps for the actual monstrous ones this holds true because they thrive on terror and fear for the most part, but I'm sure for their "thralls" it is much less so.
 
I'd also like to ask if there are Mishhu that like ants are basically genetically programmed to be workers instead of fighters and if that's so wouldn't you potentially want to spare them?
What happens when soldiers visit Splrug?
 
That'd be a hard sell.

I know Wes actually introduced independant mishhu in his plot. So it's not like there wouldn't be any exceptions; albeit those exceptions would likely be on frontier areas where misfits already gather.

The Original Mishhuvurthyar were creations of PNUgen (the NH-19) just as much as the neko were, but they pretty much were 'biological hovertanks' and their tentacles were flexible manipulator limbs otherwise with the same kind of minds as neko, though they were very barebone soldiers in the wee beginnings. But the Mishhu weren't an original idea; they were based off an alien creature that PNUgen kept captive in order to study and emulate its capabilities.

Eventually, this alien 'progenitor' broke free of captivity, and it intended to do the same for its unwanted offsprings as well, but the NH-19 were singularily loyal. They didn't have the will to resist - despite thier ability to think, programming shackled even their very will. So, the progenitor gave them the ability to resist. Using powerful psionic powers, it altered them so that they could be moved to feel outraged at how they were treated and then be capable of hatefully lash out and strike out on their own.

Supported by their progenitor race, the Umbral, the newly renamed mishhuvurthyar formed themselves their own military based on a fleet of test ships PNUgen had crafted for it's new private army and then turned against its creators to enact the "Doctrine of Retribution". They had been enslaved, tormented and experimented on, and they would visit that back against thier creators. The error, though, was that this revenge was not enacted against PNUgen alone, but rather the entire human species. That's how the First Mishhuvurthyar War began.

It ended with the leader (and progenitor) of the Mishhuvurthyar trying to make something more of her offpsring than hateful creatures. It was easy for the Mishhu to hate, it was familiar and comfortable. The desire for retribution eventually abates when the target of that vengeance is sorry, and that leader sought an arrangement to have Yamatai display sufficient 'contrition' to make the Mishhu think they'd won and be satisifed with it. However, between lacking diplomatic overtures and the Star Army's determination that abasing itself such would be an unacceptable loss of face. That fell through, and then the first Mishhu war ended with the SMX forces pulled back.

That interlude lasted for a bit, and in the meantime a significant faction amongst the Umbral had been made to think that the Doctrine of Retribution had been 'too gentle', 'too roundabout' toward humanity... which was increasingly made to look as harmful vermin. So, they instated the "Doctrine of Annihilation" and sent in 'new exterminators'. They took some portion of the Mishhuvurthyar and, figuring they didn't have much use for their potential to be individuals, made them same thing PNUgen did to them - they turned them from being predators-turned-soldiers and back to being literal monstrous warmachines. Though 'leaders' could still develop, their individuality was heavily downgraded to a level near to a soldier ant. Those are the Neo Mishhuvurthyar.

In my opinion, the original NH-19 based Mishhuvurthyar are fully capable of being functional sentient beings, though they have to fight both predatory/territorial urges, a strong sense of competitiveness, and a relatively sinister upbringing. After all, they come from places that teach them to scrape for every priviledge/survival from the moment they hatch, and then they have to be competitive and show it off to gain prestige and advance in their society... which involves having slaves, hurting them, implanting eggs to have more offsprings under it, and having for nest a mound of all the bones of its victims. They generally like hurting people, like dominating/controlling them; and a bit like Drow Elves in D&D, it'd take a lot of circumstancial rationality to fight through that.

Whereas I don't see the Neo Mishhuvurthyar as capable of doing the same. They'd lack that quality the nekovalkyrja/Mishhuvurthyar share in being able to be versatile enough to have 'lives' due to be too centered on the purpose of being a war machine.

It's like... the neko are dolphins, the Mishhu are orca whales and the Neo Mishhu are killer sharks. You'll see the former two do tricks at marine centers. The dolphins will generally be more cooperative/less prone to turning on you. The orca really had to be tamed to be worked with because, in nature, humans are food to it. The killer shark doesn't give a damn - if something bleeds and it's in water, it will tear it apart becuase it's just that simple for the shark.
 
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Ugh, I really dislike the way the 'Advanced' Neo Mishhu looks like - those dangling guts and tentacle layout poorly match what the classical mishhu looked like

I'm no Alex Negrea, but I'm probably going to have to make an Umbral/classic-mishhu rendition one day. It's not like I'm incapable of concept drawing.

Oh wait, I did have this from a long time ago.
t1mishhu.webp
Eww. Though this was drawn in a cheap paint application in that old chat application we used to employ for our Joint-Posts. With a mouse.
 
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I totally agree, Fred. I know I don't have my own copy of the placeholder art I did for the Neo Mishhu when I wrote them up, so it's too bad it looks like the ones I had on the wiki are gone now, but the Advanced type did look a lot more like that the art they ended up with.
 
That was really informative Fred; I enjoyed reading your post. And the art is a nice reminder of their origins too, especially with the ears. The drape-like way it has its tentacles hanging from it is also very flowing and lively in comparison to the shorter ones we have on the Neo version. Still, do you think a 'Command Mishhu' - or any other who's job is to think - be able to go far outside the box enough to become a sympathetic character from an OOC point of view?
 
Still, do you think a 'Command Mishhu' - or any other who's job is to think - be able to go far outside the box enough to become a sympathetic character from an OOC point of view?

I would not do it, because it's not the kinds of theme I'd pursue as a GM.

Bear in mind that Wes hasn't come in here yet. I have a history of taking vague one-dimensional elements and fleshing them out, and while the result could look more credible it may not be quite what their creator intended for them. I fully expect Wes to walk in at some point and say "the wiki article says the Neo Mishhu is superior in all things and Fred's interpretation is wrong".

I'm going to at least explain my point of view.

Yamatai calls the Umbral and Mishhuvurthyar 'pure evil'. It's nice propaganda talk, but if we take a step back, everything that modeled the SMX as a military is mostly patterned after the Star Army of Yamatai.

The SAoY used limited (enslaved) bio-engineered soldiers. The Star Army of Yamatai was responsible for annihilating a handful of sentient races that were in some way opposed but unable to stand up to them. The Yamatai Star Empire practiced expansion and when they found alien races, it was either "join us or be conquered". Their prime furnisher in biogenetic engineering being PNUgen meant that the society (knowingly or unknowingly) beneficiated from harsh experimentation trials PNUgen did; and sometimes even Star Army Research Administration joined in with things like Project Sweetheart (put hundreds of nekos in a deathmatch and have them fight until you winnow them down to one survivor which will probably be superior).

Wes' characters will tell you that the Umbral corrupted the Mishhuvurthyar. Melisson will explain it as "give them free will and the ability to resist". Melisson herself admitted that the seed of hatefulness the Mishhu had toward Yamatai was something she planted because 'it was needed'.

But then, the Mishhu were still fundamentally different from the Umbral. Umbral are actually hive-colonies of small bug-like creatures whom have both psionic and the ability to altertheir shape to the point where they can fuse with each other and adopt a greater form. The Umbral have hive-minds and have different thought processes. Whereas the Mishhuvurthyar are just like us, a whole creature with a single brain and a sense of individuality. This marks them as fundamentally different from the Umbral, and - in their progenitor's eyes - better suited with living with humanity rather than the Umbral.

Reintegration was always a goal, but it still needed to be communicated that Mishhu were not test subjects or drone soldiers. Fighting is a way of communication, and in order to show how wrong they had been treated, the Mishhu were made to turn against Humanity and visit on them the same things that had been done to them. Except it was twisted, it was made worse. The Mishhu applied this "Doctrine of Retribution" vindicatively and their whole society and how an individual gained prestige amongst his peers became all about how well this was applied. Also, since the Umbral - as hive-mind creatures - did not have a good understanding of individuals, they made the mistake of believing that if Yamatai profitted from all the advances PNUgen provided that they also approved - by association - the horrific things PNUgen had done as well. Ignorance was not an excuse, and since the Umbral did not have a good grasp on human emotion (and suffering), neither did compation or sympathy enter the picture when the punishment seemed unfair.

So the Doctrine of Retribution was blanketed over all humanity. Eventually, 'humanity' stretched to 'all humanoid creatures'. We could say that then, the Star Army of Yamatai became in the right for protecting their innocent populace from an alien invasion. But, at the same time, the Umbral and mishhuvurthyar were on a punitive crusade to punish what was tantamount to an harmful 'interstellar bully'. They had compelling reasons to feel 'in the right'. To revel in the suffering they brought because the Yamataians deserved it.

As the end of the first mishhu war approached, Melisson - an Umbral interpreter - was sent to try and get Yamatai to surrender to the Mishhu to end the war. That was because of Umbral politics. The "Doctrine of Retribution" had a finite span of time. It was not the only doctrine proposed, but it was followed in favor of not eliminating humankind and just showing it the error of its ways. The Doctrine of Retribution was running out of time and had not yielded enough results toward subduing Yamatai or securing a home civilization of the Mishhu in which they would not be thrall to another. Unfortunately, Melisson failed and rather than expose the Mishhu to more fighting for one more year (in which Yamatai showed itself ready to go for 'scorched earth' tactics to counter the SMX) she had her forces withdraw until the next doctrine could be decided on.

The next was the "Doctrine of Annihilation". Behind the drive of an Umbral Elder named Reiaz, the Umbral kind of went "fuck it, humans are not worth so much bother; we ought to just wipe them out like the harmful vermin they are". Eventually building a place-to-be for the Mishhu stopped being a goal and, based on how it had become comfortable to hate for the Mishhu, the pro-Annihilation Umbral elders had them changed into 'better' war machines. Stronger and better controlled. Being better controlled - to me - meant they'd lost something they were trying to achieve all along and that diminished them. Being a smart command-type doesn't really change that they'd only be suited for military life and that adaptation to civilian lives would require repurposing what it's made to do (prison warden?) or reduce it to menial labor (waste disposal, yay).

That's where, from the mother's point of view (Melisson a.k.a. Mefpralphra) that her own species aim in this conflict lost its 'morality'. In changing the Mishhu into the Neo Mishhu, the Umbral were becoming just as bad as PNUgen; they were becoming like their own enemy. They really were genuinely stooping down to 'evil' even under their own standards as explorers.

There are still original classic mishhu in a remnant of the SMX somewhere out there, but without Mefpralphra (majority of the body destroyed during the Miharu plot and last major surviving bits engaged/incarcerated elsewhere as "Melisson") all that's left leading the SMX are Mefpralphra's Ghost Mishhuvurthyar offsprings (Ghost mishhu heing mishhu eggs incubated under the direct attention of an umbral) such as Doshii Jun's Mefprenhel in the 44th Fireteam plot. The classic mishhu that were not drawn back into the second mishhuvurthyar war are probably something like 1/5 of the total Mishhu population. They don't go out of their way to attack Yamatai anymore, though they probably would still attack on sight most of the time (they still hate Yamataians, they just understand they cannot build a living that way). Since classic Mishhu in the past have been able to cooperate with fringe elements, I view them as the most capable of becoming part of other societies.

Again, in sort of the "D&D Dark Elf" fashion.
 
Grullyvushhgari.webp

This is Grullyvushhgari, a former military (NMX) Mishhuvurthyar who now controls the planet HX-24 I "Urtullan." He appeared in the YSS Eucharis plot. Urtullan is a fringe system with a domed colony that's filled with thousands of people of all kinds of known and unknown species, including some Mishhuvurthyar. So this is an example of Mishhuvurthyar are capable of working with other cultures and species.

Here's an old image I dug up for Fred. It's the SMX symbol featuring an original-type Mishhu:

smx_logo.gif

Since the "Neo" Mishhuvurthyar are like the NH-33 to the Original Mishhuvurthyar's NH-29 (I mean that the new body replaced the old one and became standard), the term Mishhuvurthyar now refers to the modern ones, much like if you say Nekovalkyrja in YE 37, it's pretty safe to assume you're talking about an NH-33. At this point, it's rare for the "Neo" to be added unless you're being specific, because they're not "new" they're just the standard Mishhu now.

I would also agree with Fred that the old type Mishhuvurthyar certainly still exist in small numbers, but they're much more rare than the modern type.

I don't really see a huge difference mentally between the old-school Mishhuvurthyar from the first war and the Mishhuvurthyar of the Second Mishhuvurthyar War because they were not roleplayed differently in this regard, that I can remember. It was more of a body upgrade to fit the new, simplified reproductive mechanics and artwork.

Also, let's not forget that the NMX was operating under the "Doctrine of Assimilation" where they were attempting to integrate Nekovalkyrja and other enemies into their forces with brainwashing and cybernetic control, as well as copying Star Army of Yamatai tactics and organizational structures.
 
Thanks for the answers guys. When I told Kampfer about my idea to give Mishhu a planet to chill on in Nepleslian space he told me he thought Wes wouldn't allow it, but since it seems fine I'm happy.

I think it'd be worth it to give 'em one to colonize and stay where they get protected by a government that fought them instead of worrying about being attacked by its forces if they met somewhere else in a less favorable situation. I imagine even if Nepleslia was only able to attract a small amount of them they could multiply fast making it worth it and it could work as a public relations thing.
 
I think it's an extremely bad idea to make the Mishhu more accessible like that.

For one, I think it's unrealistic and bashes at suspension of disbelief pretty heavily. Welcoming Jiyuuian immigrants is one thing. Openly giving a place for non-humanoid aliens that are part of a regime that was (and still is) based on exterminating you feels very out of character - even if they've become independents. Unless you tell me that Nepleslian political figures have already been psionically altered to be amenable to this (which was a largely unaddressed danger hinted at after the end of the Miharu plot; though Melisson did not act on it). Mishhu have cause nepleslians a lot of hurting in the past, and that multiplication doesn't come free.

I can accept Wes having created the exception on Urtullan for the sake of making an interesting mission. That held together pretty well, and it built on a precedent set in the YSS Nozomi plot (I'm thinking of the Mishhu henchman Shadow had in his employ - the one whom Yuuko met).

This may sound a bit short, but if I may be blunt: is this to be done to support a plot storyline in some way... or just for the heck of it? Because I can admit that Amaryllis' idea going forward makes an exception be less an exception... and will end up devalueing stuff Doshii and I have been pushing toward. Doshii may be cool with it. I find the prospect inconvenient because I care about the impact a story can pack.
 
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Yamatai and Nepleslia are still at war against the Mishhuvurthyar government (the SMN) and its military forces (the SMX and NMX). There's no peace agreement or anything, so Mishhuvurthyar are still the enemy. From Yamatai's perspective they belong in a POW camp...although there's been some efforts to get POWs to renounce their SMN citizenship, like the Star Army has been doing with some success with the NMX Nekovalkyrja. Although the Second Mishhuvurthyar War is over in a general sense, in a technical sense it's still going, like North/South Korea.

I feel like such an idea would have made a lot more sense back in 2012/2013 than it does now. The Second Mishhuvurthyar War ended with their complete withdrawal of known space and since then, our forces have had years to "mop up" the sector and we've not really found much. So where are you going to find Mishhuvurthyar now that the war has been over for like 3 years? Keep in mind, most of the Mishhuvurthyar in the sector were here because they were soldiers here to kill us, so when their ships left, they left too, because
  1. staying was against orders,
  2. because there's no way to survive without support (staying here would be the equivalent of being marooned), and
  3. because they knew they were in the kill zone and the Star Army would aggressively hunt down any leftovers now that there was no resistance.
Also keep in mind the Hidden Sun Clan, at the end of the Second Mishhuvurthyar War, ended up with all of the SMN's civilian/homeworld-type planets in the sector.

So my question is similar to Fred's: Why is this something that Nepleslia would want? Is there an actual demand for this and where would it come from? These guys blew up your senate and now your senate is going to give them a planet? I would think that kind of idea would enrage the average Nepleslian citizen. If the Nepleslians haven't been able to get over their racism against Nekovalkyrja, how are they going to overcome it for tentacle monsters who turned any Nepleslian they could capture into a zombie, an egg-slave, or canned sausage?
 
I have to side with Fred and Wes on this one. I like the idea of rare exceptions such as individuals and such, but this is too large a settlement that pretty much goes against in-character thinking. If anything, any settlement with numbers of Mishhu in it will likely be outside of Nepleslian space, and even then, the vast majority of the Mishhu would most likely have a hard time on a daily basis interacting with any human neighbors due to urges.
 
It sure doesn't seem to go against in-character thinking to me if people freely admit here that Mishhu can live peacefully. Giving them a containment planet you can vaporize them all on whenever you want to where they work as free labor instead of worrying about them committing terrorist/criminal acts on high population planets that mainly contain Nepleslians/humans sounds smart to me. If they can live peacefully shouldn't all sorts of peaceful first contact type of events have been carried out already? Just because they haven't been roleplayed doesn't mean they logically haven't already happened and just because a plot ends up being the first recorded instance of some major post war diplomatic/social breakthrough doesn't mean it was the first to actually happen.

When can such a planet exist then? How many plots must be finished first?
I imagine time and the universe as a whole moves on whether or not plots show every facet of it doing so hence why years change in real time and we don't vote on when to say another year has passed.

If Nepleslia is the manly man land of freedom where just about anything goes I don't see why this couldn't happen. I see wanting to give Mishhu a reason not to attack your faction as a sensible idea and I wonder why there couldn't be Mishhu living in Nep space already, just spread out. If they don't all get killed or imprisoned then where do the ones Nepleslia encounters go? Do none ever think of trying to live within one of the factions? Why can only a few think that? If one can, many can.

Mishhu being able to live peacefully with other peoples only when it's for the sake of a story may make sense OOC to you guys but it doesn't make sense to me in-universe/IC.
I'd like to think the setting is more than what has already been roleplayed/written.
When people make new planets or factions they aren't popping up out of nowhere IC even if someone only made them a day ago OOC.
 
I see wanting to give Mishhu a reason not to attack your faction as a sensible idea and I wonder why there couldn't be Mishhu living in Nep space already, just spread out.
This detracts from the species' goal of being used as antagonist to any GM whom may need them. They've an OoC purpose, for one, and how dramatic they are hinges on how sinister they can be. I don't think Nepleslia having a corner of a planet stuff with pet Mishhu is constructive to maintaining the reputation of the species itself.

Another factor you may not be aware of:
When I joined SARP and had then-cuddly-new Kotori join a plotship, I ended up on Wes' YSS Sakura. A theme Wes was exploring then was a rebel faction of a mix of pro-NH people (neko, neko-mishhu hybrids and reconciled mishhu) whom sought to change Yamatai (drastically) into a place. Their monicker was the True Nekovalkyrja Empire (hereby abreviated to TNE). There were some complex conspiracy vibes going on... and eventually Wes interest in that direction pettered out. Mine only grew, and I made an entire plot around the theme to tackling the issue.

The focus of Miharu's plot wasn't all encompassing, though. What I tackled was the medium of that drastic change. One of Yui's longstanding (and most potent) rivals, Eve, was at the cusp of being one of the mediums to effect such change. Although the cause their enemies had was a relateable one and that offers to cease hostilities were made, there remained irreconciliable differences and it was Miharu's crew motivation to maintain the peace and status quo that lead to the eventual defeat of that initiative.

One of the spoils of that victory was knowledge of a couple of worlds held by the TNE. TNE worlds! Places where Mishhu and neko lived together in coexistence as individuals without the SMX/NMX/Star Army being involved. It was astounding. It was mind-blogging to find out about those, there was a lot to flesh out in that direction.

While I went on hiatus for a year, that theme was what Doshii Jun made his 44th Fireteam plot about. It revolved all around one of those worlds; Kodokuna. It was that significant. The 44th Fireteam merging with my plot derailed that a bit, but it's a direction we'll be going in. Not the next mission, because that in that one I need to introduce my plotship. But definitely the one after that.

So, when I look at the idea you outlined, Amaryllis... it's kind of like having two full glasses of wine, and then a third drinker comes in and wants a glass too. Dividing the wine we have doesn't make for full glasses, so we have to add water to bring them back up to full. So now, we serve three glasses of wine, but not of as good a quality. I don't want to see the value of approachable Mishhuvurthyar cheapened or otherwise presenting what I set out to depict will have less impact.

If you have an actual playerbase that you're going to entertain with your concept, I will shut up. Because some other GM's players have just as much right to be as well entertained as mine are. Like Wes did with Urtullan, for example (despite how I significantly fleshed out the Mishhu, I don't have much room to veto their creator anyways >_>; ).

But, if this is going to be something on the level of "I think it should happen"... well, I have my reservations on that.
 
While this idea may detract from the idea of Mishhu being antagonists for you, I see it as strengthening the idea that Mishhu can be more than antagonists and organic people instead of monsters. To me this isn't a net loss. Heck, they can be seen as much more potentially well rounded antagonists that are more like monstrous humans/people than human-like monsters. To me it's strengthening Mishhu as antagonists because people don't want boring antagonists, they want ones with character and never surrender never negotiate characters can have plenty of personality but Mishhu can have even more when they aren't so strongly thought of that way.

And when people say only a small amount of Mishhu would go for my idea I just think back to an article mentioning more than a trillion Neko. If there used to be over a trillion Neko soldiers I imagine there was a similar amount of Mishhu as I've heard they put up a good fight and at one point were winning or seemed to be winning. I know the numbers were retconned and equipment and Neko bodies have been made weaker and weaker but if there are billions of Yamataians now I imagine there are billions of Mishhu or at least there could be. You only need a small amount of such a number to start a colony. Heck, it could be ten thousand or less. Anything is better than nothing on an uninhabited planet.

I also figured the planet could take Mishhu prisoners and if you're a prisoner you might want to be relocated to where all the other people of your kind are. On top of that I wouldn't be surprised if Nepleslia allowed Mishhu aligned Neko prisoners to swap bodies so they didn't have to be sent to Yamatai and the faction could interrogate them in their own space instead of needing permission from Yamatai to visit them.

When it comes to the wine thing I personally don't think I'd care all that much in your situation as I only see it hurting your plot if everyone in it suddenly starts talking about this planet and grumbles they weren't the first to broker some settlement deal.
 
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Given Nepleslia's penchant for guns and things. I hate to say it but if there were a planet in their control that had Mishhu, it would probably be treated more as a hunting preserve than a haven for Mishhu
 
Given Nepleslia's penchant for guns and things. I hate to say it but if there were a planet in their control that had Mishhu, it would probably be treated more as a hunting preserve than a haven for Mishhu
Man, that would be so ballin. Mishhu poachers livin' life on the galactic frontier. Do you know how much sculptures made from psychic space-squid chitin go for on the chartreuse market?

That said, I don't think Nepleslia makes a habit of shooting unarmed, non-hostile sapients anymore. I mean, after we made extinct the snu-snu women Nepleslia Core, that is.
 
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